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PunkRotten
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Cell trays worth it?

Hi,

I am tempted to buy one of those 72 cell trays at home depot. Is it really worth it? What I like about it is the cells are perfect size to start seeds. I was planning to use newspaper pots I made myself. I would make small ones similar in size to those tiny cells, and then increase the size when the time came.


It also has the dome over it to keep moisture in. It seems like it would make seed starting more convenient. I won't even be doing 72 plants, probably more like half of that only. Do some of you not use them and is it worth it to get?

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jnunez918
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I used a bunch of miscellanous container this go around and it was a pain to keep organized by item and to bring outside on a sunny day. A couple years ago I used the seed starting kits and I remember having soooo much more success with getting seedlings. I've already have a 72 cell with peat chips and cover and I think it also has a wet mat. Found it on amazon when I was looking for a greenhouse kit. Got a 5-shelf plastic cover type greenhouse which will be perfect right outside my back door so on good days I can quickly put seedlings outside before work. I'd give it a try they won't break the bank.

dustyrivergardens
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what plants would you start in the 72 cell tray?

Bobberman
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Don't buy them at lowes too expensive . Look at a garden center that sells the black plastic containers in a variety of cells. You can buy the cells in 72 , 48 and other cells. They are like $1.25 for the 72 or 48. I like the 48 which is bigger and you can keep plants in them longer! The incert that they fit in either with holes or sealed to hold water are about a $1..
+++
They are good to transfer plants or simply start the seeds in! I myself use a box wooden or styrofoam about 4 inches deep and start my seeds and transfer some to the cubes when they are about 3 to 4 inches high! Shrumway in the back of the catalog sells the plastic cells in about 4 or five varities for about $1 depending on how many you buy! You can make nice boxes using furing strips for the sides and a laun or plywood for the bottom and they are cheap and easy to make!

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Since I buy like 20 for the same price as 5 from lowes its better for me. I simply put a sheet of plostic on the top till the seeds emerge. I put 4 flats together with one sheet of clear plastic to keep in moistue! For broccoli , cabbage brussele sprouts or peppers the smaller cubes are great but for tomatoes or zucks or any vine crop I prefer the 48 cells!

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applestar
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I bought a 72-cell tray at a store-closing sale and used it once....

My experience is that unless you are growing 72 identical kind of plants from seed, 72-cell is a nightmare as different seeds germinate at different times and different seedlings grow at different rates and at different heights. You also need a perfectly level surface to water them properly and evenly.

The clear plastic dome that comes with it is completely useless IMO because it's too tall and blocks the light tubes AND you'll be taking them away as soon as the seedlings emerge anyway. :roll:

This year though, I'm thinking of growing buffalo grass plugs and am planning to use the 72-cell tray.

For the rest, I prefer to use a community 3-4" container for each group of same seeds, then separate them into deeper or same depth individual or community pots according to height/growth rate of same kind of seedlings.

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PunkRotten
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dustyrivergardens wrote:what plants would you start in the 72 cell tray?
Everything; Tomatoes, peppers, herbs, flowers etc

dustyrivergardens
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The reason I asked is because my tomatoes I just plant a few seeds in a pot then when the get there true leafs I break them up and plant them in individual pots tomatoes are pretty tough. I do the same with my peppers. The only Time I use the trays is for flowers, broccoli and cauliflower there are a few things. I just find it easier to do it that way.

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The nice thing about the plastic cells is pulling out the whole root system in one piece with little stress to the plant! I can let the tomato get a foot tall in the 48 cels and transplant to the garden easily! The 72 cells the roots are to tight in the cell! vine crops are the same but anything in the cabbage family work great in the 72 cells! They even have the 24 cells and 36 cell but bigger is not always better or easier! if you plan to sell the the 4 pack or 6 pack in the flat works best. the 72 cell flat has 6 twelve packs or 8 -- 9 packs and takes more work for the money!

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PunkRotten
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dustyrivergardens wrote:The reason I asked is because my tomatoes I just plant a few seeds in a pot then when the get there true leafs I break them up and plant them in individual pots tomatoes are pretty tough. I do the same with my peppers. The only Time I use the trays is for flowers, broccoli and cauliflower there are a few things. I just find it easier to do it that way.
Yeah sounds like I could avoid using these trays with the cells. I am not even growing much. I am doing 5 tomatoes, 5 peppers, 4 basil plants, few bush beans, 2 cape gooseberry (similar to tomato), other herbs like cilantro and yarrow, and several flowers. I am planning cukes and some melons but I will plant these right into the ground. I was thinking for the stuff that will be started in pots just using newspaper pots and then upping the size after awhile. But I am not gonna be using any lights just taking it outside.

I may buy one of those mini greenhouses for convenience.

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I got a 72 cell insert, dome and tray for about $5 at Walter Andersens' To test the "water" per se on the process.

I cut the 72 cell insert into 4 , and used a quarter (18 cells) for:

9 cells of kale , 6 cells of mesclun, 3 cells of bunching onions.

Last weekend I transplanted the kale & mesclun into 4" pots.

I believe you need to overseed 20% of what plants you want to grow. I must say that is about the ration that worked since I forgot mid way before transplanting to water from the bottom for seedlings- as some of them croaked, and/or caused green mold on the mix surface. Air circulation helped, but some of em started to lean over and flopped. I should be getting my 2nd T5 light so,I should be able to fill more cells without the seedlings getting lop-sided reaching for the light.

Oh, and a heat mat sits perfectly under the trays. (10x20").

I plan on starting 12 tomato & 12 chiles+ 20%, so round up to 1 seed x18 cells -per. Also start some herbs.

Then I learned about using the 8 - 16 oz plastic margarine, cream cheese type containers for a bunch of seed to emerg then transplant to small pots. I'll give that a test run. But filling w/ mix in cells makes for easy leveling so , they are all the same depth. I would assume with wider containers there will be depth and uniformity issues.
With the tray/insert everything is arranged and easy to manuvre and tiddy. An extra makes easy watering. and switching to another without over soaking.


T

Tonio
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Bobberman wrote:The nice thing about the plastic cells is pulling out the whole root system in one piece with little stress to the plant! I can let the tomato get a foot tall in the 48 cels and transplant to the garden easily! The 72 cells the roots are to tight in the cell! vine crops are the same but anything in the cabbage family work great in the 72 cells! They even have the 24 cells and 36 cell but bigger is not always better or easier! if you plan to sell the the 4 pack or 6 pack in the flat works best. the 72 cell flat has 6 twelve packs or 8 -- 9 packs and takes more work for the money!
Isn't the idea of starting small and up potting to strengthen the seedlings- for tomato , peppers?
I do agree: the 72 cells seems small however & they are easy to transplant out the cells

T

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I start my seeds in a box them put them in the cells when they are 4 to 6 inches tall sometimes sooner! I only up pot once since I have 40 dozen plants or more! I always plan on selling them at the flea mart but end up giving most away!

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rainbowgardener
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I use the 48 cell inserts from greenhousemegastore.com Way cheaper than big box. I do like it, for keeping everything compact, fitting a lot of seedlings on a heat mat, fitting nicely into a tray for bottom watering, etc. And I do often have 48 of one thing (or more!).

But NO humidity domes -- they are seedling killers!

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I have been a member here for three full spring seed-starting seasons (2009 through 2011) and have seen *many* tales of woe by gardeners who purchased "complete seed-starting kits" which included moisture-retaining domes.

Next thing you know, these poor folk are posting about their seedlings lying down flat on the potting medium, looking as if something has "pinched" them right at the soil line.

Well, it has, more or less...the damping-off fungus has killed the seedlings, because that !@#$^%$ dratted moisture-retaining dome kept the seedlings way too wet, and the fungus thrived, much to the detriment of the seedlings.

If you lust after "complete seed-starting kits," can give them a perfectly flat watering surface, want to plant all the same kind of seed (as far as water needs, temp needs, and other culture needs), and don't mind transplanting dozens of tiny cubes of soil into dozens of small pots, AT LEAST TAKE OFF THE MOISTURE DOMES.

This public service announcement brought to you by a mod who has seen way too many seedlings needlessly killed by the use of "moisture domes," and way too many new gardeners discouraged by same. :(

Thank you.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

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PunkRotten
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On the site wintersown.com they use containers with lids and put this out during the winter and say it does a great job of germinating the seeds. The seeds pop on their own when it is time and your plants get hardened off better this way.

Tonio
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cynthia_h wrote: This public service announcement brought to you by a mod who has seen way too many seedlings needlessly killed by the use of "moisture domes," and way too many new gardeners discouraged by same. :(

Thank you.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
+100 , get that dome off as soon as the seed comes up !! :D

I prop the dome a tad to let some air circulate for germination, then remove it when they come up.

T

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Bobberman wrote:Since I buy like 20 for the same price as 5 from lowes its better for me. I simply put a sheet of plostic on the top till the seeds emerge. I put 4 flats together with one sheet of clear plastic to keep in moistue! For broccoli , cabbage brussele sprouts or peppers the smaller cubes are great but for tomatoes or zucks or any vine crop I prefer the 48 cells!
Its nice to have the 72 because then you can cut out a few from a corner and it makes watering them easier. Just pour some water down into the bottom tray and let it wick up.

I didn't get to read all the responses, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. But keep in mind, one problem you may have with starting several different varieties of seeds in the same domed tray is that different veggies have different germination time. Usually you leave the dome on until they pop out of the dirt and take it off to avoid mold and damping off. But if you have, for example, tomatoes and cukes in the same tray, when they sprout can be a week or more apart.

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lol....that was definitely heartfelt cynthia! And while I do see the inherent dangers of damping off, I have been quite lucky. I have had quite a good run with the cell packs and domes. I have been very good though, about removing the dome when about 1/3 of the seeds have sprouted and letting it to a good bit of drying out. I'll use mine again, cautiously.

Would using a sterile seed starting mix and purified water prevent, or at least slow down damping off? Or is it strictly from the amount of moisture.

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Peat moss deters damping off! Most potting mixes have it in!

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I have the 72 cell tray, actually twenty of them. Along with a 120 cell, 200 cell. I love them all. I highly recommend the support trays that go under them, otherwise with soil they get heavy and crack when you try to pick them up. I use them for everything from propagating cuttings to veggie seeds to tree seeds.

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GardenRN wrote:lol....that was definitely heartfelt cynthia! And while I do see the inherent dangers of damping off, I have been quite lucky. I have had quite a good run with the cell packs and domes. I have been very good though, about removing the dome when about 1/3 of the seeds have sprouted and letting it to a good bit of drying out. I'll use mine again, cautiously.

Would using a sterile seed starting mix and purified water prevent, or at least slow down damping off? Or is it strictly from the amount of moisture.
Damping off is carried in the air, to my knowledge. I've had seedlings go down to it while planted in native soil, raised-bed mix (Mel's mix and also my "improved Mel's mix"), and potting soil/compost mixtures in seed-starting, 2- to 3-inch pots. None of them were under moisture domes, but I live in a climate which can have fog most months of the year. :(

Cynthia

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So you are saying you are in a fog all of the time! Just kidding!.Damping off seems to occur more ofen when the plants are weak or are not getting enough light. Weak plants can't fight off fungas as much! So I think what you say is right the damping off disease is in the air and effects weak or over watered plants more often! Peat moss gets dry on the surface and that may be what protects the plant stems!

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Bobberman wrote:So you are saying you are in a fog all of the time! Just kidding!.Damping off seems to occur more ofen when the plants are weak or are not getting enough light. Weak plants can't fight off fungas as much! So I think what you say is right the damping off disease is in the air and effects weak or over watered plants more often! Peat moss gets dry on the surface and that may be what protects the plant stems!
1) Please don't shout at me with exclamation points.

2) Seedlings are, by their very nature, weak. They are the plant equivalent of infants. We wouldn't expect infants to fight off, say, the flu or something else, so we protect them as best we can. Same with seedlings: we protect them as best we can by giving them the best conditions we can provide. However, as every gardener knows, Mother Nature has the last say, and in my climate (and perhaps others?), it's simply not possible for every planting cycle to be successful.

Cynthia

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In my experience potting soil with peat moss does NOT deter damping off. The nature of peat moss and why they put it in potting soil is to hold moisture. Holding moisture is what creates conditions favorable to damping off. And it is not my experience that damping off only happens to "weak" seedlings (except in the cynthia sense that all seedlings are weak and vulnerable) or that it has anything to do with lack of light. I've posted pictures of my set up. My light tubes run cross ways of my seedling trays so 4 tubes cross one tray, 3" above the plants and on for 16 or 17 hrs a day. And I have still had some get damped off at times.

In my experience damping off relates only to two things: amount of moisture and amount of air circulation. One thing about my set up, all those lights down that close to the trays makes for limited air circulation. I really need to get a little personal fan to move some air around. I think that would help alot. I somehow never manage to do that, because they only sell those little fans in the summer and then I'm done with seed starting and not thinking about it :)

But in the meantime since I started keeping a little cinnamon and chamomile in the pitcher of water I water with, I no longer have trouble with fungus gnats or damping off.

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I am thinking about getting this to start my seeds https://www.amazon.com/Gardman-R687-4-Tier-Mini-Greenhouse/dp/B000NCTGQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325962439&sr=8-1

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Those are pretty good, just watch the temp depending on where you put it- as it can get pretty warm in there with direct sunlight.

I just assembled mine this past weekend. I will be using it for hardening off seedlings and misc started plants. Just trying to find the best location as the sun angle really weird now.
I'll be putting a thermometer in there to test the temps.
T

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Can I use this exclusively for starting seeds?

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When peat moss gets dry water runs right off of it and so I think it protects the surface from damping off plants! peat moss under the surface may hold more moisture since the air does not hit it directly! makes sense to me!

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PunkRotten wrote:Can I use this exclusively for starting seeds?
Should be OK, YMMV but I started arugala and some others I can't remember years ago. I made the mistake then and kept them in there and when it got hot out, they fried. So may want to move them out soon after seeds emerg, or change the amount of direct sunlight it gets. You can ventilate to a degree since it has a zippered opening. Obviously the top shelf would get hotter than the bottom.

Toms, peppers- really can't vouch if will work, it needs to be about 75F+ to germinate. May bee too cool @ night.


I suppose opening it would give some wind exposure for the minor hardening off the seedlings may need prior to transplanting in ground. You still may need a hardeneinig off period.
Thats always the hard part for me - hardening off. Working hours prohibits getting progressive sunlight - how do you folks do it away at work?

T

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PunkRotten
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I was doing some readin about the pros and cons to some of those mini greenhouses. And a lot of people said things like the plants can get mold, dampen off, fry etc if kept zipped up. Soem other people said a solution is to leave open/ventilated during the day and then zip up at night.

This is once the plants are up. I was thinking that since they are outdoors they would get hardened off on their own.

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Well yeah..

open during the day so it don't cook, then close at night- lower temps, protect em !

Its still a enclosed ( even if partially :wink: ) structure. It does change the ambient nature of being totally outside & in ground/pot. Damping off, mold is of course possible- in or outside. Its all related to all things considered.

BTW man, Amazon raised the prices? Your link had a higher price when I got a new one late last year- my old one- the plastic covering is starting to disintegrate around the zipper stitching and such-guessing about 5 years old.
Suppose everyone's itching grow eh?

T

Tonio
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PunkRotten wrote:
This is once the plants are up. I was thinking that since they are outdoors they would get hardened off on their own.
oops, forgot about this...

Good question! Not sure, can anyone confirm? It is enclosed even in a partial manner.

I'd say the only way to now is ,try it. Its all about the situation and microclimate and what you provide as a means of growing the plants since man(us) is manipulating the germinating/growth in some degree. So , for us its a matter of frugal expenditure vs what we can afford for our benefit, no?

Share with us which ever way you go, and experience. IMO, that's where the fun is-learning from our mistakes and successes.


T

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PunkRotten
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At first I was going to use newspaper pots and take them outdoors during the day then indoors at night. But I was thinking instead of all that work, I could use containers to make mini greenhouses. They have a site called wintersown.com that shows you this.

The problem is that with the mini greenhouse containers you can only fit so much soil, or they can only allow a plant to go so high before you have to transplant to something else.


But if I bought the mini greenhouse I linked it would be the same thing kinda and would leave out some hassle. and I don't mind the cost. Plus I could reuse it. I happened to see that same mini greenhouse from the amazon link at lowes the other day. I may pick it up from there.

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I start most of my plants in 4 to 5 inch deep syrofoam grape boxes wih 4 or more inches of mixed dirt and potting soils .I leave the plants get about 4 inches to 6 inches before I put them into flats with 24 cells or I put them in 6 inch pots! I thin them in the grape boxes and leave several dozen get a foot high that I plant directly into the garden! I do this with pepper tomatoes and even some flowers! The deeper soil does not dry out as fast as shallow containers and I get nicer root development!

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Tonio - Re Working hours prohibits getting progressive sunlight - how do you folks do it away at work?

I do it mostly with where I put the plants. I have a long planter bench on my deck. I start by putting the plants out UNDER the bench before I leave for work. They get no direct sun there, but some indirect light and are protected from wind. They come in when I get home from work. Once they are used to that then they come out from under the bench, but sit in the back corner of the deck next to the house, where they get only a little bit of direct sun and are still protected. Then they can go to the front of the deck or on top of the planter bench, where they will get some hours of morning sun and less protection. Once it's warm enough and they are hardened enough that they are not coming in at night and they are adapted to the morning sun/less protection, then they get moved to a similar location to where they will be, but still in pots, so if need be, they can be brought back to protection. If they are doing fine that way, then they get planted. This process takes at least a week, often more depending on how much the weather cooperates.

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rainbowgardener wrote:Tonio - Re Working hours prohibits getting progressive sunlight - how do you folks do it away at work?

I do it mostly with where I put the plants. I have a long planter bench on my deck. I start by putting the plants out UNDER the bench before I leave for work. They get no direct sun there, but some indirect light and are protected from wind. They come in when I get home from work. Once they are used to that then they come out from under the bench, but sit in the back corner of the deck next to the house, where they get only a little bit of direct sun and are still protected. Then they can go to the front of the deck or on top of the planter bench, where they will get some hours of morning sun and less protection. Once it's warm enough and they are hardened enough that they are not coming in at night and they are adapted to the morning sun/less protection, then they get moved to a similar location to where they will be, but still in pots, so if need be, they can be brought back to protection. If they are doing fine that way, then they get planted. This process takes at least a week, often more depending on how much the weather cooperates.
Thanks RBG. Its been awhile since I set out seeldings for hardening off. My garden is on the north side, and I forgot to take notes last early spring on the sun cast. I think I can deal with that, but can get windy. Normally we can get some gloomy springs , so hopefully it should be doable.
T

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I mostly use 128 cell trays with fine germination mix. I've never had a damp off problem. Maybe because there's so little soil to stay soggy and the triangular shape drains nicely. They're not labor saving though-you have to water more often & the seedlings have to be potted up into 3 or 4 inchers (or into cups or whatever) after they reach an inch and a half or so.

I like 'em because you can start alot in a small space and you don't need tons of expensive germination mix. I use an artist's palette knife to lift 'em out.

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I just bought a Hydrofarm 72 cell germination kit. It came with the greenhouse lid, and heat mat included. I wish I had seen this thread before I had made a final decision on purchasing it.:? I don't want to give up on it before I've even tried it.

The kit came with azos(azospirullum brasilense), and mycorrhizal powder. The lid does have a vent at the top so that extensive moisture does not build up. Should I just leave the lid completely off to prevent fungal infections? And if I do leave the lid off, how do I keep the cells hydrated? Won't the heat mat dry them out?

The kit says you can use your favorite growth medium, or starter cubes. There's so many opinions here about soil on these kits. What growth medium is recommended?

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Should I just leave the lid completely off to prevent fungal infections? And if I do leave the lid off, how do I keep the cells hydrated? Won't the heat mat dry them out?

I don't use covers at all, but especially with the vent, you can use it while the seeds are germinating. I would still take it off once some seeds have sprouted. Yes the cells do dry out faster with the heat mat. But the idea of the cells in trays is you can bottom water. Just put some water in the bottom of the tray and let the soil soak it up. So I just give the ones on the heat mats a little more water. But once a day is still generally enough, just don't have to be quite so sparing. The ones not on the heat mat don't necessarily get watered every single day, depending on how damp they seem.



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