Starting Peppers and Tomatoes...basics please

[jordanleereynols]

This is my first year of starting plants indoors. I have no real problem buying more mature peppers and tomato plants later in the year, but I would get a lot more satisfaction out of starting them.

All I need is basics for starting them. I have them planted in the same planter, with the most expensive potting soil ACE had. The basic questions I have, mostly from reading things on here is:

1: should I be using a heating pad and only a heating pad until I get germination?

2: should I be using a light and only a light once the plants sprout?

3: should the light be on the plants 24/7? I'm not sure this is feesible for me, I'm afraid of fire hazard.

Thank you for your help....and hello to everyone on here, as this is my first post....long time site stalker though haha

[rainbowgardener]

Yes your tomatoes and peppers will germinate a lot better on a heating pad (or some other source of warmth). Once they get the first true leaves, I take them off the heating pad.

Yes you will need some lighting. In general, just window light isn't enough. A regular fluorescent tube in shop light fixture works fine. But it needs to be just 2-3 inches above the plants, on a chain so that it can be raised as the plants grow.

No, not 24/7. Like the rest of us, plants need some rest time. 16 hrs a day of light is fine. You can get timers cheap, but I just do it manually--turn the lights on when I get up and turn them off when I'm going to bed.

Best wishes, hope it goes well for you! It's definitely time to get started. I started my peppers end of January, tomatoes Valentine's day. Next year you may want to start a little earlier -- at least for those of us that like to have ripe tomatoes in June!

[wordwiz]

Actually, you can go 24/7 for both peppers and toms for a few weeks. The benefit is significantly larger plants. There is a thread in both Garden Web and The Hot Pepper forum where a guy did a side-by-side test, one 24/7, the other 16/8. Impressive results! However, after 6-8 weeks, it can cause problems and decreased production.

Mike

[rainbowgardener]

Well everyone has different combinations of factors. But I've tried the 24/7 on tomatoes and in my conditions I felt like it made them bigger but weaker. They were taller, not leggy, not long internodal spaces, leafy, but thinner stemmed and paler green. Just generally seemed a bit weaker, like they were being exhausted. Just my take on it. Haven't tried it on peppers.

[lovely_star]

I'm starting seeds for my 1st veggie garden this month. This is the first time I am hearing about needing grow lights. None of the gardening books I've read so far have mentioned anything about them. I assumed seedlings were just placed in a sunny area. Do I need grow lights for just tomatoes and peppers? What about other veggies? Here's my seedling list: cabbage, tomato, lettuce, celery, radicchio, kale, peppers, rosemary, herbs (basil, parsley, oregano, thyme) broccoli, flowers (marigold, lavender, petunias).

Do all of seedlings need grow lights?

[Strive2Survive]

It is my understanding that grow lights are beneficial, but not necessary.

[wordwiz]

Seedlings need light, no matter whether it is from the sun or artificial lights. The number of hours per day depends on the intensity and quality of the light. If you have a window, where they will get bright sunlight for at least six hours a day, almost every day of the week, they will do okay. But if not, you need to provide artificial lighting.

But, a lot of places are advertising "grow lights" with the connotation they are miracle workers that will produce 10" seedlings in four weeks. A lot of these merchants also sell bridges! Any shop light, with Daylight Bulbs, will produce fantastic seedlings. An array of 13-23 watt CFL bulbs will to, as will Metal Halide bulbs (but not High Pressure Sodium - wrong spectrum). Some LEDs work great, but not the cheap panels. For the most part, LEDs are still, much to my dismay, overpriced, under performing, not yet state-of-the-art concoctions that should be avoided unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket.

Two, $10 shop lights (plus four bulbs) will easily support four standard size nursery flats - anywhere from 72-288 seedlings, depending on what size cells you select.

Mike

[rainbowgardener]

Agreed. "Grow lights" in the sense of fancy lights designed for plants are not necessary. Some lighting is. As wordwiz says if you happen to have a window that gets direct sun at least 6 hrs a day, perhaps you can start seeds indoors in front of a window. (And of course if you are planting outdoors we aren't talking about adding additional light this discussion was all about starting seeds indoors ). But even then, putting plant in front of a window, the light only comes from one side. So your seedlings will always be leaned towards the light and will be getting less light than the same number of hours outside when the light is all around. So you will need to be rotating them all the time and they will still be less happy and healthy, because each side is getting only part of the hours.

Some plants, the kind we use for house plants, are shade tolerant so ok with the less hours of sun. But trying to start peppers, tomatoes etc, those are full sun plants.

So personally I would say, to start veggie and full-sun flowers from seeds indoors, yes some supplemental lighting is pretty much a necessity.

lovely_star I'm not quite sure I understood your questions. You talked about just putting seedlings in a sunny area. Does that mean outside? Then no they don't need any other lighting. Also you talked about seedlings. Do you mean plants, are you buying plants? Or did you mean starting seeds? Plants do better in a window sill than trying to start seeds that way, because they have more leaf area to collect what light is available.

Also that is a very diverse list of plants. cabbage, tomato, lettuce, celery, radicchio, kale, peppers, rosemary, herbs (basil, parsley, oregano, thyme) broccoli, flowers (marigold, lavender, petunias).

Cabbage, celery, radicchio, kale, parsley, thyme, broccoli are cold weather crops. If you are planting seeds they could be planted outdoors now ("as soon as the soil can be worked"). If you have plants, they could be hardened off to be planted outdoors. My cold weather crops have been in the ground for a couple weeks already, and I'm probably in about the same zone as you.

The rest is warm weather stuff that doesn't go out until all danger of frost is past.

[Halfway]

6500k for "growth". 5000k will work, but not as effective. This is true for floro tubes or CFL.

If the label or box does not say what k rating, keep looking. 2000-4000k will be much LESS effective with your starts and will cause excessive inter-nodal length.

[lovely_star]

Cabbage, celery, radicchio, kale, parsley, thyme, broccoli are cold weather crops. If you are planting seeds they could be planted outdoors now ("as soon as the soil can be worked"). If you have plants, they could be hardened off to be planted outdoors. My cold weather crops have been in the ground for a couple weeks already, and I'm probably in about the same zone as you. The rest is warm weather stuff that doesn't go out until all danger of frost is past.

Rainbow...I'm starting everything from seed, not plants. By sunny area I mean indoors in the kitchen near windows. Do you think I should direct sow all my cool weather crops and start the remainder of the list indoors?

[Dixana]

Frist of all Welcome!

I have them planted in the same planter, with the most expensive potting soil....

The only thing I have to add is about the soil. When starting seeds, you want to use a sterile medium. Usually you would use seed starter until they are up potted the first time, then use soil.

GL.

[rainbowgardener]

Cabbage, celery, radicchio, kale, parsley, thyme, broccoli are cold weather crops. If you are planting seeds they could be planted outdoors now ("as soon as the soil can be worked"). If you have plants, they could be hardened off to be planted outdoors. My cold weather crops have been in the ground for a couple weeks already, and I'm probably in about the same zone as you. The rest is warm weather stuff that doesn't go out until all danger of frost is past.

Rainbow...I'm starting everything from seed, not plants. By sunny area I mean indoors in the kitchen near windows. Do you think I should direct sow all my cool weather crops and start the remainder of the list indoors?

Interesting question and every one does things differently. I think at this point since you are getting a bit of a late start for cool weather crops (I plant seeds of a number of cool weather crops in January), I would plant the leafy stuff seeds directly in the ground now... kale, parsley, raddichio. The rest I'd still plant in pots just because you can give it more protection and nicer soil more even watering etc. But I would keep the pots outdoors, so the plants are already hardened off and used to outdoor conditions and don't have any more adjusting to do.

The warm weather crops start indoors now. They benefit greatly from some heat to germinate the seeds. I use regular heating pads under the trays, but you could put them on top of the refrigerator, put them over or under incandescent bulbs that give off heat or whatever. But now we are back to where this discussion started and your baby plants once sprouted will do much better with supplemental lighting not just a window. But we all learn from experience, you can try the window and see what happens and then you will know for next time.

Re dixana's comment on sterile seed starting medium. I know that's what they say and that baby seedlings don't need fertilizer initially, because they come with their own supply. But to start them in sterile seed starting medium and then move them to potting soil, for me would mean keeping two big bags of different soils around. I just use MG potting soil from the beginning and it works fine for me. I have started tons of seeds that way every year for decades now.

[ruggr10]

This is a great site for starting pepper and tomato seeds. I bought some seeds from her this year and they have done great!

https://amishlandseeds.com/garden_tips.htm

[wordwiz]

This is a great site for starting pepper and tomato seeds. I bought some seeds from her this year and they have done great!

https://amishlandseeds.com/garden_tips.htm

25¢ per tomato seed! You've got to be kidding. Even for common types like Riesentraube. I admit, I have paid as much as 50¢ per seed but those were for very special, greenhouse seeds that produce for nine months or more or are parthenocarpic.

Mike

[lovely_star]

Cabbage, celery, radicchio, kale, parsley, thyme, broccoli are cold weather crops. If you are planting seeds they could be planted outdoors now ("as soon as the soil can be worked"). If you have plants, they could be hardened off to be planted outdoors. My cold weather crops have been in the ground for a couple weeks already, and I'm probably in about the same zone as you. The rest is warm weather stuff that doesn't go out until all danger of frost is past.

Rainbow...I'm starting everything from seed, not plants. By sunny area I mean indoors in the kitchen near windows. Do you think I should direct sow all my cool weather crops and start the remainder of the list indoors?

Interesting question and every one does things differently. I think at this point since you are getting a bit of a late start for cool weather crops (I plant seeds of a number of cool weather crops in January), I would plant the leafy stuff seeds directly in the ground now... kale, parsley, raddichio. The rest I'd still plant in pots just because you can give it more protection and nicer soil more even watering etc. But I would keep the pots outdoors, so the plants are already hardened off and used to outdoor conditions and don't have any more adjusting to do.

The warm weather crops start indoors now. They benefit greatly from some heat to germinate the seeds. I use regular heating pads under the trays, but you could put them on top of the refrigerator, put them over or under incandescent bulbs that give off heat or whatever. But now we are back to where this discussion started and your baby plants once sprouted will do much better with supplemental lighting not just a window. But we all learn from experience, you can try the window and see what happens and then you will know for next time.

Re dixana's comment on sterile seed starting medium. I know that's what they say and that baby seedlings don't need fertilizer initially, because they come with their own supply. But to start them in sterile seed starting medium and then move them to potting soil, for me would mean keeping two big bags of different soils around. I just use MG potting soil from the beginning and it works fine for me. I have started tons of seeds that way every year for decades now.

Thanks rainbow. That is a good idea to start the cool weather crops in pots outside now so they won't need hardening off. If you use regular heating pads how do you control the germination temp?

[rainbowgardener]

Not rocket science... I use regular heating pads (old fashioned, with no automatic timed cut off) set them on medium and forget them. I don't know how warm that makes my soil exactly, but it feels a little warm. Seeds like it, so I don't care. I'm not in that sense a very scientific gardener. I don't measure all this stuff, soil temps etc, I have never had my soil tested, I don't keep very much records. I just give the plants what they want and do what works and it all works out somehow.

I'm into keep it simple!

[garden5]

OK, I know this is unrelated to the question, but you may find this tip helpful down the road as your seedlings begin to grow.

OK, you will read the term "damping off" in this forum when we are talking about seedlings a lot. This is a fungus that attacks the seedlings at their base and causes them to look like they have been "pinched" off and killed.

It flourishes in damp conditions with no air flow. Some of the measures you can take to reduce this fungus is to allow the soil to dry out a little bit in between waterings, have the seedlings in an area where air curculates, have a fan blow on the seedlings periodically, sprinkle some cinnamon around the seedlings (natural anti-fungal), or water them with some chammomile tea (natural anti-fungal).

If you use the tea, you don't have to boil water or anything, just toss a chamomile tea bag into your regular container of water and let it sit for a while before you water your plants.

Now, if you do get a case of damping off, you can still save the seedling sometimes. This method works better for tomatoes seedlings than it does for peppers, but it worth a try with both.

when you see the base of the plant "pinched" or "kinked" and the seedling looks fallen over, cut if off just above the "pinched" point.

Next, re-bury the them up to the first set of leaves and give it a light watering. In many cases, the plant will root itself from the stem and live! I did with several tomato seedlings and a pepper last year and it worked!

I hope this helps. Happy gardening .