Seed starting basics for newbies

[rainbowgardener]

Hi rainbowgardener!

I have three questions:

1. Is it recommended to start ALL seeds in containers? I would really prefer to start my seeds in containers, as it seems that everytime the little seed packet says "start outdoors" I dig up and prepare a huge patch, only to have a handful even sprout.

2. Are the lights necessary? Can I just get any old fluroscent tubes at a hardware store? How long do they need to stay under these lights, usually?(I'm interested in sunflowers, strawberries, tomatoes, radishes)
I'm asking because I have no garage or attic to set up a whole chain-pulled light system, so I would have to resort to keeping the containers in my room, the lights propped up on books or whatever.

3. I'm really confused when it comes to compost, blood meal, bone meal, fertilizers, etc. I've never used anything like that, I don't have a compost pile, and no time to start one(I need to plant!). Do you have any articles explaining this? In terms of seed starting, can I buy these things at a hardware store? How much of what in each container?(I think I'll use yoghurt cups and nothing much bigger, and then transplant outside once they outgrow those)

Jeez louise, I'm sorry for bombarding you with all of this. If anyone else can answer, please do!
Thanks a ton in advance.

If you read back starting at the beginning of this thread, some of these questions have already been answered, but I'll try again.

1. Not all seed. It depends on what. Some things like carrots and root crops generally, do not transplant well and really need to be direct seeded in the ground. Some things that are quick growing and cold tolerant, like lettuce, there's not a whole lot of advantage to starting them indoors (and a little disadvantage in having to harden them off), so they typically are direct seeded, but can be started indoors if you want to. Advantage of starting indoors is that they can be babied more, more protection, perfect conditions.

2. Some supplemental light is pretty much necessary. This can be ordinary shop lights with fluorescent tubes. But the lights need to be just a couple inches over the plants. "sunflowers, strawberries, tomatoes, radishes" Strawberries are not started from seed, they are very difficult that way. Once danger of frost is past, look in garden stores or on line and buy plants. They are very cheap, like 25 plants for $12 and you only ever have to buy them once. Radishes are one of those root crops that you really need to plant directly in the ground. They are very fast and easy that way. Sunflowers are quick growing and don't really need to be started indoors, but can be. Tomatoes and peppers are the most commonly indoor started. They will end up being indoors under the lights, 8 - 10 weeks, depending on your climate. Your lighting set up doesn't need to take up very much room. If you have a spare closet somewhere, that works great as a little seed starting room.

3. Compost, blood meal, etc are soil additives for outdoors. For indoors all you need is basic potting soil with Miracle Gro already in it (which is the commonest way potting soil is sold).

[Aida]

Ok, thank you!

I'll read back more carefully to see the other answers as well.

[DoubleDogFarm]

For indoors all you need is basic potting soil with Miracle Gro already in it (which is the commonest way potting soil is sold).

Blah!

Eric

[rainbowgardener]

I do understand... I don't use the MG anywhere else, only for indoor seed starting and I am working on quitting that and making my own potting soil.

But for beginners, it really is the easiest and most fool proof, rather than trying to mess around with anything else for indoor seed starting, trying to figure out what to add when and how. I never recommend synthetics for outdoor/garden use.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I do understand... I don't use the MG anywhere else, only for indoor seed starting and I am working on quitting that and making my own potting soil.

But for beginners, it really is the easiest and most fool proof, rather than trying to mess around with anything else for indoor seed starting, trying to figure out what to add when and how. I never recommend synthetics for outdoor/garden use.

Rainbow, Just a little tease. It is good advice, but I'm pretty sure there are seed starting mixes, near everyone, without synthetic fertilizers.

Rainbow, I like this persons idea. Maybe you should give it try.

I also use my worm bin leachate for watering plants with. I just suck it out of the drip tray with a turkey baster and put it in the watering can and add water. I may not be diluting it quite as much as applestar, something like roughly 1 part leachate to 4 parts water. I just use it right away, so don't bother aerating.

I know it is not worm casting tea, but it is enriched organic stuff. I have to get it out of the tray anyway, so the tray doesn't overflow. So why not put it on my plants? Right now it is just house plants. Later it will be my indoor seedlings.

Eric

[rainbowgardener]

[Jardin du Fort]

I have some 1/2" thick cedar left over from the fence, and have been planning on using it to make some seed flats. I know that 3" and 6" (?) are "standard" depths, but was wondering what the typical dimensions of a wood seed flat are? 10" x 20" 12" x 18" does it matter?

[rainbowgardener]

It only matters in that it fits your space/equipment. I use 10x20" trays, because the cell inserts fit in them, the 3.5" square pots fit evenly in them. 20" is the depth of my counter that they sit on. And two 2-tube fluorescent shop lights run crosswise across them cover the whole flat with light.

You might have other equipment/space constraints.

[applestar]

One aspect you might consider is the weight of moistened soil mix+wood that has absorbed moisture+the largest size plants growing in them. Would you be able to lift them/move them around easily? You are less likely to want to work with them if they take effort to do so.

The other is if you are using lights, the best configuration seems to be 4 tubes across the rectangular flats laid perpendicular to the direction of the tubes, but if you are making custom sizes, you could maybe make 1/2 the standard 1020 size.

You might also want to consider how many would neatly fit on the grow shelf or bench/table you will be using. Remember this might be related to the weight question -- i.e. existing surfaces or new surfaces that can support the weight without bowing, etc that may interfere with even watering.

ALSO, it's a coincidence that you mentioned using fence pickets because I recently received soil block makers as a gift and was thinking about making trays to hold the blocks out of them. If you ever consider soil blocks, you'll want sizes that would accomodate the sizes of your blocks neatly and will want one of the sides to be removable, though if you are handy, you may just make custom trays separate from seed flats. Wish I had leftover cedar pickets like you though.

[imafan26]

I actually start my seed outdoors but because single cells take up too much space on my bench,(some cells always die off), I grow in compots (community pots).
I like to use 4 or six inch pots or recycled tofu containers. It is best for me to have a large surface area but only 2-3 inches deep.
I use moistened peatlite with a little osmocote added. Peat is hard to wet so it is important that the media be moistened first. I've also used Miracle grow potting soil. It works but is more expensive than peatlite. I sometimes will use recycled potting mix.
I put anywhere from 4 (cucumber) to 15 (pepper, mesclun) or more (green onions) in a pot.
The pot goes out on an open bench on trays. I use a second tray as a cover for pepper seeds. The doves will pick the seeds out of the pots if I don't. I water the bench once a day unless it rains hard enough.
Once the plants have sprouted and have true leaves I transplant to larger pots or to the ground.[/b]

[LindaD]

Thanks for the good seed starting info. I enjoyed reading it and alwys learn something new. The picture shows a good, organized setup...Think I should strive for that and clean up my work area before starting seeds this week...happy germinating!
p.s must clean up my pots well inadvance and am trying out coir pots for the first time!

[lisbonslady]

Great info, thanks... this is my first year really starting seeds and I'm excited but it seems I have already made some choices that are not ideal.

I have a heat pad and a plastic tray but I have small peat pots as I thought they would work better to transplant... but they are small, I can fit 50 cells on the tray... and I am starting tomatoes and peppers to plant outdoors in 6 weeks and I am guessing they will need to be transplanted before then.

A few questions - I don't have a dome but I did cover them with plastic wrap until they sprout - is that a good thing to do? The plastic is almost touching the soil and I am hoping that's ok...

Since I have the peat pots is mold the major concern when I bottom water? Anything else I should be careful with with them?

Also I did use seed starting mix - how would I fertilize later when they have true leaves - with something diluted in the water?

oh boy, so much to learn! Thanks in advance

[rainbowgardener]

We have a whole thread going in this section http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... 3&start=30
which started with some other seed starting issues and evolved into people's difficulty with peat pots.

Linda - I am now using coconut coir in my homemade potting soil to replace peat. Environmentally it is more sustainable, being grown, rather than mining a fossil resource. But as a pot, I would think all the problems that apply to peat pots would apply to coir ones.

The major concern with peat (and probably coir) pots is all the issues about managing water. I really don't think you can bottom water with them, not only will they get moldy, they will keep the water and your soil may not get properly moist. If you can get the soil moist enough, either bottom or top watering, the peat pots don't let it dry out as it needs to. Eventually if the pot starts drying, it will suck the water away from the plants.

And if you got them thinking you could just transplant seedlings IN the pots and they will biodegrade, DON'T do it. The pots don't biodegrade in any reasonable time to help the seedlings and the roots will be smothered in there. You have to take the seedlings out of the peat pots. Usually the only way to do that is to tear/peel the pots off, because the roots will have grown in to them.

Honestly if you just started, I would start over with plastic. Starting out I use the little cells, 72 cells to a 1020 tray

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prod ... ys-inserts

If you read the beginning of this thread, I do not use humidity domes at all. They may (?) benefit some seeds, but they aren't necessary and they quickly become a liability. And it just aggravates all the moisture problems of the peat pots. I would just remove the plastic and you HAVE to remove it as soon as the first seeds sprout, which means you have to watch all the time to see when that is. Sometimes seeds sprout overnight.

The reason they sell seed starting mix (other than to get $$ out of your pocket) is that seeds don't need any fertility to germinate and get started. But once your seedlings have their true leaves, they will need some kind of nutrients. What you use for that depends on your philosophy - it could be VERY dilute miracle grow type stuff, it could be commercial organic fertilizer, it could be fish emulsion if you don't have cats in the house, it could be AACT compost tea (we have a whole huge Sticky thread on that in the compost section) . But basically yes, something in the water, until you transplant in to regular potting mix that does have nutrients.

Best Wishes and next time, come here first! It makes me mad that these days there's this whole big seed starting industry that exists to sell people things they don't need (fancy expensive seed starting kits with humidity domes) that often (peat pots) are actively injurious to growing seeds.

[MissChris]

Awsome thread, thanks for all the tips. This is my first year starting seeds and I think the only thing I did right was the grow lights lol.
My tomatoes just sprouted a few days ago, so I am going to dig out the heating pads in hopes that they don't get leggy like the broccoli is!

[rainbowgardener]

Leggy is not about heat, it is about light. The heat is most important for germination. Once well started, they can do without it (though they will continue to grow faster with more warmth for awhile). Leggy is they are not getting enough light, so they are stretching to try to find some.