Time to think more permanent greenhouse - looking for ideas

[Chaesman]

Ok My wife and I have tired of fighting with the portable GH to keep it up right and have decided it is time to move to a more permant solution.

Initial thoughts are 12 by 12
treated lumber frame
Then it is on to covering the frame

Well I am leaning towards a corrigated pollycarbonate

But am not opposed to 4 or 6 mil plastic sheating to keep costs down can allways add the poly a little at a time as money frees up and still be functioning in the mean time.

Thoughts on the plastic sheeting are 2 layers one over the frame and one inside the frame so there is a 4 inch air space between the two layers any thoughs???

also will a single slope roof be fine or am I better of with a peaked or arched roof.

Any and all sugjestions will be appreciated Just want the best possible out come over time on a budget.

Thanks

Jon

[soil]

all I can say is look into passive solar greenhouses. you will be much happier with the end results.

also you might want to check out the subterranian heating and cooling thread here in the greenhouse forum.

[Chaesman]

I looked up Passive solar greenhouses as recomended and learned a bit
Accually used missouri university's web site since there info is applicable to my climate.

Here is the link I used Incase anyone needs an indepth explaanation and plans on a sample one they built.

https://aes.missouri.edu/bradford/education/solar-greenhouse/solar-greenhouse.php

Any how If you have more info or a better (More ecconomical) set of plans please let me know 3 grand is a bit out of my price range..

Thanks for the information so far

Jon

[soil]

you don't need plans to make a solar greenhouse. you just need to know the principles and apply them to your area in the way that suits you best. they could be made from wood, concrete, rammed earth, cob, sandbags, all kinds of materials.

https://www.attra.org/attra-pub/solar-gh.html

[bogydave]

12 X12 will be a great size.
Lots of room.
Good luck, my first one was plastic covered the first year.

[barnercora]

My husband bought me a Rion Greenhouse. It is 8.5 W x 25 L and we are almost finish building it. I will have plenty of room to play definitely. w.[img]https://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/barnercora/DSC02463.jpg[/img]

[wordwiz]

I built a 12x16 a couple of years ago and spent less than $700. Used 4x4 posts for the corners and center, 2x4 in between. The top was 13 mil, fiberglass reinforced plastic, the inside layer for both the top and three sides was 4-mill IRAC greenhouse plastic. Got lucky and found glass windows for the front and part of the sides, as well as a glass door. The back (north wall) is OCB board with insulation is the base around the rest of it. I lined the back wall with Mylar, installed a couple of electrical outlets and a switch for lights. Also added a remote thermometer so I can keep track of the temps.

My best laid plans went astray when the winter sun drought hit and we went six weeks with very little light. It was not economically feasible to both heat and light it, at least not enough to grow tomatoes and such.

But this year, I'm using it to raise seedlings in and it works great. One thing I learned the very hard way - make sure you install some kind of automatic vent unless you will always be around to check the temps and open or close doors/vents. It can go from cloudy with temps in the mid-40s to bright and sunny with temps in the mid-50s in a couple of hours. But inside a GH, the temp can hit triple digits - mine got up to 125 one day and I had fried tomatoes!

Mike

[DoubleDogFarm]

Jon,

Could you attach it to your house or be somewhat close? If you don't want to go the subterranean route, you could at least heat your living quarters.

Eric

[Chaesman]

Really don't see ow it would be possible to attach it to the house... Unless and I am open for sugjestions we are looking at putting a large screened deck of our back door the south side of our mobile home. Could encase it with plastic in stead of screen but how would you keep the cold from coming through the deck floor?

jon

[DoubleDogFarm]

Could encase it with plastic in stead of screen but how would you keep the cold from coming through the deck floor?

Ridged insulation on the underside. Fiberglass would get wet / moldy and loss it R value.

If this is a sun room, maybe you lay down a plywood sub floor and tile.

If there's a will there's a way, but it could get expensive.

Eric

[Bobberman]

Thanks for Some good info on the solar greenhouse and phase change material! I plan on something simple but should work great! I am going to have several base board water heaters that will be connected to a set of 5 -50 gallon drums. A syphon hose connnected to each drum will move the water from the main one that is connected to the baseboard heaters! One drum will have water comin in and one will have water sucked by the pump so all will be moving the water! The base board heater finns will collect the heat from the greenhouse during the day and a small pump will pump the heated water into the drums! I figure the drums will gain 10 or more degrees during the day with the heaters absorbing the heat fast.. If I can find some radiators I will use them in the system also!
+++My extra heat source of a 10 gallon electric water heater will be mainly for the sweat chamber!. If I can keep my solar greenhouse above 40 all winter I will do great!

[Chaesman]

The base board heater finns will collect the heat from the greenhouse during the day and a small pump will pump the heated water into the drums! I figure the drums will gain 10 or more degrees during the day with the heaters absorbing the heat fast..

I understand the concept you are trying to achieve but will this work in reality The fins on base board are designed to draw heat from the core and disapate it into the room Not to collect heat from the room other wise everone would circulate there base boards to cool a room down, Following my logic? . My concern would be that you will be spending the water that is getting heated in the barrels rather then adding to the temp in the barrels. I am no expert and could be wrong let us know how this experiment works
jon

[Bobberman]

It can be done in reverse. The pump acts as you heat transfer agent! A radiator works the same way. Our home has radiator heat and is cool in the summer because our baement is cool. A radiator can also work by graviety flow so if a basement pump is not turned on there will stil be some water movement of warmer water.! The fin in the baseboard heater heats quick to the temp of the greenhouse and the circulating water from the pump carries the heat into the drums. The drum water will never get warmer than the temp of the greenhose during the day but only higher than the low night tem.! This sypstem will even cool the greenhouse some during the day! The pumps can be set to run at night when a low temp is reached to put some heat back into the greenhouse plus the drums will give off heat at night also without the pumps!Thanks for that good question or debate but I think in this case I am right but would like more input! !

[Chaesman]

Like I said bobberman I am no expert but would love to know if it works because that would be an inexpensive operating cost to generate some heat in the winter time. I have a friend who works on appliances and ac and heat systems I may have to pick his brain on this options and maybe other options to boost performance Maybe even a small solar panel to power some fish tank heaters to add more heat to the barrels during day light hours. Just kicking around thoughts

The way I see it is if I spend 400.00 upfront for a heat system and all I have to do for the next three or 4 winters is run a small pump I have more the stystem would have paid for itself tenfold

Jon

[wordwiz]

Are you going to be using artificial lighting in your GH? I'm not that far from you but we go through a sun drought from the middle of December until early February. If you are raising low-light plants, they may do okay, but sun-loving plants will just sit there, getting leggy.

Mike

[Chaesman]

realy don't know yet wordwiz I am still in the thinking everything through stage and then I will move onto the beging of planning and scronging for material stage This is going to be my First attempt at a Permant green house and I want to make sure it is thought at as thourough as possible, Planned Well and Executed perfectly. Realy would like to do it right the first time although I know there is a huge learning curve the first time and I will certainly learn things along the way and have problems to fix as well. but I want to make sure it is as perfect as can be.

[Chaesman]

Ok Ran the idea of turning the new back deck into a GH by my wife this morning and she loves the idea.

So we are Offically Starting the Planning stage However Thoughts and Inputs will be appreciated as a lot of thought is still going to need to go into this Project. We want it done right

Here is our initial thought looking out the back door you are facing South SouthEast. The GH will be about 7' 8" from the mobile home out and 8 to 12 ft from side to side. (the 7' 8" might seem strange but the guide wire from our utility pole prevents us from going further out )

We Plan on using 4 x4's in the corners for support Underpining and insulating the lower portion then decking it with marine grade plywood Then Covering the Marine grade plywood with a indoor out door carpet to help insulate. I am currently hunting down to windows I had out back one for the south wall and one for the west wall so we can open for ventelation. I am also trying to hunt down an old storm door with glass windows that open for the east side. The north side will be the exterior mobile home wall. The thing my wife likes about this idea is January getting to step from the mobile home directly into the green house with no need to face the elements at all since the back door will be inside the green house.

Well that is where we are at for right now. Any Thoughts or ideas at this point?

Oh we will be using pressure treated wood to help prevent rot.

Last thought around August first we will be budgeting 400 to get this project jump started till then Planning and cleaning and leveling the back area it has been used for remodling in the past and needs a bit of thourough clean up.

Jon

[soil]

sounds like a great idea. not only will you have a nice greenhouse. the solar heat collected can be transferred inside your house for heat in the winter. so on any sunny days you don't need to use whatever you use now to heat your house.

if you do some searching there are some pretty good websites detailing lean to greenhouses. just ignore the premade version sites and look for the information websites.