Week 1

[Glassonion91168]

Check out my seedlings!!

Week 1:

Moonflowers, Coleus and Marigold seedlings. Zinnias, Morning Glories and Sunflowers are going straight into the ground in mid-May. Also pictured are my tomatoes in the top tray. Endless summer and Romas.

[applestar]

Looking good!

I think you mentioned Endless Summer tomatoes a couple of times already. Since I tend to think hydrangea when I hear that name, I decided to look it up.

Wow, this is the first genetically engineered variety I've heard about being grown for home garden... Unless there are others I didn't realize. I tend to concentrate on heirloom and open pollinated varieties -and I have surprising number of them memorized- but I'm not up on all the other varieties.

[Glassonion91168]

Thanks!

I just bought the seeds at my local Walmart. They're Burpee seeds and Burpee claims to sell non-GMO seeds. Wouldn't Endless Summer tomatoes just be hybrids?

Eh, they came out great last year. What the heck do I know!

Looking good!

I think you mentioned Endless Summer tomatoes a couple of times already. Since I tend to think hydrangea when I hear that name, I decided to look it up.

Wow, this is the first genetically engineered variety I've heard about being grown for home garden... Unless there are others I didn't realize. I tend to concentrate on heirloom and open pollinated varieties -and I have surprising number of them memorized- but I'm not up on all the other varieties.

[applestar]

This is where I got my info https://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/j ... matoes.pdf
...considering what the article say about gene splicing to suppress ethylene gas production and how the fruits don't ripen until exposed to the gas in the warehouse processing, and since you say yours turned out "great" last year, they may not be the same.

I also read that Burpee sold the seeds for this variety last year but are not selling them this year? I'm assuming you are growing left over seeds.

[Glassonion91168]

Hmmm. I'm anti-GMO, so I hope they're not the same!

I ended up buying mine I think in December, but I'm still seeing them in the store.

[Meatburner]

None of the seeds you can buy are GMO. That is a marketing ploy only and people fall into their marketing garbage. There are NO GMO seeds available in stores for the general public! You have fallen into their marketing about GMO seeds.

[Glassonion91168]

Well that's a relief!

[rainbowgardener]

Interesting. I checked out your article, applestar, and it seems clear, but if you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page, it is dated July, 1995. Here is what myfolia tomato database says about it:

Its scientific name is Solanum lycopersicum 'Endless Summer'. 'Endless Summer' is considered a patented hybrid cultivar. Plant produces harvests of red globe shaped fruit. Fruit was mainly bred for commercial growers as it has been genetically modified to ripen more slowly so it can be transported long distances easily1 2. Regular leaf. Indeterminate.
https://myfolia.com/plants/10-tomato-sol ... ess-summer

However, if you check out the footnotes in above article, it is a book reference. You can't copy from the page but it says "prevented DNA Plant Technologies from fully marketing their product and Endless Summer Tomato was discontinued"
https://books.google.com/booksid=gT7Saz6 ... to&f=false

they also footnote the wiki article on genetically engineered tomatoes which says

A genetically modified tomato, or transgenic tomato is a tomato that has had its genes modified, using genetic engineering. The first commercially available genetically modified food was a tomato engineered to have a longer shelf life (the Flavr Savr). Currently there are no genetically modified tomatoes available commercially .... DNA Plant Technology (DNAP), Agritope and Monsanto developed tomatoes that delayed ripening by preventing the production of ethylene,[10] a hormone that triggers ripening of fruit.[11] All three tomatoes inhibited ethylene production by reducing the amount of 1-aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic acid (ACC), the precursor to ethylene. DNAP's tomato, called Endless Summer, inserted a truncated version of the ACC synthase gene into the tomato that interfered with the endogenous ACC synthase
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneticall ... ied_tomato

The plot thickens... Golden Harvest Organics has a very interesting article called "Failure of the first GM foods" ( https://www.ghorganics.com/failure%20of% ... 0foods.htm ) that chronicles a lot of the history of this. It contains this:

Several other companies are trying to develop GM tomatoes: Agritope, Aventis, DNA Plant Technologies, and Seminis. DNA Plant Technologies and Monsanto sued each other over patent infringements. Before Monsanto triumphed, DNAP test-marketed a tomato called Endless Summer in New York, but was then bought by ELM in 1996. However, neither company has marketed GM tomatoes since. Agritope, gained approval from the FDA in 1996 for a GM tomato but is not ready to market it.
3. Health Concerns: Concerns over the safety of GM foods from the public and scientists, on top of many business management errors (see next section), resulted in the eventual failure of both GM tomato products.

So applestar's article was some kind of marketing hype from 1995, but by 1996 the GMO Endless Summer tomato was discontinued.

So then the question is what does glassonion have? Tatiana's tomato database which lists thousands of tomato varieties has NO LISTING for it. myfolia tomato database has only the listing for the discontinued GMO one.

Apparently someone else is using the endless summer name, but unregistered? Seems kind of creepy somehow.

glassonion ... your response popped in there while I was doing all this. Read it before you get totally relieved.

[Glassonion91168]

I saw this article that profiled the owner of Burpee seed, and while there's one company that they use that's tied with Monsanto, I think they carefully vet those seeds and wouldn't offer GMOs to the public.

https://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-garde ... pee-seeds/

I only buy Burpee seeds or Park Seed. I bet Park Seed has the same policy.

[rainbowgardener]

I'm sure you are right and this is not the GMO Endless Summer. But then why are they using the same name and why is it not listed in Tatiana's db, which covers everything? Something still seems a little off about it. They are trying to capitalize on the reputation of the GMO one, while not being GMO? OR ????

[applestar]

Hmm... OK, so my first speculation is that Burpee could have grown out the GM Endless Summer from the 90's over several generations. Interesting question then is how many generations removed from original GM generation makes it NO LONGER genetically modified?

A crossed tomato variety is considered "stable" after 7-9 generations and is given a new variety name.

If they are calling it a "hybrid" then what they could have done is to grow out two variants from the original, then used the two inbred selections to create the hybrid F1 that consistently turns out the same.

"Endless Summer" tomato doesn't turn up in Burpee's website search, and I also looked all of the red tomato listing there.

[rainbowgardener]

It is a really interesting thing that glassonion stumbled on to and may be representative of a lot of stuff going on that we don't hear about.

Re how many generations removed from the GMO would it have to be before we wouldn't consider it GMO?

" DNAP's tomato, called Endless Summer, inserted a truncated version of the ACC synthase gene into the tomato that interfered with the endogenous ACC synthase"

I would think as long as the plant still has that "truncated version" of the gene that was inserted, it is still GMO, no matter how many generations later it is. 'Course it seems the only ways to tell would be DNA analysis or observing the fruit ripening.

[Glassonion91168]

Side note: my Moonflowers decided to just take off! I'm thinking about keeping the lid off both trays because they're already pushing against the lids!

[applestar]

"side note" Back on topic, you mean

[rainbowgardener]

but yes, definitely keep the lids off as soon as things have sprouted. They are only for germination.

the side topic was a diversion, but I thought an interesting one. I had fun trying to track all this stuff down and learned a bit in the process...

[applestar]

News flash! Someone at another forum was also growing Endless Summer tomatoes from packet of seeds from Walmart, and whether it's GMO and whether it's the same as the one in the study came up for discussion. She contacted Burpee and with some perseverance, obtained the following information:

Apr 16, 2014
Burpee replied again.

"Regarding this variety, our Endless Summer is not the same tomato used in the GMO study to which you refer.

The people who conducted this study likely never registered the name Endless Summer with the USDA as when we named our tomato and registered it with the USDA the name had not already been registered.

We would not have been able to use that name if it had. The tomato is completely unrelated to the GMO variety.

I checked a packet of Endless Summer tomato from our Walmart line and the lot number 16 is from Holland."


Customer service apparently gave up, because this was a reply from one of their horticultural experts.

(I asked and received her permission to copy and post this here.)

So, there you have it.

[Glassonion91168]

News flash! Someone at another forum was also growing Endless Summer tomatoes from packet of seeds from Walmart, and whether it's GMO and whether it's the same as the one in the study came up for discussion. She contacted Burpee and with some perseverance, obtained the following information:

Apr 16, 2014
Burpee replied again.

"Regarding this variety, our Endless Summer is not the same tomato used in the GMO study to which you refer.

The people who conducted this study likely never registered the name Endless Summer with the USDA as when we named our tomato and registered it with the USDA the name had not already been registered.

We would not have been able to use that name if it had. The tomato is completely unrelated to the GMO variety.

I checked a packet of Endless Summer tomato from our Walmart line and the lot number 16 is from Holland."


Customer service apparently gave up, because this was a reply from one of their horticultural experts.

(I asked and received her permission to copy and post this here.)

So, there you have it.

Well thank you!!! That's so great. They're doing great already and I can't wait to plant them.