opabinia51
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Organic Rose Care

CARING FOR ESTABLISHED ROSES
Try this homemade recipe for knock-your-socks-off roses:

Just before flowering gently work around the drip line of each rose:
* 1 cup alfalfa pellets (stimulates root growth)
* 2 Tbsp. magnesium sulphate or Epsom salts (magnesium assists in
chlorophyll production)
* 1/4 cup rock phosphate (adds phosphorus and sweetens the soil)

When roses start to leaf out in spring spraying them with liquid seaweed
improves disease resistance.

After blooming:
* 1 cup alfalfa pellets
* 2 Tbsp. magnesium sulphate
Mix with 2 gallons of water. Steep for 24 hours.
Water around each rose in a watering can.

By August:
Stop feeding your roses as new growth can be injured in winter




And yes, (to the truests out there) Magnesium sulphate is not an organic compound (there is no carbon in it) but, this post is from the president of my organic gardening club and she is also the propreitor of the only organic nursery in Victoria (that I am aware of) so, based on this, I consider this to be healthy for the plant and the soil.
NOTE: The manure talk below.


MANURES:
It's important to know the source of what you are adding to your soil,
especially in the case of your food garden. I avoid cow and chicken
manure, unless I know the farmer uses organic practices, and has not
been feeding animals with hormone-laced feed and routinely treating them
with antibiotics.

The safest way to go is sheep, llama and horse manure, horse being the
most commonly available and probably cheapest too. This is because
generally the 'pharmaceutical' input for these animals is minimal,
therefore reducing the potential for adding unwanted chemicals to your
soil. Watch out for hay seeds in horse manure, they can sprout and be a
pain. Hogfuel, (not from treated wood), is a good mix with horse manure,
the nitrogen from the manure and carbon from the woodchips makes for
speedy decomposition and good humus formation. Usually sheep and llama
manure is unadulterated, you only get pure pellets, which is why the
cost is greater.

Mushroom manure is a rich, dark, moist mixture of wheat straw, peat
moss, cottonseed meal, gypsum, lime, and chicken litter. This
combination of ingredients is used in commercial mushroom farms to grow
mushrooms. These materials are composted for many weeks and then placed
into a huge room where it is completely sterilized and then the mushroom
growing cycle begins. Strangely enough, mushrooms will only grow in this
mixture for a very short time, usually 18 to 20 days. At this time the
compost has to be removed and a brand new batch will already have been
prepared for the next crop.

I have reservations about using mushroom manure because of the chicken
litter input and the fact that the cottonseed meal is most likely
genetically modified. Cotton, corn and soy seedmeals are all most likely
genetically modified nowadays. Organic seedmeals are the only way to be
sure that you are not contaminating your soil with gm substances.

The Helpful Gardener
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Thanks Opa. As usual, you provide excellent reading and tips 8)

Scott

opabinia51
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You are welcome Scott, thanks for your email address.


A little note on Mushroom manure: the author of the above information doesn't like the stuff because of the cotton seed meal and the chicken manure in mushroom manure.
I have personally used it in the past for growing tomatoes and what not and had no ill effects but, again; for the truists. Mushroom manure is (I guess) not considered to be organic. :cry:
Last edited by opabinia51 on Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Helpful Gardener
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I did not know about the chicken manure, but sometimes very high nitrogen can cause plants to not set seed (flower) because they are pumping out foliage...

grandpasrose
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I'm just adding a bit more information to the organic rose care thread so that it is in the right place.

ROSE TEA

Dry alfalfa is a good slow-release source of nitrogen, but since you will be "digesting" it by letting it ferment in water, the resulting tea is a soluable, fast-acting nitrogen source.
Also, by making alfalfa (or manure) tea, you don't have to worry about weed seeds sprouting from the fertilizer.
In addition to nitrogen, alfalfa supplies enzymes and trace elements that are not present in chemical nitrogen fertilizers.

Alfalfa includes:
Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins
Amino acids: Tryptophan, Aspartic Acid, Threonine, Serine, Glutamic Acid, Proline, Glycine, Alanine, Cystine, Valine, Methionine, Isoleucine, leucine, Tyrosine, Phenylalanine, Histidine, Lysine, Arginine

Minerals (contained in dry alfalfa): Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulphur, Manganese, Iron, Boron, Copper, Zinc.

Directions:

In a full size garbage bin (20 gallons) add 16 cups of alfalfa pellets or alfalfa meal. (4 cups to every 5 gallons water)

Add 1 - 2 cups of Epsom salts (or one quarter to half a cup to 5 gallons)
Add 1 cup fish emulsion.
Fill with water, put on a tight lid. Let stand for one to two weeks until it bubbles with fermentation. Your nose will tell you that it's ready.

Apply alfalfa tea once per month in the spring and summer. You can reduce or eliminate the Epsom salts in later batches.

Stop applying it in the fall, when you want the plants to start hardening off for the winter.

Scoop off the liquid with a bucket and pour a gallon of tea per rose around the base; more for large climbers, less for potted roses and minis.

When you are left with a thick goop of alfalfa in the garbage bin, you can either add half a barrell more water, stir and add the slurry to your roses as well, or add the alfalfa dregs into your compost pile.

I have used this recipe for a few years now, and my roses do wonderfully. You can also add some kelp, bone meal, compost or manure to your tea if you would like - roses like them all!

You should not be feeding your roses any fertilizers of any type, organic or otherwise about 4 to 6 weeks before frost. This gives the roses time to wind down and stop producing new growth that will just get damaged in the winter. Of course, if fall and winter there is anything like it is here guessing when the frost will come is a little hit or miss, so use your best guess. I usually stop fertilizing around August 15.

Certainly keep adding composted material around your roses during the cold season as you are building up the quality of the soil. Make sure it is composted first though, or you will be depleting your soil of nitrogen. Before I cover my roses for the winter, I always mound mine with a big pile of good compost.

Many plants are suitable for the use of Epsom Salts. Chemically, Epsom salts is hydrated magnesium sulfate (about 10 percent magnesium and 13 percent sulfur). Magnesium is necessary for seed germination and production of chlorophyll, fruit, and nuts. Magnesium strengthens cell walls and improves plants' ability to use nitrogen, phosphorus, and sulfur.

Sulfur, is necessary for production of vitamins, amino acids (therefore protein), and enzymes. It's also what gives vegetables such as broccoli and onions their flavor.
However, plants may not show the effects of a magnesium deficiency until it's severe. Some common deficiency symptoms are yellowing of the leaves between the veins, leaf curling, stunted growth, and lack of sweetness in the fruit.

Magnesium tends to be lacking in old, weathered soils with low pH. Soils with a high pH and are high in calcium and potassium also generally have low magnesium levels. Calcium and potassium compete with magnesium for use by plant roots, and magnesium usually loses. Sometimes, a soil test will show adequate magnesium levels, yet a plant grown there is still deficient because of that competition.

VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

JPIXI
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Hiya guys,

Maybe I can suggest for faster ready alfalfa tea, you can blend or cut into smaller fragment. I do that with a deserted fruits blender and the result is immediate, the leaf of the rose shoot out quicker and they are more healthier and strong within a week's time.

Cheers,
Pixi

grandpasrose
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Thanks Pixi for you great idea to quicken the process for those of us who are a little more impatient! You're always inventing something new to make it work better! :wink:
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

JPIXI
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Location: France, Paris

He he he...I have not told you guys my latest invention yet :lol:

It is an old air pump I picked on discarded trash and transform it into battery (rechargable) operated air pump. In this way, I am not oblige to place my compose tea inside my apartment for electricity supply. I can jolly well leave it out the garden for hygene reasons.

Bimbo's idea :wink:
Pixi

grandpasrose
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Ya, some Bimbo!!!
Rappelez-vous, vous sont le docteur rose, pas meurtrier! :wink:
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

The Helpful Gardener
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PIXI is right on there; aeration is the difference between good tea and toxic soup...

grandpasrose
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Aren't her inventions amazing though!! She has a very intelligent mind! I just sit and shake my head in wonder at some of her posts with what she has dreamed up to meet her needs! :wink:
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

grandpasrose
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Recipe for Fish Emulsion

Although there are far more complicated recipes for making your own fish emulsion out there, here is a relatively simple one:

Fish Emulsion

Place the fish remains into a five gallon pail. Then fill the pail about 3/4 full with water.
Stir the contents of the bucket quite well and allow it to stand for a day or two, stirring it when you have a chance to do so. Make sure you place the pail in a spot that animals won't bother it.
After a day or two has passed, carefully strain out the remaining scraps. You can do this by placing a piece of cheesecloth over the top of the pail, and tie it securely to the pail. Use the now-smelly water on your plants as you would any other fertilizer.

Give it a try, your roses will love you for it! :wink:
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

JPIXI
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Location: France, Paris

Hi Guys,

Sorry for delaying my sprays ingredients as I had a very busy schedule lately. Below are 2 sprays formulas I derived from my daily conveniences, therefore you guys can build up your own ingredient easily too.

Points
*****
1-I never uses water other than rainwater or rested water (kept water for 2days). To get rid of the chlorine content.

2-I have a few air pumps I transformed from normal wired to battery operated, hooked onto the water collectors (each 300litres). To provide oxygen and keep mosquitoes away.

Nutrient Spray: (I use every alternate day, when I go around my garden to check on my roses).

1 Litre composted tea.
Two teaspoon of Epsom salt.
(*Difference in my compost tea):
-I blend leaf of all kinds to put into the compost tea at the last minute before I use it. To obtain a greenish solution from the juice of the blend leaf. Esthetical reason :roll:
-I have a habit of keeping the water I use to wash cut fishes and salads throw them into the water collector.

Treatment Spray: (I use weekly, always after sunset)

1 Litre of rested water.
One teaspoon of Epson salt
Half teaspoon of Bicarbonate salt.
Ginger juice (I got it from leftover from ginger juice I add on to my daily fruit juice). To discourage flies.
A few drop of non-fragrant body shampoo. Never detergent for dishes, as it stays on the leaf and eventually burns the leaf of the rose.

My beliefs:
Discipline, consistency and determination. I co-ordinate my garden ingredient in my convenience, a way to recycle them and reduce the quantity that I put into my waste bin.

Cheers,
Pixi

grandpasrose
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I fixed it for you Pixi and removed the two extra posts.
Thanks so much for sending us your instructions for your two sprays. I am sure they will be very helpful to everyone. I know I am going to try it!
Very good idea to re-use the water you use from cleaning fish and salads.
How did you come about using ginger juice in your second spray? I am not sure I've ever heard that one.

Thanks again Pixi - have a lovely day!
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

JPIXI
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Hiya VAL,

I have heard from an old bonsai farmer years ago, that ginger juice can drive pests like ants and house flies away. However, just a very small amount is necessary.

I don't use pressure spray container for the nutrient spray as I have heard the pressure imposed will reduce the micros in the compost tea.

Bonne soirée mon ami!

Pixi

grandpasrose
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Veeeeeery interesting! I will have to try that.
I have always used a hand sprayer on my roses, it makes me get down and actually look at what's going on with my roses as well, instead of just spray a general pressure spray over the whole thing.

Thanks alot for your bit of advice Pixi!
Have a most wonderful day! :wink:
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

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Ginger is also antibacterial...

grandpasrose
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Yeah, I guess I knew that, I just never thought of putting it in the context of my roses! Learnin' every day!!! 8)
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

JPIXI
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Hiya Guys,

I do not know any scientific reasons behind putting ginger, but it does work in my garden. This summer it has absolutely no pest after I added ginger juice and one spice which I do not know the name. I will take a picture of it as soon to show you guys.

From the bonsai farmer, according to ancient chinese legend, this spice attracts earthworms and it makes them grow a lot bigger and better. Indeed, after using this spice to my soil, earthworm at least double and they are gigantically huge, long and fat. Average length of 16cm and more than cm in diameter. Maybe this is why it attracts mold to my garden. I have 50 in my compost now, and I feed them with leaf every 5days.

I apologise for my wierd formulas.

Cheers,
Pixi

grandpasrose
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Pixi, Why are you apologising? Your formulas are no more wierd than dumping a whole bunch of toxic chemicals into our gardens, except yours are better for us, and they work better too!!!
No need whatever to apologise, that's what the forum is all about is sharing ideas, and helping each other!

Pour ne pas inquiéter mon penseur ingénieux! Nous aimons partager vos idées. Ayez un beau jour! :wink:
VAL
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

The Helpful Gardener
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PIXI, I am PERFECTLY willing to try your ginger recipe (I love the stuff and usually have fresh in the fridge); it is the toxic goo they are trying to sell me on the TV and the store I have issues with...
:lol:
Scott

JPIXI
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Spray for pests, black spot and mildew

Hi All,

Below is a spray for summer pests/ black spot and mildew.

Ingredients:

1- Bordeaux mixture (In french Bouillie bordelaise), 80 grams
2- Tree fern, "male which has seeds behind feuillage" (In french fougére, in first photo) 0.75litre of extract
3- Stinging Nettle (In french Ortie, in second photo), 0.25 litre of extract
4- liquid Soap (optional)
5- 10 litres of water

*You can extract the liquid of the plant by blending with a small amount of water. Try to apply the spray early in the morning and apply under feuillage as much as possible.

Pixi


[/img][url=https://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fern6jo.jpg][img]https://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5655/fern6jo.th.jpg[/img][/url]Image[url=https://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ortie6ib.jpg][img]https://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5425/ortie6ib.th.jpg[/img][/url]

noreen
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Hi JPIXI,

thanks for sharing you recipe. I've got a couple of questions about it, though.

1) does the mixture have to sit/"stew" for a certain amount of time before it's ready to use? As with rose tea, which needs 2 weeks to mature.

2) How often do you apply it? daily? once a week?

3) could you please explain what Bouillie bordelaise is in more detail? My attempt to translate it failed. :oops: has it something to do with foodstuff? that's the only useful info I got (Bouillie = something cooked). :?

hope you don't mind me asking such questions :oops:

oh, and the first picture somehow doesn't work. But if it's the common fern that grows everywhere, I know what it is. :)

Thanks again

noreen

JPIXI
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Hi Noreen,

I have attached the photo of the fern again. It was due to broken linkage.

[img][url=https://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fern5dw.jpg][img]https://img477.imageshack.us/img477/5239/fern5dw.th.jpg[/img][/url][/img]

Bouillie bordelaise (Bordeau Mixture in English) is discovered in the vineyards of the Bordeaux region of France, Bordeaux Mixture has been used as a fungicide for more than 100 years. Use it to prevent and control fungus on grapes, apples and peaches and against blights on some vegetables and perennials. Though made of naturally-occurring minerals, it is poisonous and should not be applied at rates greater than those recommended. You should be able to find it on the shelves of gardening column in big supermarket or gardening stores.

I usually use baking soda in early spring to replace Bouillie bordelaise. However, as the weather and temperature is more and more favorable to pests, I use Bouillie bordelaise from June to late summer. You can apply the spray every 10 to 14 days. The optional mild soap adds on to hold the substance longer to the feuillage.

The fern shown is indeed very common in everywhere. However, please only use the male fern (with seeds underneath) which release a hormones that drives away the destructive female pests. The fern is a very useful herbs that can kill a kind of rose bulb cutter pest that love to "chop" off the going to bloom flower. No one can tell you how heart ache it is to see a headless sterm with the bulb chop off by this pest.

Noreen, please ask all you wanted, we are all here to share and help each other. Probably, we are a closer situation than the rest as we both are in EU.

Have fun pal.

Pixi

noreen
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Hi JPIXI,

thanks for your answer. :-)

I'l see if I can find Bouillie bordelaise somewhere. Or I'll simply restore to baking soda if that's working, too. The only persistant problem I have are aphids anyway. Until now we never had much trouble with fungus, so maybe I can save the heavy waponery for any real emergancy ;-)

Luckily we have a spot where fern is growing really dense, so I'm continually suplied with it. I just have to check if there're any male plants at all. But I remember seeing knobbly things on the underside of the leaves in the last years.

regards

noreen

lefty317
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Location: st. louis, missouri

hi all,

while new to this forum, i have been hanging around others for quite some time. i find it interesting that no one on this thread has mentioned the benefits of adding spent coffee grounds to their rose beds. the are a good organic source of mild nitrogen, very slightly acidic, and attract worms to keep soil loose.

chris

Mstrain
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lefty317 wrote:hi all,

while new to this forum, i have been hanging around others for quite some time. i find it interesting that no one on this thread has mentioned the benefits of adding spent coffee grounds to their rose beds. the are a good organic source of mild nitrogen, very slightly acidic, and attract worms to keep soil loose.

chris
Funny you should mention the coffee grounds. I learned of this method five years ago. You're absolutely correct. Especially about the allure to worms.
Michael
Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

Archiedixon
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Location: canada

hey..the provided tips are really very useful. These will help a lot to establish my garden more beautifully. Seriously, thanks a lot..........!!!!!

KTedham
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Location: Carlisle, UK

Great info. Thanks, just got a couple of questions though. :)

Can the coffee grounds be put on top of the soil or do they have to be mixed in?

Also, how do you use the air pump to get air in the soil? Does it have to be buried under the plant?

The Helpful Gardener
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No KT, they are making a "tea" for the roses and aerating it so it doesn't go anaerobic... :lol: Not the soil, my friend, the tea...

And yes, surface applications are fine...

HG
Scott Reil

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