TheLorax
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The Cheshire Cat was one of my favorite characters. Excellent user name and excellent avatar.

Accolades to you for going chemical free. It's hard.

Regarding the bees caring for the periwinkle, my kids gravitate to junk foods. Don't we all? Probably a poor comparison but a few twinkies certainly aren't going to do in anyone's kids if they're being offered enough healthy foods.

Since you love your bumbles so much, I've got a list of associated bunch grasses somewhere that increase habitat opportunities for them. I'll dig it up when I get back. You might be very interested in planting a few clumps for your bee babies in those areas where you mentioned having space.

cheshirekat
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I planted some bee balm and borage for the bees. They seem especially fond of all the herbs I started in pots outdoors. I also planted a butterfly bush, rose bushes, and more daylilies. In previous years, I watched them spend a lot of time in my sedum, liatris, strawberry patch, blackberries, elderberries, and the unknown berry bush that has been growing out of one of my juniper bushes.

A few years ago, I was told the birds and bees like coral berry. It's a tiny little bush and the Yellow-jackets liked it but haven't noticed the birds or bees showing interest.

I agree that I don't want them to live on junk food, but if they have good food and snacks aplenty to choose from in my yard, then I will keep adding more every year so they will always have something to eat. Kind of like when I had an aquarium, I had different food for the fish that liked to hang out in the top part of the tank, middle part fish, and the bottom dwellers. The bees I think will like that they can nibble at ground level and in the high flowers of my mulberry tree. I keep wondering what the honey they make would taste like, made from stuff I planted.
"Love all God's creatures, the animals, the plants. Love everything to perceive the divine mystery in all." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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JennyC
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I know it's been a while on this thread, but can one of you guys tell me if I have Vinca minor from this picture? It's not blooming now, but does produce periwinkle-like flowers. It's fairly well limited -- one side of the house and under some trees, so I'm hoping it's the other species that is called periwinkle (name escapes me).

[img]https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/crispwriting/PICT0152.jpg[/img]

One thing I don't need, it's something else to have to try to control.
Jenny C

TheLorax
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JennyC, You have Vinca.

cheshirekat, You might like this article-
https://pollinator.org/Resources/Farming_for_Bees_2nd_edition.pdf

I took the bee walk at your Denver Botanical Garden last year or maybe it was the year before. We had a really nice guide. There was another area of the gardens that showcases native prairie grasses. That's one heck of a botanical garden you all have there. We have nothing that spectacular out my way. Way off topic but there was an arch to another area out by the parking lot that was made of gardening tools. I've never seen anything like that before. Very well done.

I can't find my list, at least not easily because it's buried here somewhere but these are some bunch grasses for bees-

Sporobolus neglectus would be a great bunch grass for your area. I've got Sporobolus heterolepis but that one would also be a great bunch grass for you.

Muhlenbergia asperifolia and Muhlenbergia andina are real nice.

Sporobolus heterolepis is an awesome grass. Extremely ornamental also.

Bouteloua gracilis, Bouteloua hirsuta, and Bouteloua curtipendula are also ornamental native bunchgrasses that multi-task.

If you want to get an idea of what the above grasses look like, you can plug their names in here and some photos will be available-
https://plants.usda.gov/index.html
In general, people seem to like bunch grasses for their ornamental value in a landscape more than for their value to bees. I planted my bunch grasses specifically for bees and birds.

Somebody here might have a more comprehensive list of bunch grasses for the bees by you and they might even be able to tell you where you could buy seed or plants-
https://www.conps.org/conps.html

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JennyC
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TheLorax wrote:JennyC, You have Vinca.
Argh! :evil:

Privet. English Ivy. Rampant honeysuckle. I think maybe chokeweed in the garden (too depressed to take its d@#$ picture now). Not fair.
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TheLorax
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My condolences if you've got English Ivy in the yard. The others aren't too hard to get rid of but that Ivy makes you so mad you want to spit BBs.

Chokeweed I don't have. Had to look it up to see for sure what you were talking about. Finally, somebody has something I don't have. Unfortunately my aunt down in FL has what I think you are calling Chokeweed. She calls it Hellroot or the root from hell. If you have Orobanche minor, it's an annual and it pulls up easily enough by hand. Just wait until after you have a nice good rain and it will come right out of the ground. It's going to keep popping back up for a while though so be on the lookout for it. Could be worse. Bag it and toss it out with your garbage.

Try to do a google image search for Orobanche minor and see if that's the plant you're calling Chokeweed. Either that or try the name my Aunt uses for the thing.

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JennyC
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TheLorax wrote:My condolences if you've got English Ivy in the yard. The others aren't too hard to get rid of but that Ivy makes you so mad you want to spit BBs.
Yard, nothing. It was growing through the windows and under the eaves into the house when we moved in. I think I saved a native dogwood -- it had all but covered the branches, never mind the trunk. I also saved the breaker box (inside the house) just before the ivy got into it. I think it pulled out some of the sattelite TV cables, buit that doesn't bother us as we don't watch TV. I have lots of Ivy still -- at this point, I'm not even ttrying to get it off the ground, just trying to keep it from going vertical again.

On the bright side, the Vinca is fighting it for dominance on the west side of the house. Maybe they'll kill each other.

Really on the bright side, I don't have Orobanche minor. I must have been thinking of something elas as chokeweed. What I have is a vine with heart-shaped flowers. I suspect it of being morning glory at this point, but, well, identification was one of my first motivations for joining the forum here -- I stink at it. So, pictures.

Sorry to distract from your thread here, Cheshirekat. If you're still looking for ground cover, I can send you some lovely English Ivy... (kidding!!) :kidding:
Jenny C

cheshirekat
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Jenny, I don't think this was my thread. If it was, I forgot. I could almost be in your position, Jenny. The hubby wanted me to plant an ivy years ago and mentioned that English Ivy. Personally, I've always thought that the houses I've seen with Ivy growing all over the place were creepy. The periwinkle was the only creeping type ground cover I could really stand.

Maybe you could plant some periwinkle and see if they can cancel each other out.

No. I guess that wouldn't be a good pair. They'd probably form a symbiotic relationship and take over your city. Sure wish I knew something to suggest for people with problems with invasive plants. I'm sure that I'll run into something invasive sooner or later instead of being so glad when nothing new dies. I do have weeds that drive me crazy, especially after it rains. The bad thing is that I don't know where to put the stuff I dig up - NOT in my compost. No way, no how. I consider the stuff a biohazard. Double bag and incinerate. (If only I could burn here.)

Thanks Lorax for the links. I'll check them out.
"Love all God's creatures, the animals, the plants. Love everything to perceive the divine mystery in all." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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JennyC
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Thanks, CheshireKat, but no more invasives here. We gave at the office and all that. Sorry to hear about your weeds -- what are you double bagging? I do it with ivy.

Okay, TheLorax, I figured out that I was thinking of bindweed when I said I might have chokeweed in my garden. But -- I stink at ID. I'll post the threatened pictures in the Gardening Tips forum if anyone wants to help.

We need a weeds forum, or an invasive species forum.
Jenny C

cheshirekat
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Jenny, I bag everything I didn't plant, except grass because it is good for the compost pile. If we had enough other additives, I'd skip the grass too. So everything else falls under weed and I finally got tired of putting names to weeds. Who needs the name? I call it all "evil".
"Love all God's creatures, the animals, the plants. Love everything to perceive the divine mystery in all." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

TheLorax
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On the bright side, the Vinca is fighting it for dominance on the west side of the house. Maybe they'll kill each other.
Nope, cheshirecat summed up what will happen over time quite nicely, "I guess that wouldn't be a good pair. They'd probably form a symbiotic relationship and take over your city".
What I have is a vine with heart-shaped flowers.
Uh oh, I think I know what this might be. Please post photos when you get a chance.
The bad thing is that I don't know where to put the stuff I dig up - NOT in my compost. No way, no how. I consider the stuff a biohazard. Double bag and incinerate.
Some noxious weeds and invasive species can be laid out in the sun to fry out then composted or dropped to the ground to create biomass. Depends on a lot of variables though. For the most part, I'm in the cheshirecat camp if the plant is in bud or fruiting- incinerate it or bag it to toss it out with the regular garbage.
We need a weeds forum, or an invasive species forum.
Agreed. There were several people who were very interested in an Invasives forum. NEWisc, MaineDesigner, and myself were a few I can think of however I don't believe there was enough interest at the time. I think if enough people were interested in learning how to control, manage, and eradicate noxious weeds and invasive species without using an area like that to go off on any plant that pops up where they don't want it growing... such a forum could become a reality some day. A forum such as this would be a good place to get IDs to be able to determine if a plant is really a noxious weed or an invasive species or not. I've noticed a sincere desire and a growing interest out there being expressed by gardeners from all walks of life representing all skill sets who want to know more about invasives.

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JennyC
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Ok, TheLorax, here's my possible invasive. It is volunteering itself all over my garden.

[img]https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/crispwriting/PICT0157.jpg[/img]

I noticed a lot of people have also looked at this pic, but no one seems to know what it is (or maybe my pictures are just too bad). I have it volunteering everywhere, not just the garden:

[img]https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/crispwriting/PICT0154.jpg[/img]
Jenny C

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A forum dedicated to identifying and exterminating non native invasive species would be a good thing, IMO.

TheLorax
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Yes, me too ahughes.

JennyC, when you said heart shaped leaves I immediately started thinking that Dioscorea bulbifera (Asian Air Potato Vine) which is major league nasty. By the looks of what you photographed, I'm thinking something in the genus Ipomoea which is sometimes major league nasty and sometimes only minor league nasty. Start by feeling the leaves and the stems, do they feel hairy/bristly/sand papery (pubescent)? Leaf arrangement on this should be alternate meaning that the leaves aren't parallel to each other on the stem but staggered up the vine. The edges of the leaves should be (entire) for I. purpurea meaning not serrated like a knife or no teeth present. Not enough decent photos to tell what you've got but compare the plant you have growing everywhere to photos and descriptions of Ipomoea purpurea and see what you think...
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IPPU2&photoID=ippu2_001_avd.tif
https://www.missouriplants.com/Bluealt/Ipomoea_purpurea_page.html
The market is flooded with cultivars and the flower color is extremely variable and runs from white to the dark illustrated above. It even comes in party colors!
https://www.topwalks.net/plants/blue/ipomoea_purpurea_03.htm
Hot pink-
https://i1.treknature.com/photos/4139/ipomoea_purpurea.jpg
And white with a pink center-
https://johnbokma.com/mexit/2006/11/12/ipomoea-purpurea-white-purple-with-raindrops-1.jpg
And another white with what I refer to as pink running stripes-
https://www.garden4less.co.uk/prodimages/thompson-morgan/flower-seeds/6166.jpg
And a solid white-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter_mania/840491916/
More variations shown here-
https://www.exot-nutz-zier.de/impressionen_convolvulaceae_i3.htm
https://www.treknature.com/gallery/Middle_East/Turkey/photo81696.htm
It can try to camouflage itself with all these pretty colors but it can't hiiiiiiiiiiide!
I. purpurea, and all of its many cultivars, happens to be formally identified as a noxious weed and an invasive species on the continent of NA> and it's a species that is native to the southeastern US.
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IPPU2
Lucky you if this is what you have. If after looking at the plant you have and the online photos you don't think you have I. purpurea... post more photos or poke around here and see if anything jumps out at you-
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IPOMO

Photos on your second plant are tough. They're pretty bad. I take mostly bad photos so don't feel bad. Half of mine are out of focus and have to be deleted. Try again and photograph undersides of leaves, stems, and why not dig one up and photograph the roots! Great to photograph plants when they bloom too!

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JennyC
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Lorax: Thanks yet again. Yep on the hairy leaves. Yep on alternate, and yep on entire, non-serrate. Plus I looked at the links you posted. I. purpurea it is. Obviously, I pull it out of my squash. Should I try to keep it down everywhere? You said it's a noxious weed and an invasive species in NA, but also that it's native to the southeast, so I'm confused on that point.

Maybe I should just transplant it into the Vinca/Ivy bed and see what pulls the house down first! :roll:

I'll see what I can do with the other plants and pictures. It'll be Monday, as we'll be gone most of the daylight hours tommorrow.
Jenny C

TheLorax
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Me personally, I'd destroy it all. It's a plant out of place that is wreaking havoc regardless of whether it is a native species to the portion of the US where you garden.

I wouldn't screw around with planting it in by the other nasties to see which pulls down the house first. In our old house, I planted a few "gift" plants and trained them to the brick chimney. Thought it would be so romantic having vines scaling the south side of the house. Total bill for tuckpointing the chimney and that entire side of the house was around 10k. My husband was fit to be tied and said with friends bearing gifts like that... who needs enemies.

Are the stems of the second plant you photographed square to the touch by any chance?

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JennyC
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Pics of mystery plant

Roger that on the morning glory. I tossed it roots up on the paths between my garden beds (I've mulched the paths with cardboad to keep down weeds, so now they double as a baking area for stuff I pull).

The second plant is round-stemmed, not square. Here are hopefully better pics of it. I have this thing coming up, literally, all over. If it's edible, I can quit worrying about the garden! Someone speculated in another thread (which I'll have to find) that it's shiso. I seem to have some purple shiso volunteering on one side of the house (there are herbs right where I'd put a kitchen herb garden, so I bet I'm not the first to think of that). And this looks a bit like it, at least in leaf shape. But I've now seen some itty bitty shiso sprouts near the parent plant, and they're uniformly dark purple.

Top view:
[img]https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/crispwriting/PICT0163.jpg[/img]

Side view:
[img]https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/crispwriting/PICT0162.jpg[/img]

Root:
[img]https://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/crispwriting/PICT0161.jpg[/img]
Jenny C

TheLorax
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Some sort of a Three Seeded Mercury? Acalypha? Acalypha virginica maybe?

Look at the veining only in this photo and compare it to what you have-
https://www.noble.org/Ag/Wildlife/DeerFoods/PlantPhotos/Photos-Large/C-028-02.jpg

Now look at all of the photos here and compare to what you have-
https://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/accvi.htm

The below is a pretty darn good site to check for photos of weeds for comparison if you have an idea of what you might have-
https://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/genusindex.htm

Unfortunately, their site doesn't have a key to be able to search based on characteristics.

Here's another really good site for photos however it has no way to search based on characteristics either-
https://weedid.missouri.edu/index.cfm

Here's University of California's photo gallery of weeds-
https://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/weeds_scientific.html

This is a book I own that helps me out-
https://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/WEEDS/list.html
I have lots of books but this one happens to be online. Note they have black line drawings. I like black line drawings better than photos personally.

This site cracks me up- Weed Alert
https://www.weedalert.com/

The U of I does have an online key for weeds but their photos aren't the greatest-
https://weedid.aces.uiuc.edu/

Our tax dollar at work here-
https://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/
We do have a fun site for Weeds Gone Wild's Least Wanted-
https://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/factmain.htm

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