Grandpasrose, I have read your very informative article on winter protection. I have a few questions with regards to preparing the rose plant for winter. I am talking about HTs. This is the first time I'll be using your method and I want to do it correctly. Please bear with me.
1. Do I wait till the leaves are frozen and fall off before I prune?
2. Do I prune while the leaves are still green and then remove all the leaves before I cover with mulch?
3. Do I prune while the leaves are still green but wait till the leaves are frozen and fall off and then cover with mulch?
Thank you.
Sengyan
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opabinia51
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Some general tips on pruning that will hopefully answer your questions:
Generally speaking we wait until the leaves have fallen before pruning but, depending on your climate the sap in your roses should be hard enough now top prune.
If you chop the prunings up a bit; you can use them in your mulch, they will help to protect the roots of your roses over the winter (it's best to get a nice mulch (I live leaves, usually mulched up with the lawnmower then sprinkle some manure over the leaves).
And no, you don't have to remove all the leaves before you mulch. Mulching is done to protect the roots from winter freezing and the build the soil; adding nutrients that the plant will use for growing in the spring.
About pruning while the leaves are still green: generally speaking no, wait until they have browned. They leaves do this when the weather becomes cold and the plants secrete a horemone (which name escapes me at this moment) that causes the leaves to brown and fall off. This happens when it becomes cold the sap in the wood begins to hard. Plants can bleed if you prune them when the leaves are green.
Generally speaking we wait until the leaves have fallen before pruning but, depending on your climate the sap in your roses should be hard enough now top prune.
If you chop the prunings up a bit; you can use them in your mulch, they will help to protect the roots of your roses over the winter (it's best to get a nice mulch (I live leaves, usually mulched up with the lawnmower then sprinkle some manure over the leaves).
And no, you don't have to remove all the leaves before you mulch. Mulching is done to protect the roots from winter freezing and the build the soil; adding nutrients that the plant will use for growing in the spring.
About pruning while the leaves are still green: generally speaking no, wait until they have browned. They leaves do this when the weather becomes cold and the plants secrete a horemone (which name escapes me at this moment) that causes the leaves to brown and fall off. This happens when it becomes cold the sap in the wood begins to hard. Plants can bleed if you prune them when the leaves are green.
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opabinia51
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Here we go, you live in Alberta.... that makes sense. Okay, yes it will have snowed several times by now, I assume. So yes, definately get those roses pruned and all mulched up.
With your climate, I would think that you would want to have all this done be September 30 but, it's never to late.
Good luck!
(We are having a huge windstorm this long weekend and all unpruned roses are getting pummelled
It's really sad, my father's Dhalia's are entirely wiped out.)
With your climate, I would think that you would want to have all this done be September 30 but, it's never to late.
Good luck!
(We are having a huge windstorm this long weekend and all unpruned roses are getting pummelled
It's really sad, my father's Dhalia's are entirely wiped out.)Sengyan, I think if you read this article you will find the answers. It does say there are many methods. Here's some important highlights.
https://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/roses/winter.html
You only prune what needs to be pruned to be covered.
Newt
https://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/roses/winter.html
One of the ways to protect roses for the winter is to be sure they go completely dormant. To accomplish this, stop fertilizing early enough so growth slows down. No fertilizer should be applied after August 15. To further encourage dormancy, stop dead-heading or cutting flowers after October 1 and allow the plant to form hips.
Their answer:1. Do I wait till the leaves are frozen and fall off before I prune?
The whole idea of winter protection is to keep the plant uniformly cold and frozen all winter and prevent the damaging effects of alternate freezing and thawing. Whatever method is chosen, don't begin covering plants too early. Wait until a hard killing frost has caused most of the leaves to fall.
2. Do I prune while the leaves are still green and then remove all the leaves before I cover with mulch?
Whatever method is chosen, don't begin covering plants too early. Wait until a hard killing frost has caused most of the leaves to fall. ...Before covering, some tall roses may need minor pruning to reduce their height... Prior to covering, remove any foliage or other debris that might harbor disease for the next season.
Their answer:3. Do I prune while the leaves are still green but wait till the leaves are frozen and fall off and then cover with mulch?
To me that means if you aren't going to cover them all the way, prune off any canes that aren't covered. Remove diseased and damaged leaves before covering and after hard frost.Prior to covering, remove any foliage or other debris that might harbor disease for the next season. Before covering, some tall roses may need minor pruning to reduce their height, and tying of the canes together to prevent wind whipping. Pruning, however, at this point should be kept to a minimum.
You only prune what needs to be pruned to be covered.
Newt
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grandpasrose
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Sengyan - I apologize for not responding to your questions sooner. I have been away on a sort of "sabatical" because of illness.
However, it looks like Newt and Opa have done a wonderful job as ever of getting you on track.
I will add a couple of notes though.
First of all Opa, I have a comparable climate, and I just covered my roses last weekend, once they had gone completely dormant. It may be quite cold by air temperature, but the ground still has a certain amount of warmth in it.
In a cold climate, when roses go dormant, the leaves do not go brown, they just fall off still green.
If the foliage has not fallen, it should be removed as you will be inviting disease to your plants next year.
I prune my roses to about 12" and then mulch with about 2 feet of straw and then cover with a dry tarp.
One of the things that kills roses is freezing and thawing so if you cover them from snow and rain so that they stay dry, the roots will not have alot of water in them to freeze and expand, killing your rose.
Best of luck with your roses, and again, I apologize for the delay.
Val
However, it looks like Newt and Opa have done a wonderful job as ever of getting you on track.
I will add a couple of notes though.
First of all Opa, I have a comparable climate, and I just covered my roses last weekend, once they had gone completely dormant. It may be quite cold by air temperature, but the ground still has a certain amount of warmth in it.
In a cold climate, when roses go dormant, the leaves do not go brown, they just fall off still green.
If the foliage has not fallen, it should be removed as you will be inviting disease to your plants next year.
I prune my roses to about 12" and then mulch with about 2 feet of straw and then cover with a dry tarp.
One of the things that kills roses is freezing and thawing so if you cover them from snow and rain so that they stay dry, the roots will not have alot of water in them to freeze and expand, killing your rose.
Best of luck with your roses, and again, I apologize for the delay.
Val
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opabinia51
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This is a good discussion Val,
that is a very old argument that has been debated for decades. To remove leaves are not to remove.
I personally don't remove the leaves (and I rake up different varieties of leaves and add them to the mix as well) because having a healthy ecosystem around your plants wards off diseas.
Leaves have been falling from Roses and other plants for millions of years (what plants do is send their roots down into the soil (for some trees down as deep as 30 feet) and mine the nutrients, bringing them to the surface and depositing them into their leaves.) and the only reason why disease usually follows in our gardens is because we usually have a monocrop of plants and use herbides and pesticies creating a moncrop of fungal and bacterial colonies that reside on the plants and leaves.
This invites diseas, however using leaves, interplanting of plants, are variety of green in your winter mulch will encourage a healthy flora and fauna both on your plants and in the soil and your plants will more resistant to disease and by that much heartier for the winter.
Also, you can make your own or buy an aerated compost tea and spray your plants with this which will inoculate them with a healthy microbial and fungal population that will fight off disease.
that is a very old argument that has been debated for decades. To remove leaves are not to remove.
I personally don't remove the leaves (and I rake up different varieties of leaves and add them to the mix as well) because having a healthy ecosystem around your plants wards off diseas.
Leaves have been falling from Roses and other plants for millions of years (what plants do is send their roots down into the soil (for some trees down as deep as 30 feet) and mine the nutrients, bringing them to the surface and depositing them into their leaves.) and the only reason why disease usually follows in our gardens is because we usually have a monocrop of plants and use herbides and pesticies creating a moncrop of fungal and bacterial colonies that reside on the plants and leaves.
This invites diseas, however using leaves, interplanting of plants, are variety of green in your winter mulch will encourage a healthy flora and fauna both on your plants and in the soil and your plants will more resistant to disease and by that much heartier for the winter.
Also, you can make your own or buy an aerated compost tea and spray your plants with this which will inoculate them with a healthy microbial and fungal population that will fight off disease.
Thank you Grandpasrose for you information. I used the Minnesota tipping method successfully for many years. But age has caught up with me ( 73 ) and I find that method too much for me with 25 roses. The fact that your climate and mine is similar convinced me to switch to your winterizing method. I pruned and covered my roses with compost 6 days ago and then covered with 2 feet of straw 3 days ago and just in time too. It snowed the day after I covered the straw with tarp.The amount of backbreaking labour I saved is incredible.
Sengyan
Sengyan
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grandpasrose
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Sengyan - I so glad to hear that you have found this more labour saving, so that you can continue with your roses for many more years to come. My grandfather grew roses in this climate until he was 93, with a method similar to mine - although I have done a few things to refine it. So you should be able to keep enjoying your roses!!
I myself have over 70 roses, so a method like texas tipping just isn't realistic for me.
Best of Luck with your roses!!!
Val
I myself have over 70 roses, so a method like texas tipping just isn't realistic for me.
Best of Luck with your roses!!!
Val
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grandpasrose
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Opa, I was speaking of actually removing the leaves from the rose plant itself, not the ground. Although, if the leaves already carry disease like mildew, or blackspot, leaving them there will just encourage them to spread.
I agree that leaves (all kinds of leaves)are excellent for mulch, and in fact use them as a large part of mine.
Val
I agree that leaves (all kinds of leaves)are excellent for mulch, and in fact use them as a large part of mine.
Val
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opabinia51
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Yes, but diseases (these diseases) are just an overmanisfestation of an endemic species of fungi which naturally live on the plants leaves and stems.
So, you are not encouragng it to spread, you are leaving where it belongs, in the soil.
The reason why a fungus starts to cause a problem for a plant is because it's balance with other flora and fauna on the surface of the plant become shifted such that the problem fungust populations overtake the other flora and fauna. By constantly using things like herbicides, and fungicides and so on, we are creating an environment on the surfaces of plants where we have only a few species of fungi, bacteria and protozoa; therefore if a disease organism happens to be part of that population, there is nothing to prey upon it and keep it's populations down.
By employing the techniques that I outlined above, there is no need to red yourself of the any leaves with a given fungus explosion on it. This time of year, fungi tend to take over leaves anyway because plants secrete horemones that distend the leaves from the immune and feeding system of plants; therefore any fungi living on the leaves that feed on the plant will begin to take over.
Now, if you have an infestation of powdery mildew or whathaveyou then, remove the leaves and burn them (though spores and not killed by fire).
Leaves have been falling from plants since plants first had leaves and contrary to ccommon belief, leaves to not contribute to disease. Diseases in plants usually occur because there is an imbalance in the ecosystem so, it is more healthy to contribute to the ecosystem rather than take away from it.
So, you are not encouragng it to spread, you are leaving where it belongs, in the soil.
The reason why a fungus starts to cause a problem for a plant is because it's balance with other flora and fauna on the surface of the plant become shifted such that the problem fungust populations overtake the other flora and fauna. By constantly using things like herbicides, and fungicides and so on, we are creating an environment on the surfaces of plants where we have only a few species of fungi, bacteria and protozoa; therefore if a disease organism happens to be part of that population, there is nothing to prey upon it and keep it's populations down.
By employing the techniques that I outlined above, there is no need to red yourself of the any leaves with a given fungus explosion on it. This time of year, fungi tend to take over leaves anyway because plants secrete horemones that distend the leaves from the immune and feeding system of plants; therefore any fungi living on the leaves that feed on the plant will begin to take over.
Now, if you have an infestation of powdery mildew or whathaveyou then, remove the leaves and burn them (though spores and not killed by fire).
Leaves have been falling from plants since plants first had leaves and contrary to ccommon belief, leaves to not contribute to disease. Diseases in plants usually occur because there is an imbalance in the ecosystem so, it is more healthy to contribute to the ecosystem rather than take away from it.
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opabinia51
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Well, the real question is: Do you currently have a problem with powdery mildew?
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If so, then the sure fire way to cure powdery mildew is to spray your roses with an aerated compost tea, a mixture of milk and water also helps.
Both of these methods also work as preventative measures as well.
I would recommend only removing the leaves if you have a serious problem.
Remember that your roses have mined all those nutrients from the soil and when you remove the leaves, you are throwing the nutrients away, therefore depleting the soil (and the plants) of the nutrition. Which, in the long run makes more work for you because you will have to replace those nutrients to keep your roses healthy.
The old owner of our local organic nursery has been growing roses for years and years, and she adds leaves to the soil to feed her roses and they've never looked better, also take note of the organic rose care sticky atop this forum, it's from her.
]
If so, then the sure fire way to cure powdery mildew is to spray your roses with an aerated compost tea, a mixture of milk and water also helps.
Both of these methods also work as preventative measures as well.
I would recommend only removing the leaves if you have a serious problem.
Remember that your roses have mined all those nutrients from the soil and when you remove the leaves, you are throwing the nutrients away, therefore depleting the soil (and the plants) of the nutrition. Which, in the long run makes more work for you because you will have to replace those nutrients to keep your roses healthy.
The old owner of our local organic nursery has been growing roses for years and years, and she adds leaves to the soil to feed her roses and they've never looked better, also take note of the organic rose care sticky atop this forum, it's from her.