What is WRONG with my roses???????

[Laura Davenport]

(I'm an experienced gardener, but this has me stumped, and is new to me)
These are established plants. The newer ones I planted last year and this year seem fine, as do my one "climbing rose" and my one heirloom old fashioned non hybrid non grafted shrub rose. Actually, I have a few shrub roses and they all seem OK so far.

But, and this began summer before last, this is the third year this is happening.

I have four established bush roses, in two separate locations, that are SICK and have been for the last two years and "it", whatever "it" is is back this year. The previous two years only three bushes were affected, this year the fourth, which seemed OK last year.

Here is what is happening. I trim them back in the spring, hopefully after the last frost. This is what most people do here, and this has always worked in the past for me. They start growing just fine, but as they grow they become deformed, with floppy limp canes that end up on the ground and leaves that are either small or smaller then usual and curl in from the sides.

Then come the buds. They look alien. Elongated and thin with the green leaves that cover them until they open extending sort of like horns beyond the top of the bud. There are no flowers, the buds may begin to open, but never open to flowers. Then, last year two of the affected plants never even tried a bud or bloom and they are not trying this year either.

Year before last my landscaper told me he thought it was a fungus. I'd never seen this before; fungal infections are more common in roses in areas where it is hot and humid and where it does not get cool at night. It is not like this in Idaho, but that particular year we DID have some stretches of warm nights. I did as advised and trimmed off all affected areas and applied a topical fungicide. This did nothing, new growth was just the same. So, I was told it was a systemic fungus and tried using the Bayer combo product that is a systemic food, insecticide and fungicide. It did not work either.

Last year I had a local horticulturalist look at them, she told me it was an insect, "thrips", all I needed was the Bayer 2 in 1 granules. That did not work either, and in my desperation I ended up (I think) over treating with combination products as the affected, and treated, roses ended up not even trying to bloom, and one cause of this is over feeding, too much nitrogen.

So......here I am for the third year, watching my roses grow like crazy, but looking like alien invaders with deformed buds and no blooms.

Any ideas????

[Jess]

Hi Laura

The only time I have seen deformed foliage and buds on a rose bush were after a farmer had sprayed a nearby field. Is this a possibility? Could a herbicide have drifted and caused the damage? The fact that it is a similar time of year each year does suggest this.

[Laura Davenport]

It can't be herbicides, it actually started the first year that the last farmland near me was churned up and a new school building begun.

It also hasn't started at the same time. The first year it started midway through the summer. This year and last it has started right off.

Here are my latest thoughts:
I think it is a fungus AND "thrips"....but they must be tough ones.
The weather's miserable here, we've not had anything like spring, it is still cold, we had frost last night, it is rainy and windy today. During a break in the rain I went out and took a good look. I definitely see yellow leaves with black spots ,and dark red leaves and stems....on a white rose.
I have periwinkle(myrtle, do you have that over there?) planted in the beds and IT has yellow spotted leaves, some all black, some dead. Nothing kills periwinkle, it grows in New Foundland and overwinters there as a broadleaf evergreen.

I've been told that the deformed buds are a certain sign of the "thrips" so I went ahead with the Bayer 2 in 1 today. This is what the horticulturalist said ia all I needed, all she uses.
I'm going to skip the systemic fungicide and spray the whole of the beds with soap and water with a bit of chlorine bleach (the local extension service recommended this) as soon as it isn't raining before it gets hot. This is rinsed off after a few hours, I might add. Then it needs to be early enough in the day so it is dry before evening.
Tricky timing !!

[Laura Davenport]

Somebody on another board suggested it might be this:
[url]https://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/IPM.asp?code=104&group=67&level=s[/url]
RRD=Rose Rosette Disease

It is spread by mites from a wild rose variety we have here in the US and is just started appearing in cultivated roses.

And, it is deadly.

My precious roses are going to have to go

[cynthia_h]

The Missouri Botanical Garden article is very alarming. They did give a couple of potential methods of treatment, though: horticultural oils weekly and/or horticultural soaps.

I cannot believe that anyone would INTENTIONALLY use this virus as a means of Integrated Pest Management! It sounds completely irresponsible even to suggest it. My jaw almost dropped to the floor when I read this statement.

I'm so sorry that you may have to take your carefully tended roses out, though. I have eight roses, two of which are Godzilla-strong successful plants. The other six are so-so and always struggle with powdery mildew, rust, and rose blackspot. But they come back and back for me, so I keep them.

Digging them out would be a Very. Bad. Day.

for you.

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

[Laura Davenport]

Well, now I'm not so sure.

This is apparently not in my area, SW Idaho.

We have no R. Multiflora here, nor does Utah.

Maybe I'm back to square one?

And ditto re the Integrated "pest" control thing, not only because it produces a HUGE reservoir of large infected plants that seldom actually die from the infection and leave behind viable seeds if they do..it doesn't even work.

[Jess]

Found this Laura.
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles0801/thrips.asp

Do your leaves look like the ones on this site?
There is a lot of useful information on organic methods of control and did you notice the predatory mites? Might be worth a try if you can get them there.
There was a French member on this forum a while back (JPIXI) who was amazing with rose problems but he hasn't posted in a long time. Perhaps if you can check back through a few posts you might find information he gave of some of his concoctions for sick roses. I know he used things like horsetail but that is all I can remember. Giving your ailing roses a tonic might help them survive the attack from thrips and the possible fungal infection.
Good luck. I hope they survive.