Hello,
I noticed the other day that my purple coneflowers are starting to drop their leaves. I have some black-eye-susans in the bed too. A few of those must have self seeded from last fall.
This year I would like to put some seeds along a new stretch of garden on the west side of my garage. I have read that it will take a plant from seed two seasons to grow well.
My question to you is, when and how is the best way to harvest the seeds as well as when to plant them!
I live in east central WI zone 4.
Thanks,
Jenny
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jennymisek
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opabinia51
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Well, once you see the seed pods on the plants, I usually leave them for a few weeks to acquire more sugars and what not and dry out a bit. Then, it is as simple as plucking the seed pods off the plants.
I have found that it is easiest to start the seeds indoors in about february and move the plants outside to harden them off in early spring after the last frost. Then it is as simple as planting the plants.
(Though, with my tomatoe plants, it is as simple as allowing a few fruits to fall to the ground and they will reseed themselves). A lot of other flowering plants will also do this and then, all you have to do is transplant the seedlings next spring.
I have found that it is easiest to start the seeds indoors in about february and move the plants outside to harden them off in early spring after the last frost. Then it is as simple as planting the plants.
(Though, with my tomatoe plants, it is as simple as allowing a few fruits to fall to the ground and they will reseed themselves). A lot of other flowering plants will also do this and then, all you have to do is transplant the seedlings next spring.
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jennymisek
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opabinia51
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Plants started indoors lack proper lighting/air conditions and are exposed to wide shifts in temperature that make them unhealthy. That's why moving them outside to "harden them off" is a good idea.
When I start tomatoe seeds indoors, they are always straggly but, after moving them outside to harden them off, they become nice and strong. Of course the benefit of starting plants indoors is that you can get a jump on the season!
Good luck, and hopefully someone with some experience with propagating cone flowers will post something in your thread soon.
When I start tomatoe seeds indoors, they are always straggly but, after moving them outside to harden them off, they become nice and strong. Of course the benefit of starting plants indoors is that you can get a jump on the season!
Good luck, and hopefully someone with some experience with propagating cone flowers will post something in your thread soon.
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jennymisek
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opabinia51
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grandpasrose
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It is possible to create more purple coneflower plants by digging up large clumps and dividing them into several smaller rooted plants, but their deep taproots do not take to this very well. The new plants may be bushier and develop fewer flowers. The alternative is to allow existing plants to seed themselves.
Leave some faded flowers on the plant well into fall when their dried centers release seed onto the ground around existing plants. Do not disturb the soil over the winter. Look for new seedlings the following spring and dig and transplant them.
You can also save some of this seed by waiting until the flower has matured and formed it's seed, but it has not begun to dry yet. Then loosely tie a paper bag (it must be paper so that it can breath and not get moist) over the flower. It will not matter if it gets rained on.
When the seed is ripe, it will burst from the plant into your bag. If you are too impatient for mother nature to burst the seed itself, you can try giving the bag a shake every once in a while and seed may pop into the bag.
Purple coneflowers can be started from seeds indoors in late winter for transplanting in the spring. They will bloom later in the same season.
Hope this helps you out!
VAL
Leave some faded flowers on the plant well into fall when their dried centers release seed onto the ground around existing plants. Do not disturb the soil over the winter. Look for new seedlings the following spring and dig and transplant them.
You can also save some of this seed by waiting until the flower has matured and formed it's seed, but it has not begun to dry yet. Then loosely tie a paper bag (it must be paper so that it can breath and not get moist) over the flower. It will not matter if it gets rained on.
When the seed is ripe, it will burst from the plant into your bag. If you are too impatient for mother nature to burst the seed itself, you can try giving the bag a shake every once in a while and seed may pop into the bag.
Purple coneflowers can be started from seeds indoors in late winter for transplanting in the spring. They will bloom later in the same season.
Hope this helps you out!
VAL
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jennymisek
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opabinia51
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I don't know. I'll look purple cone flower to see what it looks like.
.......... Sure enough, I googled "Purple Cone Flower" and "Purple Cone Flower: Echinacea" came up in the results. I'm pretty sure that you can divide the roots like Val recommended with Echinacea. I know that the roots are used for medicinal purposes.
The seeds, I'm not so sure about. To be honest, I've never seed Echinacia flowers actually go to seed. The flowers are so robust that I am thinking that maybe, once the petals have fallen off, perhaps what is left the seed?
I don't really know. You could try a google search for Echinacea propagation.
.......... Sure enough, I googled "Purple Cone Flower" and "Purple Cone Flower: Echinacea" came up in the results. I'm pretty sure that you can divide the roots like Val recommended with Echinacea. I know that the roots are used for medicinal purposes.
The seeds, I'm not so sure about. To be honest, I've never seed Echinacia flowers actually go to seed. The flowers are so robust that I am thinking that maybe, once the petals have fallen off, perhaps what is left the seed?
I don't really know. You could try a google search for Echinacea propagation.
Yes, purple coneflower is Echinacea Purpurea.opabinia51 wrote:I don't know. I'll look purple cone flower to see what it looks like.
.......... Sure enough, I googled "Purple Cone Flower" and "Purple Cone Flower: Echinacea" came up in the results. I'm pretty sure that you can divide the roots like Val recommended with Echinacea. I know that the roots are used for medicinal purposes.
The seeds, I'm not so sure about. To be honest, I've never seed Echinacia flowers actually go to seed. The flowers are so robust that I am thinking that maybe, once the petals have fallen off, perhaps what is left the seed?
I don't really know. You could try a google search for Echinacea propagation.
The root is the medicinal part, and it can be divided after three years. I'm told you do not want to divide it sooner than that. Four years to five years is even more encouraged for division.
Root division can be used with all members of the Echinacea family, but it is most effective with Purpurea.
I've read it is hard to collect your own seeds from the garden - for whatever reason, they are not as hardy as those propagated from divisions. I'll do some digging and try to find out why that would be.
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grandpasrose
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Coneflower (echinacea) can also be propagated by tuber cuttings as well.
Seed collecting probably is felt to be more difficult because there are certain steps required with coneflower seed to make it germinate.
The seed is not ready to be picked from the plant until the flowers dry down in September or October. The seed is contained in the cone shaped centre of the flower. It is removed from the cone with a bit of a nudge or squeeze from the bottom out. There is no need to worry about any chaff that comes along with it.
Another way to collect the seed, it to tie the brown paper bag around the flower, wait until it has dried down, and then cut the flower from the plant. Shake the flower, still inside the bag several times. Open the bag, and several of the seeds should have released themselves into your bag!
The seeds should probably be left to dry a little more in a warm sunny spot for few days to ensure there is no dampness left in them.
The seeds then need to have some stratification time (left to freeze in the freezer) for a few weeks before starting to germinate them.
Coneflower seeds take between 10 and 20 days to germinate.
Hope this helps and you have a bountiful crop of coneflowers!
VAL
Seed collecting probably is felt to be more difficult because there are certain steps required with coneflower seed to make it germinate.
The seed is not ready to be picked from the plant until the flowers dry down in September or October. The seed is contained in the cone shaped centre of the flower. It is removed from the cone with a bit of a nudge or squeeze from the bottom out. There is no need to worry about any chaff that comes along with it.
Another way to collect the seed, it to tie the brown paper bag around the flower, wait until it has dried down, and then cut the flower from the plant. Shake the flower, still inside the bag several times. Open the bag, and several of the seeds should have released themselves into your bag!
The seeds should probably be left to dry a little more in a warm sunny spot for few days to ensure there is no dampness left in them.
The seeds then need to have some stratification time (left to freeze in the freezer) for a few weeks before starting to germinate them.
Coneflower seeds take between 10 and 20 days to germinate.
Hope this helps and you have a bountiful crop of coneflowers!
VAL
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opabinia51
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Thanks Grey and Val. 
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grandpasrose
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jennymisek
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grandpasrose
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jennymisek
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I have never divided or transplanted any plants before. Always just put them in. When I go to transplant the volunteer plans, how much soil should I take around the roots? I don't want to dig or cut the roots. Do you know what I mean, root ball ish?
Same thing will apply for two flower beds by the front of my house. We need to raise the grade five inches in that bed, and there are already 3 year old plants in there. Is there an easy way to raise the grade up without having to take the plants out. I don't want to disturb them if I don't have too. On the other hand I don't want to just add an additional 5 inches of soil to the and cover parts of their stems, and have that turn out to be bad for the plants!
I appreciate your help!
Jenny
Same thing will apply for two flower beds by the front of my house. We need to raise the grade five inches in that bed, and there are already 3 year old plants in there. Is there an easy way to raise the grade up without having to take the plants out. I don't want to disturb them if I don't have too. On the other hand I don't want to just add an additional 5 inches of soil to the and cover parts of their stems, and have that turn out to be bad for the plants!
I appreciate your help!
Jenny
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grandpasrose
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Hi Jenny!
When you are digging a plant to seperate it, you should try to disturb the roots as little as possible. The amount of space around the plant that you dig depends on the size of the plant. If you are unsure, always start further out than necessary, you can always move closer in.
If you have a nice ball of dirt with the roots and you haven't severed any roots, you should be okay. Then just gently pull the divisions of the plants apart, again breaking as few roots as possible.
Now just plant each new plant in its new home! You should add some bonemeal, compost, and aged manure to your hole before planting it. A drink of compost tea wouldn't hurt either. Water it well, and keep it moist (but not waterlogged) until it is established.
As far as your two front flower beds, it depends on what type of plants you have in the bed. If you can tell me what they are, I will have a better idea what you can do!
VAL
When you are digging a plant to seperate it, you should try to disturb the roots as little as possible. The amount of space around the plant that you dig depends on the size of the plant. If you are unsure, always start further out than necessary, you can always move closer in.
If you have a nice ball of dirt with the roots and you haven't severed any roots, you should be okay. Then just gently pull the divisions of the plants apart, again breaking as few roots as possible.
Now just plant each new plant in its new home! You should add some bonemeal, compost, and aged manure to your hole before planting it. A drink of compost tea wouldn't hurt either. Water it well, and keep it moist (but not waterlogged) until it is established.
As far as your two front flower beds, it depends on what type of plants you have in the bed. If you can tell me what they are, I will have a better idea what you can do!
VAL
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jennymisek
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Okay so it might not be the doom and gloom that I was anticipating! What is a vol? Do you mean like a pitch fork?
I will most likely need to remove the plants (around 15 per bed) set them aside while I add soil, compost etc and then I can plunk them back in...
When they are sitting out, can I just cover them with a tarp so they don't get a lot of sun? I am hoping I can get the whole thing done in an hour, but some will be out for a while I am guessing.
Things in the bed are virigated dogwood, dianthus, spirea, some other woody shrub that I don't remember what it is, nice oval leaves though on branches. A quite orderly shrub, doesn't get busy at all! A few miniature day lilies and that is about it. Do they sound sturdy enough to take the process?
I will most likely need to remove the plants (around 15 per bed) set them aside while I add soil, compost etc and then I can plunk them back in...
When they are sitting out, can I just cover them with a tarp so they don't get a lot of sun? I am hoping I can get the whole thing done in an hour, but some will be out for a while I am guessing.
Things in the bed are virigated dogwood, dianthus, spirea, some other woody shrub that I don't remember what it is, nice oval leaves though on branches. A quite orderly shrub, doesn't get busy at all! A few miniature day lilies and that is about it. Do they sound sturdy enough to take the process?
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grandpasrose
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Hi Jenny!!! You can't figure out Scott's version of Greek? 
I think he is referring to volunteers, but you never know!
When you remove the plants from your beds, make sure you put them in a shady spot, and do cover them with a tarp, but not clear plastic or they will burn. You should also give them a good drink of water while they are sitting out to prevent shock as much as you can.
Then you can add all your wonderful soil amendments to improve your soil like compost, manure, chopped leaves, etc.
Then replant them in the bed in the positioning that you want them. Remember to water the hole well before you put the plant into it, then gently push the soil in around the roots to remove any air pockets. Then water it again. A nice drink of compost tea certainly wouldn't hurt.
A couple of the plants that you listed wouldn't need to be removed if you like where they are placed. They will just grow through the added soil. These would be the variegated dogwood, and your spirea.
I would do this quite soon, so that the plants get a chance to re-establish before the cold hits.
Hope all this helps, and feel free to check in with any questions!
VAL
I think he is referring to volunteers, but you never know!When you remove the plants from your beds, make sure you put them in a shady spot, and do cover them with a tarp, but not clear plastic or they will burn. You should also give them a good drink of water while they are sitting out to prevent shock as much as you can.
Then you can add all your wonderful soil amendments to improve your soil like compost, manure, chopped leaves, etc.
Then replant them in the bed in the positioning that you want them. Remember to water the hole well before you put the plant into it, then gently push the soil in around the roots to remove any air pockets. Then water it again. A nice drink of compost tea certainly wouldn't hurt.
A couple of the plants that you listed wouldn't need to be removed if you like where they are placed. They will just grow through the added soil. These would be the variegated dogwood, and your spirea.
I would do this quite soon, so that the plants get a chance to re-establish before the cold hits.
Hope all this helps, and feel free to check in with any questions!
VAL
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jennymisek
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Thanks for the advice on how to move the plants!
I am expecting some mail order plants within a few weeks, when they start shipping again. When they arrive the festivities will begin!
So I can just add the extra soil and stuff around the dogwoods? I also want to give them a hair cut as they are getting out of control, and actually one is not doing so well. If I leave them in the ground during the move, can I trim them up after the bed is replanted?
I had to move one plant temporarily today and when I put the shovel in the ground I heard it cutting some roots. Should I go wider? Or is this just going to happen?
Also, am I better off using a pitch fork or a shovel with a point?
Thanks again!
Jenny
I am expecting some mail order plants within a few weeks, when they start shipping again. When they arrive the festivities will begin!
So I can just add the extra soil and stuff around the dogwoods? I also want to give them a hair cut as they are getting out of control, and actually one is not doing so well. If I leave them in the ground during the move, can I trim them up after the bed is replanted?
I had to move one plant temporarily today and when I put the shovel in the ground I heard it cutting some roots. Should I go wider? Or is this just going to happen?
Also, am I better off using a pitch fork or a shovel with a point?
Thanks again!
Jenny
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grandpasrose
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Hi Jenny! Yes, you can just add the soil right around the dogwoods, if that's where you want them. And once you've done all your organizing and planting, you can certainly give them a haircut and whip them into shape. Dogwoods are pretty forgiving plants and will take a lot before being stressed. The only thing I have ever noticed them really take a dislike to is extreme dry soil.
When you are digging plants out, remember to start far out, then you can always come in closer if you find that you have too much soil, and no plant. Err on the side of caution. It's likely that you will damage some roots while moving these plants, but if you stay as far out as you can, it should be minimal.
You could try using a pitch fork if you feel more comfortable with it. Personally, I would stick with the shovel, as it is more likely to hold the root ball of the plant and its soil together. A pitchfork may actually spread and disturb it.
The most important thing to remember about doing a new bed is to have fun!!!!! It's a fresh new start! Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
VAL
When you are digging plants out, remember to start far out, then you can always come in closer if you find that you have too much soil, and no plant. Err on the side of caution. It's likely that you will damage some roots while moving these plants, but if you stay as far out as you can, it should be minimal.
You could try using a pitch fork if you feel more comfortable with it. Personally, I would stick with the shovel, as it is more likely to hold the root ball of the plant and its soil together. A pitchfork may actually spread and disturb it.
The most important thing to remember about doing a new bed is to have fun!!!!! It's a fresh new start! Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
VAL
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I am often accused of inventing language, so for the liguistically inclined I will translate...
Vol: a volunteer plant, except in Tennesee where it denotes a rabid football/basketball fan...
fork: O.K., I should have been more specific here. As we were discussing digging I felt it was implied I was talking about a digging fork, but in Scottish it can also mean a manure fork (or hay fork), or the implement I use to shovel fat onto my gluteus maximus. But in this instance, it's a digging fork...
I use the fork when digging vols because it is much less likely to cut new roots; it does break the ball a little, but I repot or get them in the ground almost immediately, so that isn't a big deal, and the root damage is less in my mind, not more...
Scott
Vol: a volunteer plant, except in Tennesee where it denotes a rabid football/basketball fan...
fork: O.K., I should have been more specific here. As we were discussing digging I felt it was implied I was talking about a digging fork, but in Scottish it can also mean a manure fork (or hay fork), or the implement I use to shovel fat onto my gluteus maximus. But in this instance, it's a digging fork...
I use the fork when digging vols because it is much less likely to cut new roots; it does break the ball a little, but I repot or get them in the ground almost immediately, so that isn't a big deal, and the root damage is less in my mind, not more...
Scott
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grandpasrose
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