Decado
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Re: wisteria

Lol wow, I had no idea Wisteria got that crazy... If the trellis should break, do vine plants start anew every year so that I could put up a stronger trellis in early spring or does new growth come out of established vines?

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applestar
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Have you considered training it to bee a "tree" wisteria? I don't have room for wisteria vine -- unless I get the coveted arbor over the patio -- but I've been thinking about doing that. So far it's just an idea and a couple of books worth of research.... :wink:

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And it's not just trimming, but underground runners. Dirr says the plant will grow 10 feet or more in a season (not underground that fast, but it continues to spread basally. Be ready to shovel prune too).

I might restrict top growth considerably and try to maintain a lower vigor that way. Dr. Dirr says stay away from the nitrogen on this one, so easy on the feedings, leaning more towards potassium and phosphate than nitrogen. I'd just use compost which gives a continual light feeding suited to wards this one ranbunctious ways. I like the plant; just needs a lot of supervision.
:)
HG
Scott Reil

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On the positive side Lonicera x 'Dropmore Scarlet' was a good choice. I have not worked with the 'Blue Moon' selection but I do have experience with the straight species Wisteria marcostachys in Minnesota.

Now the bad news. Your trellises are (IMO) too small and too lightweight for woody vines. Especially in the case of the Wisteria I strongly urge you to consider something much larger and stronger, probably made from pressure treated wood.

Excluding clematis and occasionally Lonicera sempervirens or Lonicera x heckrotti or Aristolochia I generally do not use vines. I have seen far too many examples of vines getting away from the property owners, all it takes is a season or two of neglect. Virginia Creeper, Parthenocissus quinquefolia, left unchecked, is decidedly not "tree safe" per both my own observations and the Natural Resources Conservation Service.

Decado
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MaineDesigner wrote:On the positive side Lonicera x 'Dropmore Scarlet' was a good choice. I have not worked with the 'Blue Moon' selection but I do have experience with the straight species Wisteria marcostachys in Minnesota.

Now the bad news. Your trellises are (IMO) too small and too lightweight for woody vines. Especially in the case of the Wisteria I strongly urge you to consider something much larger and stronger, probably made from pressure treated wood.

Excluding clematis and occasionally Lonicera sempervirens or Lonicera x heckrotti or Aristolochia I generally do not use vines. I have seen far too many examples of vines getting away from the property owners, all it takes is a season or two of neglect. Virginia Creeper, Parthenocissus quinquefolia, left unchecked, is decidedly not "tree safe" per both my own observations and the Natural Resources Conservation Service.
What size wood do you think I'd be safe with? Would I be fine if I made a trellis out of 2x2's held together with wood screws and wood glue? Or is that too small even.

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I have watched Wisteria sinensis rip a porch off of an old Victorian house, and there is NO exagerration in that statement at all. Got vines up between the house and the porch roof and just ripped it off and down. Took a few years (almost seven), but wisteria has nothing but time... Two by two's will work a few years, but still ain't enough for the long haul...

MD is right, there is a short list most of us use in any situation; I had used the Virginia Creeper on wire fencing to good effect before, so recommended it, and I might add Schizophragma and Hydrangea vine to MD's list, but I agree for the most part, just don't use them as much as we did years back...

HG
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applestar
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Here's one that ate half of a barn and the attached silo....
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/MVC-001F.jpg[/img]
Here's my mom standing next to it for scale comparison:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/MVC-005F1.jpg[/img]
It's been torn down but it was quite a sight and gorgeous in flower each spring.
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/MVC-008F1.jpg[/img]

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Great example, AS!

See why we might be concerned, Decado? :shock:

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Scott Reil

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Yes, but I do plan on keeping it in check and adding trellis' as time goes on and I'm even planning on putting an arbor up back there at some point. I just need to know what size wood wouldn't snap while being kept in check, I'm a young guy, I can stay on top of this no problem.

FYI, I did heed your guys' advice, I planned on only getting the honeysuckle but my dad insisted on getting a wisteria. While a lovely looking choice we had no idea it would be such a problem.

Also, I'm guessing the honeysuckle would be fine with wood like 2x2s? Or am I wrong there as well?

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Mine is currently on a decorative wall trellis made of welded 1/2" iron rods with 12" underground stakes. It's climbed to the eaves and are trying to find a way up over the gutter and onto the roof.... (I'll probably have to get up there and train/trim them down soon) I've put up a rather flimsy hollow rod arbor to help it grow across the top of a window -- we love watching the hummingbirds out of this Family Room window. This has to be a temporary solution because this is the kind of cheap arbor that buckled under one season's growth of some wild grape vines during a severe storm one summer.

I think 2x2 wood sounds sturdy enough for the honey suckle as long as the structure is cross-braced enough -- besides, you're going to let it climb along the chainlink, right? But let's hear the experts' opinions for this one. :wink:

BTW -- my parents have a wisteria arbor made from 10' or so high (above ground) 4x4 uprights sunk in cement and 4x4 upper perimeter frame with 2x2 cross pieces. I'm guessing they've had it for at least 10 years.

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Right AS, somewhere in that range is about right, and 2 x 2's should be good for honeysuckle; nowhere near the gorilla like grip of Wisteria sinensis...

Our [url=https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=WIFR]native form[/url]is much better behaved, but not much available int the trade... shame, as it would seem to be a better garden plant...IF you can get by "Big Flower" thinking...

Dec, I'm not worried about now when you are young. This plant used to be easier to take care of here than it is now. As we continue warming up, this one will get worse and worse. It will be pretty, to be sure. But I've gotten wrecked by pretty before, y'know? :wink:

HG
Scott Reil

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The Helpful Gardener wrote:Right AS, somewhere in that range is about right, and 2 x 2's should be good for honeysuckle; nowhere near the gorilla like grip of Wisteria sinensis...

Our [url=https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=WIFR]native form[/url]is much better behaved, but not much available int the trade... shame, as it would seem to be a better garden plant...IF you can get by "Big Flower" thinking...

Dec, I'm not worried about now when you are young. This plant used to be easier to take care of here than it is now. As we continue warming up, this one will get worse and worse. It will be pretty, to be sure. But I've gotten wrecked by pretty before, y'know? :wink:

HG
Well I guess I'll just have to figure it out when it comes to that, I figure though by the time that happens nobody from my family will be living here anymore. I was thinking though, might the Blue Moon species not grow as crazy as the Sinensis? I'm going to go forward assuming it will grow like the Sinensis, but maybe it won't?

Also, later this summer or next summer (when money allows) I'm going to build a sturdy arbor with 6x6 posts and 4x8 roof timbers to let it grow up when it gets big enough, so hopefully by the time it overcomes whatever I use for now it won't be necessary anymore.

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Good news, Decado...

I should have looked this up earlier... 'Blue Moon' is from the old song Blue Moon of Kentucky! This is Kentucky wisteria which was thought to be a subset of out native W. frutescens (var. macrostachya, now its just Wisteria macrostachya). Bill Cullina has this to say about it... "It's a bit more cold hardy, and this combined with its more lavish bloom, makes it the type to seek out and grow." I've known Bill for a while and if he likes it it's a good one... so this is native and more, shall we say, refined in habit?

So all this brow beating from nothing; just a cultivar I hadn't heard of yet and I assumed an Asian type. :oops: And it appears native forms ARE making it to the market place... :mrgreen:

I still would build the bigger arbor... :lol:

HG
Scott Reil

Decado
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Oh nice, so does this mean it doesn't grow as rampantly?

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Right. It IS the native species I was talking about... And the better flower of our two native forms... 8)

HG
Scott Reil

Decado
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It should still grow enough to cover that trellis and an arbor though right?

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Decado, I suggest you contact Harvey Buchite at Hidden Springs Flower Farm: [url]https://www.hiddenspringsflowerfarm.com/[/url]
I believe Harvey made the selection of 'Blue Moon' and he will know better than anyone else how it behaves in your Zone 4 conditions. I don't think you have any worries about it being insufficiently vigorous.
I think something like 2x2 pressure treated or cedar in a 4x4 (or 6x6) pressure treated frame screwed and glued should make great trellis. Be sure you wear a dust mask if you rip pressure treated 2x4s to get 2x2s.

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True dat, MD...

Nasty things they use to keep the fiungus at bay...

And don't worry about the ability of that wisteria; I know a clump of native over by the casinos that is HUGE... It's still wisteria and yes it will cover your trellis this year...

HG
Scott Reil

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