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GardenRN
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"ripe" tomato seed

If a green tomato falls off a plant, but is allowed to ripen on the counter.......the seeds probably didn't mature all the way right? Or do we think they'd grow?
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Bobberman
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Good question! I would say dry a dozen seeds and plant them and see if they grow. If they do save them for rest next year!
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rockhound
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ripe seeds

I will say yes, if the tomato is ripe, the seeds are mature too.

Bobberman
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If that were true then most of the tomatoes you buy in the store that were not quite red when they piced them would have good seeds to plant!! At what point in a tomatoes growth are the seeds mature? Do the seeds actually grow once the tomatoi s picked or does the tomato just turn red with no further growth? That is a great question for this forum don't you think?
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GardenRN
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Bobberman wrote:If that were true then most of the tomatoes you buy in the store that were not quite red when they piced them would have good seeds to plant!! At what point in a tomatoes growth are the seeds mature? Do the seeds actually grow once the tomatoi s picked or does the tomato just turn red with no further growth? That is a great question for this forum don't you think?
I think most tomatoes from the store seeds WOULD grow. The problem you run into is they are probably 98% hybrid tomatoes. So you have unpredictable results from the seeds.
Jeff

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Bobberman
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Are they hybrid or just determinate?
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DoubleDogFarm
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Bobberman wrote:Are they hybrid or just determinate?
Determinate tomatoes bear their crop all at once, while indeterminate tomatoes bear fruit over the course of a season.

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GardenRN
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Yeah I don't think determinate or indeterminate would matter. Although for my own personal use, I don't like determinate at all.
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Dillbert
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hold on a second here . . . .

when the tomato blossom is pollinated, it develops and "sets seed"

from the plant's perspective a "red" tomato fruit is on it way to being rotten and dropping off the vine, spilling it's seed all over.

humans find "red" good.
some humans find "fried green tomato" good.

none of the human perception(s) have any bearing on what the plant thinks.


>>Are they hybrid or just determinate?
Bobber, don't mean to be an axx, but time for some research.
the two terms are not remotely related.

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>>Are they hybrid or just determinate?
Bobber, don't mean to be an axx, but time for some research.
the two terms are not remotely related
LMFAO

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TZ answered this question in [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=214072#214072]this thread[/url]:
TZ -OH6 wrote:When the tomato reaches a mature green stage (seed maturity) based on age and temperature the sap vessels in the bulge on the stem leading to the fruit are closed off and the fruit starts to produce ethlene gas (and other chemicals) internally which causes what we know as ripening (color changes, flavors develop, fruit softens). The ripening is independent of the plant or sunlight.

The grocery store tomatoes are picked before mature green stage and gassed with ethlene so they turn red and get soft...sort of.

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What I ment was that the store tomatoes are picked when they are just turning so a determinate would be at the same green stage to pick! When he said hybrid I don't think so. just like cambles souptomatoes they are always determinate like the heinze tomatoes. They form uniform and ripen all at once! thy may plant fields a week appart to get each field ripe at the same time. i don't think they would use tomatoes that ripen at different times! So are store seeds as viable as vine ripe tomatoes probably not right?
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DoubleDogFarm
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Bobberman wrote:What I ment was that the store tomatoes are picked when they are just turning so a determinate would be at the same green stage to pick! When he said hybrid I don't think so. just like cambles souptomatoes they are always determinate like the heinze tomatoes. They form uniform and ripen all at once! thy may plant fields a week appart to get each field ripe at the same time. i don't think they would use tomatoes that ripen at different times! So are store seeds as viable as vine ripe tomatoes probably not right?
Bobberman,

The point you are trying to make describes determinate tomatoes, except for the underlined part.

I pretty sure the big commercial tomato farmers are growing hybrid tomatoes. Not open-pollinated heirloom tomatoes. They are more resistent to diseases.

Hybrid vs. Open-pollinated
Determinate vs. Indeterminate

Two different categories.
Eric

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Ya probably Hybrid determinant is what they sell in the stores. When you see tomatoes that are uniform they are usually determinate!
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not to argue, but I think the uniformity is a trait of the hybrid plant. I accidentally got about half determinate tomatoes this year and they were definitely not uniform. That could be in part because of my sub-par growing conditions this year.

I basically dared my plants to survive. Way to go barrel garden! I have already started converting to 12" deep 4'x8' raised wooden beds for next year.
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Bobberman
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They also have semi determinate which I think has two crops !
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Okay first off uniform ripening can occur in ANY plant be it det or indet. Hybrid does play a role since it is genticaly implanted in a lot of grocery store varietys to fully ripen. If that is what you like than you are missing out on all the "real" tomatoes that are out there. Most if not all grocery store tomatoes have been bred to be fully ripe and perfect and red and in the interim of all this tasteless as well. Genes are funny it seems when they found out how to turn on the full ripe gene they somehow turned off the flavor gene so to speak. Google it.

As far as a window ripened tomato and viable seeds. Doesn't matter if it is det, indet, hybrid, heirloom or from Mars. If it is ripe so are the seeds. But take into consideration that with fall coming and weather not so good complete pollination may not be there. So you may not get as many seeds as early in the season when the variables are perfect for pollination.

Are we good now? :lol:

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GardenRN wrote:Yeah I don't think determinate or indeterminate would matter. Although for my own personal use, I don't like determinate at all.
Do you make sauce? If so Det can be a blessing setting a ton at once. Otherwise keep doing what you are doing RN. :wink: Just saying don't count them out. They have their purpose, that being said I have been more of an indet man myself but am looking more and more into det.

Dwarfs as well but for other reasons. :D

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GardenRN
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I do make sauce, lots. I understand what you're saying about the dets all being ready at once. But I prefer to try to have a butt load of plants giving me a long range of ripe tomatoes. I can always save em for a few days or even a week to get enough to make sauce. And then the sauce is a blend of different tomatoes.

I'm not a big fan of nothing, nothing, nothing, TOMATOES!, nothing, nothing, nothing lol.

I know they have their place, it's just not in my garden. :wink:
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As far as I know, tomato fruit is mature when its color is very light green. Then it turns to red (yellow, black) as a result of its maturity, and cames rippen (good for eat). This process is not related to light or temperature, because the plant stops fruit feeding. The rippening process happens like the fruit is (almost) not part of the plant anymore. I say 'almost' because the only supply fruit receives is a gas (ethylene I think) that fasts the rippening process

So if you have a very light green tomato fruit, seeds (in theory) are mature and they can be used for sowing. To be more sure (have a rippen fruit) you may roll it in a piece of paper and store at room temperature for 3-4 days. To help the process, you may put the tomato fruit (fruits) in a paper bag together with an apple (apple eliminates that ethylene gas that is good for rippening).



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