Iceland poppies plant spacing (and climate zones)

[Beecmcneil]

How far should I space my Iceland poppies apart?
Bee

[Mr_bobo_]

In fall its easily split bush with shovel
...simple advice...

[rainbowgardener]

I don't know, but all the pictures I see of them, they are crowded together, so I don't think the spacing is real critical. Are you growing them from seed?

I don't know where you are in Calif, but the ICEland poppies don't like hot weather. In hot climates, Iceland Poppy seeds are usually sown in the fall for early spring blooms.

Have you thought about growing California poppies instead? It is the state flower and I think they are beautiful. They are typically golden, but these days they come in a range of colors.



probably more suited to your climate.

[Beecmcneil]

In fall its easily split bush with shovel
...simple advice...

uhm... huh? That sentence doesn't make much sense.
And I'm in sunset climate zone 2 in Calif ornia. California has 17 different climate zones. I hear that poppies will act like perrenials in certain zones and annual in others.
bee.

[cynthia_h]

I believe the earlier member was advising on how to divide an existing plant.

However, your question seems to be aimed at starting plants. I'm glad you've given your Sunset climate zone! It helps loads. If you have the Sunset Western Garden Book, you'll have so much plant info at your fingertips, you'll be able to take it out into the garden without ever having to worry about charging batteries again (you know, for laptop/notepad/smartphone etc.).

Papaver nudicaule, aka Iceland Poppy, is a "short-lived perennial" in Zone 2; grown as an annual in Zones 7-9, 12-24...."In cold-winter areas [sounds like Zone 2!], sow seed in earliest spring for summer bloom; or set out plants in fall for bloom the following year." 2001 edition, p. 495.

But they don't provide the spacing. I'd suggest calling an independently owned nursery in your area and asking them; the people who work in these true gardening centers are usually quite well informed on the needs of plants in the local area.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[rainbowgardener]

OK when you say California (unspecified), I don't think about Sunset zone 2. There's not very much of that in California, mostly in the mountains around Yreka and Klamath/ Tule lakes. Cold and snowy and a short growing season, not like the rest of Calif and not at all like the Southern Calif areas I grew up in.

[sepeters]

Was able to find one seed source that recommends 12-18'' plant spacing, but there are many types of Iceland Poppies that come in a wide range of plant sizes, so I am assuming the spacing will depend on your particular cultivar.

Last fall I sowed only a few seeds of Russian Blue Bread Poppies, about 8 inches apart and they self seeded and this season are getting quite large growing practically on top of each other. I'd sow the seeds close and thin them only if they start to look cramped. Careful with the taproot if you transplant them, though. They don't seem to like that.

[Beecmcneil]

I live in vallejo ca. and from my research I'm in sunset climate zone 2

[rainbowgardener]

Nope, I believe you are in zone 17 with cynthia.

https://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zo ... 000067175/

Definitely not cold and snowy zone 2.

[Beecmcneil]

where is 17? It looks to me like I'm right at the base of 2.

[rainbowgardener]

Click on the link I gave you and look at the map. It is much more detailed and shows 17 all around the inland side of the bay.

Then read the descriptions and use some common sense about whether that fits your area:

ZONE 2A: Cold mountain and intermountain areas

Another snowy winter climate, Zone 2A covers several regions that are considered mild compared with surrounding climates. You’ll find this zone stretched over Colorado’s northeastern plains, a bit of it along the Western Slope and Front Range of the Rockies, as well as mild parts of river drainages like those of the Snake, Okanogan, and the Columbia. It also shows up in western Montana and Nevada and in mountain areas of the Southwest. This is the coldest zone in which sweet cherries and many apples grow. Winter temperatures here usually hover between 10 and 20°F at night, with drops between –20 and –30°F every few years.When temperatures drop below that, orchardists can lose even their trees. The growing season is 100 to 150 days.

ZONE 2B: Warmer-summer intermountain climate

This is a zone that offers a good balance of long,warm summers and chilly winters,making it an excellent climate zone for commercial fruit growing. That’s why you’ll find orchards in this zone in almost every state in the West.You’ll also find this warm-summer, snowy-winter climate along Colorado’s Western Slope and mild parts of the Front Range; in Nevada from Reno to Fallon, then north to Lovelock; in large areas of northern Arizona and New Mexico; and in mild parts of the Columbia and Snake River basins. Winter temperatures are milder than in neighboring Zone 2a, minimums averaging from 12 to 22°F,with extremes in the –10 to –20°F range. The growing season here in Zone 2b runs from 115 days in higher elevations and more northerly areas to more than 160 days in southeastern Colorado.
https://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zo ... 000067169/

ZONE 17. Oceanside Northern and Central California and Southernmost Oregon
Growing season: late Feb. to early Dec. Coolness and fog are hallmarks; summer highs seldom top 75 degrees F, while winter lows run from 36 degrees to 23 degrees F. Heat-loving plants disappoint or dwindle here.
https://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zo ... 000036331/

[cynthia_h]

Yes. Vallejo is in Sunset Climate Zone 17. The map the poster has linked to is for BUILDING climate zones. I don't know what the criteria for these are, but they clearly are different from the Sunset climate-zone criteria.

The best maps of the Sunset climate zones are in the Sunset Western Garden Book; the on-line maps are...well...simplified, which means that many of the twists and turns, especially in topographically complex areas, like the S.F. Bay Area, the Seattle area, and higher elevations of the Mojave, Arizona, and New Mexico deserts, are smoothed out.

So, in Sunset Zone 17, the Iceland Poppy is grown as an annual. I don't have a specific independent garden nursery to recommend in Vallejo, but there are several "down here" I recommend.

ETA: This link takes you to the "San Francisco Bay Area and Inland" Sunset map. It looks OK except for inland Marin County, where Zone 16 has been given short shrift in favor of 17 and 15.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Mr_bobo_]

where is 17? It looks to me like I'm right at the base of 2.

Can I find this map for each state in USA...
...maybe for the rest of the world as well... ?

[cynthia_h]

The "Building Climate Zones" map was released by a California State government agency, the Energy Commission. Although similar to the Sunset Climate zones, these Building zones aren't nearly as detailed or area-specific. For example, only one city's-worth of data was used in developing the parameters of energy-efficient materials for buildings in each of these rather large zones.

I've written many times about the Sunset climate zone system, but it's been a few months, so let me dig up some links rather than repeat myself here.
Back in a few....

[15 minutes later]

--Sunset climate zone system vs. USDA "Hardiness" Zones

--Sunset vs. "revised" USDA Hardiness Zones, Spring 2012 (hint: Sunset wins)

--a guide to diff. sections of the Western Garden Book

--Personal experience when first starting to garden in S.F. Bay Area

--Discussion about on-line map simplification and zip-code search

Cynthia

[rainbowgardener]

@ Mr_Bobo:

You can find Sunset climate zones for anywhere in the US here:

https://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zo ... 000036421/

Here's a climate zone map for Europe:

European climate zones

These are comparable to the USDA hardiness zones, not to the Sunset climate zones. That is these European climate zones, like the USDA hardiness zones are based solely on how cold does it get in winter. The Sunset is a more detailed system that takes in to account winter cold, summer heat, humidity and precipitation etc. In fact if you compare the European climate zones to the USDA ones:

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

they are exactly the same. In other words, zone 4 corresponds to the same average minimum temperature range in both systems. That's very helpful, it means here in Ohio zone 6, I can look and see that my winters are about the same coldness as much of central Europe, much of Poland, Hungary, Bosnia, Serbia, etc....

[Beecmcneil]

Well I feel quite idiotic.
bee

[rainbowgardener]

easy mistake... I didn't even notice it when I looked at your maps, even though I knew it wasn't quite right and it had BUILDING CLIMATE ZONES in big letters across it. After that was pointed out, I was feeling a little dumb too...

[Mr_bobo_]

@ Mr_Bobo:

You can find Sunset climate zones for anywhere in the US here:

https://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zo ... 000036421/

Here's a climate zone map for Europe:

European climate zones

These are comparable to the USDA hardiness zones, not to the Sunset climate zones. That is these European climate zones, like the USDA hardiness zones are based solely on how cold does it get in winter. The Sunset is a more detailed system that takes in to account winter cold, summer heat, humidity and precipitation etc. In fact if you compare the European climate zones to the USDA ones:

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

they are exactly the same. In other words, zone 4 corresponds to the same average minimum temperature range in both systems. That's very helpful, it means here in Ohio zone 6, I can look and see that my winters are about the same coldness as much of central Europe, much of Poland, Hungary, Bosnia, Serbia, etc....

...thank you... looks like Europe have more simple zones then USA... hehe...