Sprouted Now what

[swoodard]

I have built my self a indoor greenhouse that has peepers and tomato seed. I have been keeping it completely sealed with grow lights and fans. It's been about 80 degrees inside it. What I have is a 6' high wire rack with 4 shelfs thats been wrapped in plastic. I lower the front piece to access daily. Now that everything is sprouted up can I take the front piece of plastic off now leaving all exposed. Obviously grow lights stay on all the time but overall temp may go down to about 60 as this GH is in my garage. Lights are 4 inches about the plants which should keep them at 75-80 per my thermometer.

[IndyGerdener]

Not wasting anything keeping it sealed and peppers like warm soil. I would leave it be. At least that is what I do with mine until they are 12" plants. Then I move them outside

[applestar]

Tomatoes and peppers have different preferences.

To begin with, I would put all the tomatoes on the lower shelves and all the peppers on the upper shelves, and remove the lower portion of the front piece. Adjust so the temp for the lower shelves is about mid50's-60's° -- can go down to 50's during the night, up to lower 70's during the ay.

For the peppers, fully enclose or create ventilation slits so the temps for the upper shelves are no lower than mid-50's to 60's during the night and up to mid-upper 70's during the day if bell peppers, or up to mid-80's if hot peppers.

[swoodard]

Thanks. I may shuffle and try this. I have a feeling I'm going to kill me all lol. I see some leaves starting to curl and am thinking I'm over watering but I'm not sure.

[IndyGerdener]

Curl up or down?

[swoodard]

Curled up

[IndyGerdener]

To much water. Curl up is to much curl down is not enough.

[rainbowgardener]

Plants need rest too. It is better to have the lights on 16 hrs a day instead of 24. Different processes happen in the dark than the light.


Photosynthesis can be divided into two parts: the light reactions and the dark reactions. In the light reactions, light energy from the sun is captured by the plant and converted into chemical energy in the form of chloroplasts.

An additional feature of the light reactions is that a molecule of water is split so that its oxygen is released. In the dark reactions, a series of steps called the Calvin cycle converts carbon dioxide from the air into organic molecules such as sugars and starch.
https://lifeofplant.blogspot.com/2011/03 ... ation.html

So the plant can better feed itself, if given dark time.

You got good responses about temps, but note what Applestar said about ventilation slits. Little seedlings in conditions of high humidity/moisture and low air circulation are very vulnerable to a fungal disease called damping off. They really need some air circulation and be very careful about the over-watering. Best is bottom watering lightly.

[swoodard]

This is way more complicated than I first thought.

[rainbowgardener]

Well actually, in some ways you made it more complicated by enclosing it to be a greenhouse. That gives you lots of problems with humidity and air circulation. If you take all the plastic off and just put your plants on heat mats, they should be fine. As long as it isn't freezing, the soil temperature is more important than the air temperature.

[swoodard]

I thought heat mats were only used during germination and all sprouted fine without a mat. I left it open this morning and lights on, so we will see what they look like when I get home. Will update tonight. Thanks for all suggestions.

[rainbowgardener]

The heat mats are particularly necessary for germination. Yours sprouted fine without them because they were at 80 degrees, which is hotter than mine are with the heat mat. But in the meantime if you are trying to grow plants in cool air conditions, the heat mat can make up for that.

[swoodard]

Just got home and I'm not seeing much difference. Some look healthy some look like there about to die. I have tomatoes that are almost 2" tall but only one set of leaves. Should I transplant these now or wait until they get another set of leaves? I see so many conflicting things on the net from watering to transplanting I'm just confused lol.

[applestar]

When new to growing from seeds, gardeners often mistake tallness of seedlings for "good" growth. You may have tall seedlings because the lights are on 24 hrs. The lighs may also be not close enough to the tops of the foliage depending on what kind of lights they are.

Some pictures would help us see exactly what's going on.

[swoodard]

Can you post pics in this forum? If so let me know how and I will

[applestar]

instructions https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... php?t=3724

[swoodard]

Thanks. I will post some very soon.

[swoodard]

Let me know if this one works and if it does I will post some close up of my so called plants
This is a pic of overall GH

https://s294.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... sort=3&o=3

[swoodard]

I think the linked work so here ya go..... Here is the peppers and tomatoes
https://s294.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... sort=3&o=0


https://s294.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... sort=3&o=1

https://s294.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... sort=3&o=2

[rainbowgardener]

photobucket makes it really easy to show your pictures here, just paste in the IMG code:

[swoodard]

Got it

[rainbowgardener]

I looked at all the pictures. I don't see any that "look like they're about to die." They are babies, but look pretty ok so far. The tomatoes are maybe just a shade taller and spindlier than one would hope, but not seriously so far. If you start giving them rest periods, that may help.

When you transplant the tomato seedlings in to pots remember to bury them up to the base of the seed leaves. They will root all along the buried stem and that will help take care of the legginess.

How long has it been since they poked their heads out of the soil? If it's just a few days, they are fine and you just need to be a little more patient.

[swoodard]

Both tomatoes and peppers were planted on 2-17.

[rainbowgardener]

2/17 was when they were planted. That means the tomatoes actually showed them selves starting around 2/22 ish and the peppers a few days later?

If that is correct and they have actually been above ground for 2 wks, then they are being a bit slow. My tomato seedlings are further advanced than that, with true leaves, and they were planted on 2/22. If they were just slow germinating and have been above ground less time, that is less worrisome.

[swoodard]

So should I still be patient and leave them be? I have more on the bottom shelf planted 3-3 but haven't sprouted yet

[IndyGerdener]

Still looks like lights are not close enough. I put lights no more than 3-4" above the leaves. If the tags are up high enough they can touch my lights.

[swoodard]

So this morning. I see pepper leaves curling in pic below. What's up with this?

[rainbowgardener]

Not sure, could still be too much moisture. You should read the seed starting basics Sticky at the top of this section. Unfortunately, I find those peat pots like you are using to be seedling killers. They hold moisture like crazy, keep everything too wet and then if they finally start drying, they suck moisture away from the plant. You can't water from the bottom with them because they will get very wet and moldy, but bottom watering is best for little seedlings....

You are having to find all this out the hard way. But it is all good learning and the second time around will be a lot easier.

[applestar]

I have trouble judging whether seedlings need to be watered in the peat pots as well.

Two tests --

(1) press your finger onto the surface of the soil -- do you feel moisture and finger comes away damp with bits of soil mix stuck on it? If you finger feels dry, they may need to be watered.

...the trouble with this test is that if you are bottom watering correctly, often the top surface will not be damp and remain dry. The trick I have found is to let the mix get saturated/damp to the top only "every so often" (this is a variable term depends on size of plant, etc) but not all the time. This is a good test if you are watering from the top, however.

(2) does the bottom of the peat pot look damp (dark brown) or wet (black)?

By the time the seedlings are this size, the taproot will be long enough to reach the bottom of the peat pots. If the bottom is dried out, the seedlings will become dehydrated and the root tip will die. (root tip dying is not necessarily a bad thing for tomatoes and peppers, but will be critical for plants sensitive to root disturbance)

AGAIN, I have not been very successful with peat pots so YMMV

ANYONE using these successfully, please post tips.

[swoodard]

Yea I will never use them againg either. I guess I will be heading out to buy peeper and tomato plants from the store again this year. I was really looking forward to growing my own

[IndyGerdener]

It isn't to late. You can still do it. Do not give up

[applestar]

I agree -- don't give up.

I'm tempted to say get some Dixie cups, poke holes in the bottom and transplant one jiffy strip worth in good quality potting soil (I like Dr. Earth or Pro-Mix -- look for them at real Garden Centers not big box stores) and see how they do. You probably used these because you were unsure about transplanting, but it really isn't that difficult.

I'm still sowing more pepper seeds now even though it's almost a month later than normal. I started them 2/16 but these were old seeds and many of them didn't sprout -- these were older seeds (2010 and 2011). Also I may have overcooked them because I was taking temp readings at top of soil level but when I put the thermometer on the top of the plant light where I had them last week while starting some other seeds, I realized it was like 95° there

There's always something. It rarely happens that everything goes right.

[GardenFresh]

Instead of Dr. Earth or Pro Mix can you use something like FoxFarm ocean forest or will that be to "hot" for new seedlings?

I thought you were always supposed to start new seedlings in mix with nothing added?

Sorry to barge in on the thread but my pepper plants (which are potted in the peat pots are not doing well either) actually all my plants are not growing as quickly as you would think considering my light setup.

I am thinking about starting some new peppers (both bell and hot) in foam cups (1. so I can use better soil if possible / 2. so I can bottom water)

Any help would be greatly appreciated...Thanks

[rainbowgardener]

Yeah, as we've been saying, the peat pots really don't work very well.

I never use sterile seed starting mix. The seeds don't need nutrients to germinate and get started. But it doesn't hurt them if it is there. And by the time they have true leaves, they will start failing without some kind of nutrient. So why bother having them in the sterile mix, just a different thing to buy.

[applestar]

For starting seeds I "dilute" potting mix with sand. This year, I'm also mixing in pumice gravel and coir. Some people use vermiculite, perlite, and peat moss.

Having said I bought pumice gravel and coir, it may sound a but hypocritical, but I don't like buying FoxFarm products (as good as they sound) because that's from West coast somewhere. I actually like Gardener's Gold potting soil (I think it's called -- same mfr as BumperCrop in Maine) but my local garden center isnt taking care of them (kept under tarp out in the yeard) as carefully as Dr. Earth's which are kept in the greenhouse. I'm also looking for Vermont Compost, but so far no local distributer. For amendments, I'm trying to stick with Espoma, actually for more local resource.

Personally, I don't like to use styrofoam because I prefer soil mixes and amendments with biologically active soil microbes, and I believe they can break down styrofoam.

[GardenFresh]

RBG-

Thanks for always posting responses (as well as a few other folks..applestar) your help is certainly appreciated.

So, in your opinion....would you risk transplanting all my seedlings over to cups at this point? Thinking about little plastic cups (the kind for the bathroom you use for mouthwash)....

Just wanted to do something because it seems like they are just not doing as well as they should be...I know you should wait for true leaves and everything but at this point I will really be behind the eight ball if they all die!

Also, I just ordered a 9x19 heat mat off amazon so it should be here by Thursday....I plan on doing another set of peppers then and keeping them on the heat mat...especially at night. My basement temps go down to about 55 at night and I think that might be contributing to some of my issues....especially with the peppers!

[IndyGerdener]

I am planning on starting fresh pepper seeds this weekend. It isn't to late to start them. And there is no reason to throw the old ones away, might as well try to transplant them. I have started all my seed in baggies, transfered them to bathroom plastic dixi cups and then up potted to red solo cups. Never a problem. Remember holes in the bottoms of the cups and bottom water. I put the cups in a showbox sized rubbermaid container I paid $1 each for at Target.

Find your gardening Zin... It will come together

[swoodard]

I'm not going to throw them out but it looks like soon they will all be dead. I just don't understand the curling.

[swoodard]

I agree -- don't give up.

I'm tempted to say get some Dixie cups, poke holes in the bottom and transplant one jiffy strip worth in good quality potting soil (I like Dr. Earth or Pro-Mix -- look for them at real Garden Centers not big box stores) and see how they do. You probably used these because you were unsure about transplanting, but it really isn't that difficult.

I'm still sowing more pepper seeds now even though it's almost a month later than normal. I started them 2/16 but these were old seeds and many of them didn't sprout -- these were older seeds (2010 and 2011). Also I may have overcooked them because I was taking temp readings at top of soil level but when I put the thermometer on the top of the plant light where I had them last week while starting some other seeds, I realized it was like 95° there


There's always something. It rarely happens that everything goes right.

I found a lot of different pro mix. Can you check out this link and tell me if yours is listed? https://www.gardenharvestsupply.com/Prod ... /-c158.htm