potting/ seed starting soil

[rainbowgardener]

what does the DE do for your potting mix?

Day after tomorrow my mushroom compost should arrive and then I will be ready to mix everything up and start the first seeds!

[applestar]

The chunky diatomaceous earth size in UltraSorb is about same as perlite. I basically intended it to provide better drainage/aerating the soilmix. It's used by Bonsai folks and some hydroponics as growing medium. It seems to keep the soil mix drier and when those things dry out they are REALLY dry, so I was hoping for better fungus gnat control -- which I think IS working. The porous nature of the material should also act as microbe reservoir, though the drying characteristic may depress their viability as well (which from my perspective is a minus).

It's been working well in potting mix for mature plants and large containers. How well it will work for seed starting remains to be seen, though I've seen it mentioned by itself as being used for seed starting medium. (Was that here? I'm sorry to not remember or else I would attribute it to the person who mentioned it).

[Susan W]

My system is a bit different, but then sprouting needs different. I need a few ready-to-go plants of many varieties. As I am doing some herbs, hard to find stuff, perennials, traditional plants etc, it is a constant learning process, a worthwhile challenge when something works! Germination times may be 3 days to 3 months, and market/planting ready 2 months to 2 years. I am able to use my micro space 12 months/yr, and of course in summer months take advantage of outside space.
I use peat pellets in the little trays (10/12 per). I can plant 2 -6 trays at a time. Usually a couple go to the frig drawer for chilling. Part of the game is to have some easy and fast going mixed with the slow, as that will keep a few things moving through the system. I can handle about 14 trays in the prime area at a time now (winter). Once the seeds sprout and have true leave, I use Johns Recipe (Lady Bug Brand) about every 7 -10 days. Johns is 3 - 1.5 - 2, so pretty easy on the plants, and if not registered organic close to it. FWIW, I did try the coir pellets and they are not good! Germination low, and if sprouted didn't do much.

When the baby plant up enough, gets up potted to 4". A few that don't like to be disturbed much go directly to qts. The mix for the 4" varies, well to be honest weather a factor! I am working that now off a utility cart in my small kitchen, and use MG Potting mix. In pretty weather often use Fafards and throw in a little osmocote. For longer term starts and playing with Garden Tone in with the fafards. For a few herbs with several stems, 2 pellets go into one 4" (oregano, marjoram, savory). Some I do 2 plants anyway, like basil.

That sorta sums up the system.

[imafan26]

I think the moisture control potting mix may only be useful for indoor plants or locations that rarely see any rain. Even for indoor plants, you still need to be careful since with watering.

I tried peat pellets and peat pots. The pellets, I never could get anything to live in them for very long, they stayed to wet. The peat pots were expensive and while I could grow things in them, they were very brittle and fell apart to easily. I ended up having to put them in another pot, so there was not advantage there. I don't have problems transplanting from plastic pots.

[rainbowgardener]

agreed. I hate the peat pots. In my system, the pots may sit in trays getting bottom watered for up to two months. The peat pots get moldy and nasty and fall apart or they dry out and suck all the water away from the soil and plants. I use all plastic which is re-usable for years. I also don't have trouble transplanting things out of the plastic pots. You have to take them out of the peat pots anyway, since they don't biodegrade soon enough to do the plants any good and will sit there and smother the roots.

[applestar]

Ok, this year's seed starting has begun and I'm settling into using about equal parts fine damp coir and espoma organic potting mix, plus a bit -- eyeballed amount depending on type of seed -- of UltraSorb, a sprinkle of mosquito bits, a little bit of lime for those that need it. So far so good.

Watering at first with weak willow water (tips and bark steeped overnight).

[skiingjeff]

Applestar, what do you use the mosquito bits for?

I've been following all the potting soil mixture threads and this is the first time I've seen them mentioned.

Thanks!

[applestar]

Mosquito bits are Bt var. israelensis infused corn cob bedding. This strain of the bacteria infects larvae of mosquitoes and fungus gnats as well. I'm tired of fungus gnats that spontaneously generate in the soil mix, and decided that I'm going trust this is not toxic. It has been approved for organic use recently.

I needed a solution that doesn't involve killing off the beneficial soil microbes in the mix since I'm working on building them up -- can't be sabotaging my own efforts,

[skiingjeff]

Thanks Applestar! I normally don't have problems with the fungus gnats until later in the seed starting season about 1 month before I want to be transplanting. Hmmm, around the time I start bringing the plants in and out to harden them I believe.

I bottom water with cinnamon water and let the plants dry out but I wonder if I put the bits in the top layer of the pots just before that timeframe if it would work as well as putting it directly into the entire pots soil.

I may need to try this experiment!

[rainbowgardener]

I put cinnamon in the water preventatively from the beginning. I haven't lost a seedling to damping off in years. Before I discovered the cinnamon, it was a regular occurrence. Also keeps the fungus gnats away as long as I keep it up. If I forget for a week or so, the fungus gnats suddenly appear! Spontaneous generation indeed.

[sweetiepie]

How much cinnamon would you put in a quart of water, for instance? Do you change the amounts as the seeds grow or same amount from seeds being planted until transplanted in the garden?

[rainbowgardener]

Very little. I have a half gallon pitcher I water from. I just do a couple shakes of cinnamon from the shaker every time I fill the pitcher up, then stir it in. It's probably less than an eighth teaspoon in that much water. But it probably builds up in the soil. The amount is adjusted automatically in the sense that bigger plants take up more water, but I don't do anything different.

It's all very low tech and unmeasured, but it seems to work since I don't have damping off or fungus gnats. In the days before I discovered the cinnamon, I had both.

[sweetiepie]

Thank you! I will try that. I am having poor germination with my onion seeds. I don't think it is damping off .

[rainbowgardener]

nope, damping off does not affect germination, only young seedlings after they have sprouted.

Onion seed should germinate in about 7-8 days with soil at 70-75 degrees. Like most seed, it needs to be kept damp, not wet, through that time.

[LeeLeePat]

I've been reading through all the posts on fungus gnats. I'm saddended that I repotted all of my plants (3 trees 3 plants) about a month ago and they are back. I started seeing one sporadically this week, then today I saw 5. I just tried cinnamon tonight. I can't stand these bugs. Please tell me is there a permanent solution? I read the gnats can kill the plants. I don't feel like I'm overwatering. The soil is dry. I was overwatering in the past but not now. Overwhelmed and I don't want to lose these plants.

[digitS']

Biological Mosquito Control also kills Fungus Gnats, so says this article in Mother Earth News.

I have not tried the Bt recommended. I'm just happy enough with limiting watering of potted plants that have been outdoors all summer ... and ... using yellow sticky traps.

Trying to kill the critters years ago with an organic contact spray was a complete fail.

Steve

[imafan26]

Since the snails are having a party with my seedlings I am trying something different. I usually start my cuttings under the bench, but between and the weeds and the snails they aren't very happy. I put them on the lanai table to try to keep them out of reach of the snails but they are a bother to have to carry them out every day to water.

I am trying to root green roses and Mr. Lincoln cuttings in one pot and lavender in two other containers. I have been successful with the green rose in the past, but failed miserably with every hybrid tea so far. I usually don't have a problem with lavender, but this year they are not cooperating. I have a 25% success rate. I am starting the cuttings in potting mix (peat lite) instead of perlite which is my usual thing for starting cuttings. I am also using the baggie method to create a mini greenhouse/terrarium so I don't have to water as much. So far the roses look good although I have had to turn the baggie a couple of times because of excess condensation. The lavender is less happy, and most of them look like they are dying. I am also keeping my seedlings on the bench under cover longer to try to keep the snails from eating them. Today I did catch two snails mowing the cuttings that were coming through the top of the tray and they ate another tatsoi on the bench, only the harder parts of the stems are left.

[rainbowgardener]

Hi LeeLee and welcome to the Forum. Re the fungus gnats:

The cinnamon does not work instantly. It does not actually kill the fungus gnats or their larvae. It is a natural anti-fungal, that kills the fungus in the soil that the gnats feed on. You will have to be consistent with it - a little bit in the water every time you water- for awhile. If you already have a bad infestation, it will take longer.

Water really is the key. It would help to know what your plants are, where you are, whether these pots are indoors or outdoors. But my indoor plants, especially the trees and large plants, I do not water any more often than twice a month. In between, I mist the leaves daily, to keep it humid and keep them from losing water through the leaves. With this routine, I NEVER have trouble with fungus gnats in my potted plants.

It also makes a difference what the potting mix is like. If it is heavy, like has some actual soil in it, or has a lot of peat moss in the mix, it will hold water too much. Your plants and especially trees will do better AND you will have less (or no) trouble with fungus gnats if you use a more free draining mix. You can do this by mixing in more perlite or coarse sand or using part cactus mix.

[imafan26]

I agree, I don't have indoor plants but I have a lot of plants that are crammed together outside so I do get bugs flying around. Less watering and better air circulation helps. If the plants are indoors, if they can be taken outside on warm days or use a fan to help to dry them. Also make sure the saucers are empty so you don't have standing water under the pots.

[catgrass]

Water with soapy water. Might not kill them all, but it will cut down on them. Or make a soapy solution and spray the soil with it.

[abhaykale]

Iamafan26: You said you have figured out how to grow cilantro. Could you please share the method? I still have a hit and miss. Being from India, we use lot of cilantro. So, would love to know how to grow it.

[pepperhead212]

Hi abhaykale, I also have tried to grow cilantro, to no avail - it always bolts before there are many leaves. And it doesn't grow much better in the spring, when it's cooler, though it seems the heat makes it bolt even faster. I'm thinking it has something to do with the length of days. Considering that the areas that seem to grow more cilantro are closer to the equator, most would be hotter than NJ, so it can't be a heat problem! What region of India are you in?

I have tried many varieties of cilantro - most labeled "slo bolt", to no avail. The best results have been indoors, in hydroponics, but that's not something I do all year.

Good luck solving the puzzle for your area!

[imafan26]

Cilantro needs cool weather but not really cold. It actually will germinate better in warmer temperatures but needs to mature when the temperature is less than 75 or it will bolt. I only grow cilantro Oct- March with the Last harvest in May. It will germinate but bolt quickly in higher temperatures. I have short days so my winter days are 10 hrs 50 minutes on the winter solstice and peaking at 13 hrs 26 minutes on the summer equinox. I don't have much variance in light so temperature is the main factor. As the days get longer and warmer, I grow the cilantro where it gets morning sun and afternoon shade to slow bolting. I am using slow bolt seed, but it does not really make that much difference. Shading will decrease the temperature a couple of degrees.

Fresh seeds works best. Split seeds germinate faster. Whole seeds will benefit from soaking them overnight in water to get the shells to crack open. I mix up my potting media. Wet it thoroughly but it should not be soggy, just friable. Put the seeds on top. I overseed because germination is not that great. Try to get the seeds about an inch apart. Cover with more media. I just cover the seeds but you can cover 1/4-1/2 inch. Press the media with your hand or a board to set the seed. Put a paper towel on top, and water through the paper towel until the media is moist and drips. You can use a spray bottle with water for a small container. You want to went the paper towel and remove air spaces in the media without disturbing the seeds. Keep the media and paper towel moist and damp, but not soggy. Check for germination under the paper towel, gently lift the towel off. Bottom water or water with a spray bottle until the true leaves come out and the roots are established.

It is important that cilantro mature in temperatures less than 75 degrees. If it is hotter it will bolt. You can grow cilantro in partial shade with morning sun to keep it from bolting sooner if you are growing it in a warm climate. I can grow cilantro in full sun in the months Nov-Mar when the sun is weak and my day temperature is less than 75 degrees. My lowest temperature is around 50 degrees. But cilantro will germinate faster in temperatures above 68 degrees and slower at lower temperatures. It is not a summer crop for me.

[River]

I have used the jiffy seed starting for years. I found bags for $1.45 at rural king and picked up a couple. Great price

I have been picking up fine pine bark mixed with fertilizer and perlite for my potting mix in bulk which has worked well. I get a yard for $40 which is a good bit. My point is I can purchase the fine pine bark without the additives and it would work well as long as I kept it moist.

[imafan26]

I actually don't have a lot of luck with the seed starting kits. The cells are too small and it have problems with uneven watering. I also keep the plants in the pots too long. Single cells take up a lot of space on my bench, so things that can be transplanted, I put in community pots which are usually 4 inch pots but sometimes I use trays. Cilantro and carrots don't transplant all that easily so I usually direct seed them. As I said, I find the split cilantro seeds germinate faster than the whole seeds. They keep pretty well as well. I have a short season for cilantro but they are not the best at germination and survival so I overseed. I used to soak the seeds for 24 hours to help with germination, but I don't have a problem with germination now, so I don't bother. I prepare the ground and add the starter fertilizer. Usually I don't add nitrogen until after the true leaves appear. I wait about a couple of weeks for the fertilizer to settle in. If you are doing organic you have to fertilize 6weeks to 6 months before to get the most out of your fertilizer unless you have a very fertile garden.

I make sure the seed bed is moist before I plant. I scratch the surface with a rake to rough it up broadcast the seed. If you like rows you can plant the seeds about 3 inches apart. I mainly broadcast all of my seeds and don't plant in rows. I cover with a thin layer of potting mix or compost and water it in. I usually have to either stand back or turn down the force on my hose end sprayer to get a gentle spray. I don't want to move the seeds a lot. Parsley seeds can take up to 28 days to germinate, but the cilantro I last planted came up in 8 days. I like to plant seeds just before a long slow rain is expected. I think the seeds prefer rain water and a long slow soak.

You are lucky to be able to get good bulk soil. I don't have a lot of options. I have to get what is available at the box stores. There is a green waste facility, but their product has a pH of over 8 and it is very coarse. It also has nut sedge seeds in it. I have plenty of that already.