tenderloingardener
Cool Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:39 pm
Location: San Francisco

Miniature roses-new to growing roses

I got a miniature red rose plant for my birthday (6 April) and within 6 weeks I had to put it into a larger pot-it's actually 4 plants. I tried to separate them so that I could have one or two plants per pot-but near the greenery the roots seemed just too wrapped up-I was afraid to get too brutal. I got another bloom of about 4 roses, deadheaded those, and then got another growth period, and needed to put them into a bigger pot again! I suspected there was a problem because the soil would feel dry (even pushing under a couple of inches) but I was getting a lot of yellow leaves coming off as if there was too much water. When I de-potted (is that a term? Well, it is now! :) ) I found that indeed the roots were wound around at the bottom of the pot. Once again I found it impossible to separate the plants. They seemed to like their new home, though there was a strange period where I pruned off a lot of the leaves at the bottom and then some leaves fell off some stems and it kind of looked like something drawn by Seuss (which I call Seussian) with a bunch of little leaves sprouting from the tops of bare stems.

Now I have a TON of new leaves sprouting. Sometimes, though, after they start to really come in, they look kind of wrinkly and emaciated. I mean I have masses of new leaves and shoots, but I have very few full grown leaves, and the ones that I do have tend to get brown at the tips or kind of hang down in a rather dispirited manner. I really feel that the plants are overcrowded and need some room. Questions:

a) Am I just being too fussy over my very first roses? After all, I do have 2 buds ripening, and lots and lots of new leaves and shoots coming in. I have a little blackspot, but not to worry about-I think It's due to spraying the leaves-at least that's when it showed up. It was an experiment. I took photos but I am having problems downloading them to my machine, unfortunately. I am just not happy with the way the plants look. It's almost an intuitive thing. They are not even close to dropping dead, but they are not super smiley either.

b) Assuming this feeling that the plants are overcrowded is not nonsense, how do I go about separating the plants? Am I just being too delicate and gentle? What about putting the de-potted plants in a basin of water to get the maximum amount of soil off before the surgery? Is it really that big of a deal if some root systems get damaged or cut? These are going to have to be "contained," I have no manner of yard to put them in, but re-potting in bigger and bigger containers is of only marginal help if the plants themselves are so close together, right??? That's my logic anyway. They do live outside on a very sturdy ledge that gets a few hours of direct sunlight a day.

Help me please- I'm a total newbie when it comes to roses or any other flowering plants!! :?

Ghetto Gardener

Sunset Zone 17/USDA 10b/ The Tenderloin, San Francisco
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Well, this isn't a great picture showing the entire plant, but it's something...
Well, this isn't a great picture showing the entire plant, but it's something...
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cynthia_h
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: El Cerrito, CA

Well...in a way, yes, you are being a little too genteel with these fair roses. :wink:

Would it help if I said blackberries are a member of the Rosaceae family? The same blackberries we find along the roads and in empty lots in northern California? The same blackberries that, even when goats have eaten the vines down to the ground, manage to come back in a couple of years if the roots haven't been dug out?

Yes, those blackberries. They're the cousins of roses. (I have both here at the house and struggle constantly to contain the blackberries within "their" allotted portion of territory.)

My suggestion:

1) Prepare three or four pots, each one the next size up. This can happen any time. Just have them ready.

Then, when you're ready for The Big Dig (preferably *not* when there are buds on the plants--but if they're really this ingrown, you may not have a choice),

2) Soak the pot with the four miniature roses until you can pull the entire root ball out easily, maybe in the kitchen sink. Your description is excellent: "root-bound" or "pot-bound" are phrases often used for this situation.

3a) If you can tease the roots of the plants apart, do so now, while the planting medium is soaking wet.
3b) If you cannot tease the roots apart, use a sharp knife or your pruning shears to cut four lines down the outside of the root ball, 90 degrees apart. (Each line one-fourth of the way around the root ball.) Try again to tease the roots apart; the scored lines may need to be a half-inch or deeper; do what it takes but not much more than that, because it's not adviseable to injure a main feeder root.

4) Now that you have four individual plants--however you got them!--plant each one in its own new pot. :) Do not fertilize, not now and not for at least three or four weeks. Let the roots heal and send forth new root hairs. Fertilizer will stimulate the leaves and flowers, and the top of the plant may get ahead of the ability of the roots to feed it.

5) Water as needed; sounds like you've been doing a good job of that! :D

When you do recommence fertilizing, I recommend using half-strength of whatever you're using, even if it's kitchen fertilizer (coffee grounds and such). It's very difficult to injure plants when using half-strength stuff, and it's much easier to come up with! (ask me how I know...)

Hope this helps; good to hear from you again!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

imafan26
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

I bought a couple of miniature roses. While the roses are perfect for leis or corsage and they are button size, the plants are not. One of the plants a red rose that is practically indestructible. It is a rambler and rambles over twenty feet. I don't feed it, it does get watered, it is not eaten by bugs, doesn't really get any mildew or black spot. I cut it back as often as I can, it is hard because it is thorny and it comes back with a vengeance.
The other rose is a landscape rose called baby blanket. There are a few of them around but while they are rooting themselves in the ground, at least they are staying bush sized about three feet. They also don't get any particular attention anymore and are quite disease and pest resistant.

I wish the hybrid teas had better resistance. They get black spot, mealy bugs and canes die back. I have them near a streetlight so there are no real problems with rose beetles. I love big roses, but they are definitely not as carefree. But, at least I don't have them running too wild and unfortunately for me they are not as easy to propagate.

tenderloingardener
Cool Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:39 pm
Location: San Francisco

Thank you so much Cynthia H. That was very clear, very well written and I can totally see what I need to do. I really appreciate it! :D

I wish the camera was working so you can see them now. YIKES. I never heard of this powdery mildew before. This vile microscopic fungus that by the time you see all white shoots it has eaten deep into the plant! I had no idea I was supposed to be spraying as a preventative-especially here in SF, which, when I read what the preferred environment for this fungus was may as well have read-SF, CA.

I went nuts, in a word. Nuts. Not only did I find a non toxic-ish recipe that, most important of all, I had the ingredients on hand-baking soda and a drop of dish liquid in a large amount of water-I assume the latter is there for making the baking soda fungicide "stick" but I went pruning like a manic Edward Scissorhands. I mean, I had some scarred sticks with a few leaves on the top and on the bottom left. I cut off every deformed, crinkled, splotchy leaf. I went mad I tell you. MAD!!! :>

Now I have a nice pretty healthy shoot that came in with lots of leaves that aren't too deformed, and that's even sporting a little bud. Two plants are coming back a bit better than the other two, which makes the upcoming surgery a little easier. I'm going to do it as soon as the bud is done. Actually-it's really new-this bud isn't even all the way out. I am all jazzed and want to do it tomorrow! Can I :?:

Here's the thing-though we really don't have room for a full sized rose bush this poor thing in the store looked so miserable-it's been kind of my spouses thing, and of course, thanks to the wind it has it too. With just a bit of care this rose took off-more new red leaves than green ones. But his idea of treating is the polar opposite of mine. Do nothing. Which means-for all my efforts, I may as well spit into the wind, right? :>

I have to admit, I'm not liking the soap thing. It's just a drop, but it's so alkaline, along with the mild base of the baking soda-I'm using about 1/4 tea to 32 oz water.

What about Neem oil? There is some controversy about bees, but that study only showed an effect if very large amounts of the oil were used, and you are absolutely of my same mind when it comes to any kind of fertilizer or additive. Especially with potted plants-it's so easy to murder them with fertilizer. "Extra" has no place to go. I followed package instructions on fertilizer for azaelias once and I don't need another lesson! :oops:

Have you found anything that can get this fungus under control? The stuff in the hardware store boasted "non-toxic" on the label, which in the U.S. doesn't mean much. It's active ingredient was sulfur.

You are a Rose Saint already, but if you have any ideas on the control of this pernicious fungal infection, I'd be much obliged. For a while I thought my roses would die. They still look like...not too good, but at least I've learned that they will grow back. Besides, if all 4 plants don't make it-I don't really have room. I was thinking of gifts....

Thanks again Cynthia H.!! O:)

You'll make me a rosarian yet! :mrgreen: I don't have time to preview this, so please excuse the numerous typos and grammatical errors!!! :oops:

In the heart of the city,

Shawna

cynthia_h
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: El Cerrito, CA

Neem is not relevant in treating powdery mildew in roses or any other plant. It's specific to disruption of the insect feeding cycle. So don't worry about it.

New rose leaves are supposed to be red; leave them as they are when they come in. :)

Cutting off the affected leaves was probably a good move; the fact that the plants are still giving you new growth is the proof. :)

That white powdery mildew is a familiar foe in my rose bushes, too; the trio of rust, black spot, and powdery mildew are all visible here. However, this year--when I've actually done the least gardening in several years and left the perennials on their own except for occasional watering--the silly things look almost better than when I treat them for this stuff! :x Oooooh, I just hate it when that happens....

I hope the rest of August and early September saw the little darlings straighten up and fly right, esp. since we had a couple of warmer days, even in ess eff. :wink:

Cynthia



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