I've seen morning glory growing wild in both New York (zone 5) and Virginia (zone 7) and yet every time I see morning glory seeds at the store, they are always labeled "annual."
So I'm confused - is there a such thing as a perennial morning glory or not? If so, what is it called? I want to know its name so I can Google a place to buy the seeds.
There is a plant some gardeners refer to as the "perennial morning glory". It's called Convolvulus arvensis (Prairie Bindweed).
biwa, does this look familiar-
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=COAR4
https://online-media.uni-marburg.de/biologie/botex/exk-dammmuehle/images/convolvulus_arvensis.jpg
https://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/~oberma/krautige-pflanzen/convolvulus-arvensis.html
https://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/esadocs/convarve.html
biwa, does this look familiar-
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=COAR4
https://online-media.uni-marburg.de/biologie/botex/exk-dammmuehle/images/convolvulus_arvensis.jpg
https://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/~oberma/krautige-pflanzen/convolvulus-arvensis.html
https://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/esadocs/convarve.html
Yes, I saw that growing in the woods by a lake in Virginia! I think the thing I saw in NY was actual morning glory though. This bindweed thing is very pretty, and it's exactly what I was looking for.... something pretty like morning glory but not so weak against cold.
I wonder if bindweed attracts butterflies.
I wonder if bindweed attracts butterflies.
If you are interested in butterfly gardening, please consider picking up this book at your library-
https://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Nature-Home-Sustain-Wildlife/dp/0881928542
Prairie Bindweed will definitely attract butterflies if it is planted where the species it evolved with exist and that would be over on the continents of Europe and Asia. Over here on the continent of North America where Prairie Bindweed has naturalized, it doesn't do much for any of our native butterflies as it isn't an actual host or nectar source of any consequence but bees sure do seem to be attracted to it.
Prairie Bindweed is a serious weed throughout North America.
https://www.invasive.org/browse/subject.cfm?sub=4338
It's a major threat to our crops as you can see above.
You might want to reconsider tracking seed down to this plant no matter how beautiful you think it is because we've already released one biological control to try to help out our farmers and several other prairie bindweed biological controls being trialed are on the horizon. You can read about the Eurasian noctuid moth (Tyta luctuosa) that was imported and released below or just skip to the wikipedia entry beneath which is short and sweet-
https://www.goert.ca/documents/Bib_convarve.pdf
Here's the wikipedia entry on Tyta luctuosa which pretty much spells it out-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyta_luctuosa
https://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Nature-Home-Sustain-Wildlife/dp/0881928542
Prairie Bindweed will definitely attract butterflies if it is planted where the species it evolved with exist and that would be over on the continents of Europe and Asia. Over here on the continent of North America where Prairie Bindweed has naturalized, it doesn't do much for any of our native butterflies as it isn't an actual host or nectar source of any consequence but bees sure do seem to be attracted to it.
Prairie Bindweed is a serious weed throughout North America.
https://www.invasive.org/browse/subject.cfm?sub=4338
It's a major threat to our crops as you can see above.
You might want to reconsider tracking seed down to this plant no matter how beautiful you think it is because we've already released one biological control to try to help out our farmers and several other prairie bindweed biological controls being trialed are on the horizon. You can read about the Eurasian noctuid moth (Tyta luctuosa) that was imported and released below or just skip to the wikipedia entry beneath which is short and sweet-
https://www.goert.ca/documents/Bib_convarve.pdf
Here's the wikipedia entry on Tyta luctuosa which pretty much spells it out-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyta_luctuosa
If this Eurasian moth is successful, and I believe it has been so far in areas where it has already been released, its populations will grow and spread out in search of new food sources which will negatively impact prairie bindweed growing outside of the original release areas. This moth isn't exactly discriminating. It won't differentiate between prairie bindweed growing in your yard and prairie bindweed growing in a farmer's field when it's hungry. Biological controls imported to control invasive species are considerably more successful these days.The larva is a brown caterpillar. The larva is the destructive stage. It eats leaves and flowers, especially new buds. This is the desired effect of this moth when it is used as an agent of biological pest control against field bindweed (Convolvulus arvensis). It was first introduced into the United States in the 1980s to attack this agricultural weed, which is its main foodplant.
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MaineDesigner
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:17 am
- Location: Midcoast Maine, Zone 5b
TheLorax and Grey thanks for your excellent contributions. If you will indulge me I have to rant a bit:
My comments may be a bit scattered but the central theme is hubris. Good gardening and good stewardship of the environment, from my perspective they cannot be divided, require humility. The complexity of the natural world is far beyond our capacity to grasp or model. A good gardener is always observing and learning. Invasive plants are a huge problem and something that every gardener must inform themselves about. Since what is invasive and what is not is regionally specific I'm not going to offer a list of plants but I urge everyone to find out what is invasive in their area and NOT plant more of those species even if "you can buy them at garden centers" or "they are everywhere". This is an interconnected world and no one is entitled to irresponsible behavior. If you can get involved in local efforts to remove invasive exotics so much the better.
I look at bio-control strategies with considerable trepidation. They certainly are preferable to insecticides and herbicides if everything goes as predicted and they are narrowly targeted. That "if", however, is no small matter. It is impossible to completely predict how a new release will fare over time in an ecosystem. Every release involves an element of chance.
Although these earlier efforts were far less careful than current research bio-control strategies in New England targeted at the Brown-Tailed Moth and the Gypsy Moth appear to have caused considerable collateral damage to our native Saturniid moths population. There is no "sure thing" in these matters. The same is true of genetically manipulated plants.
Be humble. Be careful. Be kind.
My comments may be a bit scattered but the central theme is hubris. Good gardening and good stewardship of the environment, from my perspective they cannot be divided, require humility. The complexity of the natural world is far beyond our capacity to grasp or model. A good gardener is always observing and learning. Invasive plants are a huge problem and something that every gardener must inform themselves about. Since what is invasive and what is not is regionally specific I'm not going to offer a list of plants but I urge everyone to find out what is invasive in their area and NOT plant more of those species even if "you can buy them at garden centers" or "they are everywhere". This is an interconnected world and no one is entitled to irresponsible behavior. If you can get involved in local efforts to remove invasive exotics so much the better.
I look at bio-control strategies with considerable trepidation. They certainly are preferable to insecticides and herbicides if everything goes as predicted and they are narrowly targeted. That "if", however, is no small matter. It is impossible to completely predict how a new release will fare over time in an ecosystem. Every release involves an element of chance.
Although these earlier efforts were far less careful than current research bio-control strategies in New England targeted at the Brown-Tailed Moth and the Gypsy Moth appear to have caused considerable collateral damage to our native Saturniid moths population. There is no "sure thing" in these matters. The same is true of genetically manipulated plants.
Be humble. Be careful. Be kind.
I completely agree with MaineDesigner on what I think are two central issues - the control of invasive plants and an over reliance on chemical and "biological control" solutions. It seems to me that preservation of the positive parts of our environment and a prevention approach to further damage for all areas are a much better strategy.
Even organic gardening, with it's many laudable practices, seems to overlook the destructive impact of invasive species. Some plants recommended for companion planting are invasive species. There doesn't seem to be any consideration of whether or not the insects that are encouraged are invasive species. These kind of omissions are just not compatible with the overall purpose of organic gardening - to create a healthy and sustainable environment. The control of invasive species should be more fully integrated into organic gardening principles and practices.
A pro-active approach to controlling the impact of invasive species will necessarily involve some sort of action to remove (or at least gain control of) existing populations. In the case of large populations on large areas of land, chemical and biological control may be necessary as an option of last resort. But even in these situations, their use must be carefully evaluated and their use must be carefully controlled. In most cases that is simply not possible with biological controls. Biological controls, once released, cannot be undone. And unlike chemical approaches, biological controls are self-regenerating. The long term effects could be far worse than the judicious use of chemicals.
Even organic gardening, with it's many laudable practices, seems to overlook the destructive impact of invasive species. Some plants recommended for companion planting are invasive species. There doesn't seem to be any consideration of whether or not the insects that are encouraged are invasive species. These kind of omissions are just not compatible with the overall purpose of organic gardening - to create a healthy and sustainable environment. The control of invasive species should be more fully integrated into organic gardening principles and practices.
A pro-active approach to controlling the impact of invasive species will necessarily involve some sort of action to remove (or at least gain control of) existing populations. In the case of large populations on large areas of land, chemical and biological control may be necessary as an option of last resort. But even in these situations, their use must be carefully evaluated and their use must be carefully controlled. In most cases that is simply not possible with biological controls. Biological controls, once released, cannot be undone. And unlike chemical approaches, biological controls are self-regenerating. The long term effects could be far worse than the judicious use of chemicals.
Thanks for the info. I've already got a book that lists most of the butterflies in North America and says which plants the larva feed one. However, it's really frustrating to use because it lists only the common names of the plants, not the scientific names. I've been looking for a better book; maybe that one will help me.TheLorax wrote:If you are interested in butterfly gardening, please consider picking up this book at your library-
https://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Nature-Home-Sustain-Wildlife/dp/0881928542
Prairie Bindweed will definitely attract butterflies if it is planted where the species it evolved with exist and that would be over on the continents of Europe and Asia. Over here on the continent of North America where Prairie Bindweed has naturalized, it doesn't do much for any of our native butterflies as it isn't an actual host or nectar source of any consequence but bees sure do seem to be attracted to it.
I'm not sure I understand why this convolvulus stuff is considered invasive. I've seen it grow - it only grows sparsely, never thickly. There's no way it can grow thickly enough to choke anything out.
I agree that biocontrols are dangerous. All I need to do to convince myself of that is visit Hawaii and its mongoose problem. But if it's a choice between that and poison it's hard for me not to choose biocontrols. After all, it's pesticide that's destroying our falcon population - the falcons eat songbirds that have ingested poisonous bugs and the poison makes their eggs fragile.
I've also been frustrated when looking for native host plants for butterflies. I compiled a list for my area and it took several references and a lot of work.
Here's a couple of websites that may help you get a headstart. They are not Virginia sites, but I would think that the butterflies and plants at these sites would be similiar:
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/forestry/pdf/ag/ag636_02.pdf
https://www.mdflora.org/publications/gguidelines03.pdf
Both sites use the common and scientific names of the plants.
Here's a couple of websites that may help you get a headstart. They are not Virginia sites, but I would think that the butterflies and plants at these sites would be similiar:
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/forestry/pdf/ag/ag636_02.pdf
https://www.mdflora.org/publications/gguidelines03.pdf
Both sites use the common and scientific names of the plants.
Hey biwa,
One of the reasons why it is deemed invasive is because Prairie Bindweed repeatedly escapes cultivation and ends up in our food supply. When it ends up in our food supply, farmers must deal with it. They do so using chemicals which then leach out into our water supply. Prairie Bindweed is toxic to grazing animals... think cows and the milk we drink and the beef from grocery stores that ends up on our dinner tables. It's got an incredibly long tap root (around 10' when mature) that enables the plant to withstand droughts which in turn better enables it to outcompete desirable species for light, water, and nutrients. Not good for agriculture when there's the equivalent of resource sponges growing in and amongst food crops because the production drops... when production drops, we can't feed the huddled masses. Add to this it's vining habit which can topple natives. Each plant you see in the wilds or growing in a farmer's crop is capable of producing around 500 seeds which can remain viable in the soil up to 20 years. So to add insult to injury with this plant, it creates one heckofa seedbank that has to be dealt with for decades.
https://www.invasive.org/browse/detail.cfm?imgnum=1459068
Please biwa, consider picking up Tallamy's book. Someone like you who isn't close minded and is already making connections is going to get a lot out of that book and ten to one odds after you read it... you'll will be posting in this very thread exclaiming, "Oh my word, I loved it"! Based on your comments regarding falcons and bird eggs, another publication you might want to pick up some day would be Sarah Stein's 'Noah's Garden'.
I will gladly volunteer to personally go beyond jumpstarting you if you send me a personal message with the county in which you live, a decent description of the areas of your property you would like to enhance, and a list of what you know or can remember that you already have growing there. It will take me about 10 to 14 days to compile a list for you but it will be "tailored". Please do take me up on my sincere offer... I rarely do this because it is extremely time consuming.
One of the reasons why it is deemed invasive is because Prairie Bindweed repeatedly escapes cultivation and ends up in our food supply. When it ends up in our food supply, farmers must deal with it. They do so using chemicals which then leach out into our water supply. Prairie Bindweed is toxic to grazing animals... think cows and the milk we drink and the beef from grocery stores that ends up on our dinner tables. It's got an incredibly long tap root (around 10' when mature) that enables the plant to withstand droughts which in turn better enables it to outcompete desirable species for light, water, and nutrients. Not good for agriculture when there's the equivalent of resource sponges growing in and amongst food crops because the production drops... when production drops, we can't feed the huddled masses. Add to this it's vining habit which can topple natives. Each plant you see in the wilds or growing in a farmer's crop is capable of producing around 500 seeds which can remain viable in the soil up to 20 years. So to add insult to injury with this plant, it creates one heckofa seedbank that has to be dealt with for decades.
https://www.invasive.org/browse/detail.cfm?imgnum=1459068
This is a highly adaptive plant and is capable of growing just about anywhere. It's one of those plants that restorationists see and want to gag because it literally chokes out native vegetation which reduces biodiversity. Leaving so much as one itty bitty piece of the root system behind when attempting to remove it by hand will ensure that the bindweed will do an Arnold... "I'll be back".Invasive plants and vines such as field bindweed interfere with harvesting and often clog equipment such as this combine.
Please biwa, consider picking up Tallamy's book. Someone like you who isn't close minded and is already making connections is going to get a lot out of that book and ten to one odds after you read it... you'll will be posting in this very thread exclaiming, "Oh my word, I loved it"! Based on your comments regarding falcons and bird eggs, another publication you might want to pick up some day would be Sarah Stein's 'Noah's Garden'.
I will gladly volunteer to personally go beyond jumpstarting you if you send me a personal message with the county in which you live, a decent description of the areas of your property you would like to enhance, and a list of what you know or can remember that you already have growing there. It will take me about 10 to 14 days to compile a list for you but it will be "tailored". Please do take me up on my sincere offer... I rarely do this because it is extremely time consuming.
I have a mixed morning glory that I have had for 5 years growing up the end of my porch. I have a friend who has had 1 for over 20 years. hers reseeds itself each year. what I do is buy another pack of seeds and when mine dies back, I cut it to the ground, sprinkle the ground with seeds and mulch the bed until the spring. They grow like crazy! I love them, one of my favs, good luck to ya.
You haven't really seen it growing then. This stuff is sort of our northern version of kudzu but poisonous instead of edible.I've seen it grow - it only grows sparsely, never thickly. There's no way it can grow thickly enough to choke anything out.
I've seen it kill bushes. I will take a pic this year of it on my mom's bush. I've been pulling it so it will be thinner but I definitely can't get it all. Last year the bush disapeared under bindweed and when it finally died off for the winter half the bush was dead and without leaves. This is a 5' high and 6' wide bush (can't remember exactly what it is though). I have bindweed in my landscaping too and if it has nothing to grow on it will form a solid mat across the mulch. You definitely do not want to plant it on purpose. Give it a good home with no competition to establish itself in and it may just decide to destroy everything around your house.It depends. The "morning glory" seeds I've seen in the commercial packets and whose descriptions I've read are all of the genus Ipomoea (e.g., Ipomoea tricolor, "Morning glory").
However, Convolvulus althaeoides tenuissimus (no common name provided in Sunset's Western Garden Book) earns the comment, "Spreds by rhizomes and can be invasive. Good in rock gardens, hanging baskets." And "tenuissimus" means "the most tenacious." Hmmm...
In the introductory paragraph for Convulvulus spp., Sunset states, "Common vining morning glories (Ipomoea) are sometimes sold as Convovulus."
I would go back and read the descriptions of what you planted (seed envelopes, maybe?). Most likely, if it was from seed, it was the nice, only mildly "vigorous" Ipomoea.
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
However, Convolvulus althaeoides tenuissimus (no common name provided in Sunset's Western Garden Book) earns the comment, "Spreds by rhizomes and can be invasive. Good in rock gardens, hanging baskets." And "tenuissimus" means "the most tenacious." Hmmm...
In the introductory paragraph for Convulvulus spp., Sunset states, "Common vining morning glories (Ipomoea) are sometimes sold as Convovulus."
I would go back and read the descriptions of what you planted (seed envelopes, maybe?). Most likely, if it was from seed, it was the nice, only mildly "vigorous" Ipomoea.
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
Thanks Cynthia,
I have 6 varieties started inside my house on the north coast of CA - Pastel Star, Scarlet O'Hara, Heavenly Blue, Candy Pink, Star of Yelta and my favorite - Picotee Blue. (If you have never seen it, google the image it is amazing!)
Not sure all are of the genus Ipomoea as only one seed packet indicates that. The others do not specify. If they are then they sound a little more well mannered than the nightmares I have been reading about.
Do you know if any of these can hurt established trees?
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I have 6 varieties started inside my house on the north coast of CA - Pastel Star, Scarlet O'Hara, Heavenly Blue, Candy Pink, Star of Yelta and my favorite - Picotee Blue. (If you have never seen it, google the image it is amazing!)
Not sure all are of the genus Ipomoea as only one seed packet indicates that. The others do not specify. If they are then they sound a little more well mannered than the nightmares I have been reading about.
Do you know if any of these can hurt established trees?
[/img]
Very beautiful. It's an Ipomoea, too. You'll be able to check the others via the Internet as well. I entered - "Picotee Blue" morning glory - as my search phrase, and one of the sites gave genus and species.
All of these belong to the Family Convulvaceae, but it's the genus Convolvulus that you want to look out for.
Sounds like you'll have quite a display!
Did you plant them at the base of some trees? Is that why you're asking re. trees? Or do you fear that they might rob tree roots of water? (I'm not clear on the "can they hurt established trees" question.)
Cynthia
All of these belong to the Family Convulvaceae, but it's the genus Convolvulus that you want to look out for.
Sounds like you'll have quite a display!
Did you plant them at the base of some trees? Is that why you're asking re. trees? Or do you fear that they might rob tree roots of water? (I'm not clear on the "can they hurt established trees" question.)
Cynthia
Yes I do want to plant them at the base of a formal looking 12' shrubby cypress(?) tree that is about 5 ft wide and goes to a sharp point at the top. I would like to try them on blackberries and a chain link fence that has an unfortunate view as well. I am also planning to train them on a wooden fence on fishing line. I have always wanted to grow morning glories but never have. Now I have at least 100 starts. I will plant some and gift or trade others. Thanks so much for your insight! 
The stand of morning glories we had in Berkeley had been planted before we moved there, in and among volunteer blackberries. Both plants flourished (of course...).
They were supported by a very old wooden fence whose existence was inferred only; the fence wasn't visible under the combination of these plants and the English ivy.
I would *not* recommend planting morning glories at the base of a tree unless you want the tree to be completely covered by the flowers. Morning glories twine very tightly to their supports; I've seen some landscaping near I-80 through Berkeley and Albany overgrown by (admittedly beautiful) morning glories. They die back during the dry Bay Area summer, but they re-appear with every rainy season.
Cynthia
They were supported by a very old wooden fence whose existence was inferred only; the fence wasn't visible under the combination of these plants and the English ivy.
I would *not* recommend planting morning glories at the base of a tree unless you want the tree to be completely covered by the flowers. Morning glories twine very tightly to their supports; I've seen some landscaping near I-80 through Berkeley and Albany overgrown by (admittedly beautiful) morning glories. They die back during the dry Bay Area summer, but they re-appear with every rainy season.
Cynthia
When I first started out gardening, I grabbed some bindweed out of a field because I thought it was pretty. It does indeed grow deep taproots that breakoff when you pull them. These taproots double (at least) in number, so now I contended with really thick vines and many, many seeds that sprouted the next spring. I am still pulling it out of my bed - it may grow several inches overnight. It seems impossible to kill.
There aren't many flowers on it (but they are pretty) and I don't believe I've ever seen a butterfly on one.
I'm not gung-ho on invasives (yet), but trust me on this - it is not one you want to start messing with. I'd get a clematis.
=============================================== "
There aren't many flowers on it (but they are pretty) and I don't believe I've ever seen a butterfly on one.
I'm not gung-ho on invasives (yet), but trust me on this - it is not one you want to start messing with. I'd get a clematis.
=============================================== "
I agree that ipomoea grows quickly and spreads if not checked, but it's hardly something you're going to battle with to try and control. They rip out of the ground easily for me, and they don't come back until the new seeds germinate the following spring. They grow as annuals where I live.
I think they're far less invasive than English ivy, poison ivy, Japanese honeysuckle, and Virginia creeper. Ipomoea is about the same level of invasiveness as wild grape vines (muscadine I think they're called?)
Perhaps you live in a warmer place than me; then I could see them being a problem. Ipomoea is not well adapted to my area; it's kind of wussy about the cold and the seeds don't even germinate until very late in the spring. And of course it dies completely when winter comes.
I think they're far less invasive than English ivy, poison ivy, Japanese honeysuckle, and Virginia creeper. Ipomoea is about the same level of invasiveness as wild grape vines (muscadine I think they're called?)
Perhaps you live in a warmer place than me; then I could see them being a problem. Ipomoea is not well adapted to my area; it's kind of wussy about the cold and the seeds don't even germinate until very late in the spring. And of course it dies completely when winter comes.