HelpfulGardener.com

I've been on here for advice in this section a couple times now. I had placed my seeds by the window and then made a box, both solutions I was warned did not have enough light. Frustrated that I could not seem to figure out what to do about it, I decided that since it's been very warm out, I would just put my plants outside so that they were sure to get sun. Most of the day the patio is shaded by the above apartment's patio and trees.
I bought one of those mini greenhouse things and planted some seeds and what was sprouting came out looking healthy and strong, but I went out to see them and half the tomatoes had just crumpled and died, as did the thyme and brussel sprouts. The dirt pots are moist. The tomatoes sprang up almost instantly, and I wasn't sure when to put them in their own bigger containers.
This whole business has gotten me really down. I'm starting to feel like I just have this anti-living plant aura surrounding me.
Is it too late to start re-seeding? It might be what I have to do at this point since everything else is withering.

Sorry, It does get frustrating when starting out. Without a new photo, it's hard to recommend.

If you start over compost the peat pots. Start your new batch of seedling in plastic pots. Make sure they have drain holes in the bottom.

Don't use an overly rich potting soil. My latest mix is Coconut Coir and Perlite that's it. I started out mixing 50 / 50 but now I'm at 75% Coir. Some mixes have wetting agents, I would avoid these.

We still need to work on the light issue. Shaded balcony sounds bad also.

Eric

Miracle grow ay? Run and leave no forwarding address.

Many here among use have had problems with this product. Dump this and the peat pots.

I don't agree not using peat mixes. I've been using them for about ten years with minor issues. I switch to coconut coir because it is a renewable product.

Eric

I'll take a pic in the morning when it's light out.

I'm trying to save the guys that are still alive, but most of them have dropped out of the running for the race to not wither. The ones in the little greenhouse box seemed to have withered for absolutely no reason. Maybe they got too much water? I didn't water them since planting since the box held in the water. :sigh:

Would it be okay to just start them in the troughs I bought for their final housing place? I haven't sat staring outside my window all day long ever, so my guess for direct sunlight would have to be through the morning hours and then 2-3 of the afternoon hours. We face south/southeast so there is a fair amount of unblocked sun (minus any tree interaction) in the morning. Where they are sitting now is mostly sun-blocked by the railings and slats of the fencing around the patio. If they were in the troughs, they would be hanging off the railing and able to get full sunlight while it faced our side of the building.
We survived as a race by planting and farming our own food for so long, and people in the 1800s didn't have manufactured pots and soil, but somehow we survived, so I'd imagine that somehow there is a way to do this right.

DoubleDogFarm wrote:Miracle grow ay? Run and leave no forwarding address.

Many here among use have had problems with this product. Dump this and the peat pots.

I don't agree not using peat mixes. I've been using them for about ten years with minor issues. I switch to coconut coir because it is a renewable product.

Eric

Lol that seems to be the general consensus on Miracle Gro, I see. I believe my grandmother uses it, though, and somehow she wizards herself a fine batch of tomato plants every year. Maybe it's just that grandma's touch. Perhaps when I tip into the senior citizen batch I'll be able to wizard myself perfect plants, too. I'll also get discounts on like, everything. Srsly, am I 65 yet?

"I don't agree not using peat mixes." I don't understand what you mean here. Silly double negatives.

Coconut coir - Renewable in what way?

We survived as a race by planting and farming our own food for so long, and people in the 1800s didn't have manufactured pots and soil, but somehow we survived, so I'd imagine that somehow there is a way to do this right.

Yes, put back the native plants that were removed constructing the buildings. Go back to hunting and foraging.

Ok, We could at least grow vegetables that match our local climates. We gardeners waste a lot of time and energy growing what we like to eat, not what grow best for our location.

Eric

DoubleDogFarm wrote:
Ok, We could at least grow vegetables that match our local climates. We gardeners waste a lot of time and energy growing what we like to eat, not what grow best for our location.

Eric

I can see this. I certainly didn't check if what I planted were good for my climate, just that I wanted them. :/
At this point, I wouldn't be averse to planting things I absolutely hated, and giving the bounty to friends, just to bring in some sort of success in the garden. (Though I'd imagine that the herbs will grow in most locales, and even indoors.) (Clearly, I am very stubborn. )

DoubleDogFarm wrote:
Yes, put back the native plants that were removed constructing the buildings. Go back to hunting and foraging.

Lol I'd be one of the first to wither away from lack of ability to be totally self-sufficient, or even partially self-sufficient. "But... Where'd my iPod go? What happened to Publix? :sad face:"

Starting seeds is not hard ONCE you have some basic knowledge of what they need and the ability to provide appropriate conditions. It is made more frustrating by the fact that the stores sell all this JUNK for seed starting that not only doesn't help, it actually kills plants. That includes peat pots, "moisture control" potting mix, and mini-greenhouses with covers.

What kills most baby plants is too much moisture. The peat pots hold the moisture and so do the humidity domes. Seeds do not need humidity domes to germinate (I start at least 500 plants from seed every year with no domes) but the seedlings once sprouted are easily killed by the too much humidity and no air circulation.

What seeds/seedlings need: lots of light, warmth, damp but not wet, good drainage, air circulation, nutrients once they are well sprouted.

It's not to late to try again, you have a very long growing season there. Some things can be just direct seeded in the ground. But the reason why we start things indoors or in little pots is to be able to control the environment a little more, give them some extra protection. It's hard to get your ground as soft and loose as the potting soil and it's harder to keep your seeds from drying out/ washing away in a big rain, etc.

But yes, go ahead and plant them where they are going to grow.

You mentioned the planters that hang off the deck railing. I have seen those and they are very nice for flowers. I have never seen one close to big enough to grow a tomato plant in. You know one tomato plant needs at least a 5 gallon bucket worth of soil. And it is going to turn into a vine that is more than 6 feet tall and maybe 3 feet wide depending on how it is managed. And it will need to be staked/ caged / supported. So if you are growing tomatoes in containers you need a BIG container and somewhere to put the big container where it gets at least 6 - 8 hrs of sun a day.

"I don't agree not using peat mixes." I don't understand what you mean here. Silly double negatives.

I don't agree, use peat mixes. Actually I'm pushing coconut coir now. Renewable, A natural resource that can replenish itself over time.

Eric

Peat pots are harder to work with than plastic. Peat pots tend to be either too wet or too dry and subject to mold.
Large pots are easier to work with than small and plastic domes should not be used in direct sun.

Some crazy double posting

Yeah, that's usually spammers setting up a place to activate a new sig with a link.

We always keep an eye on this sort of thing...

S

rainbowgardener wrote:Starting seeds is not hard ONCE you have some basic knowledge of what they need and the ability to provide appropriate conditions. It is made more frustrating by the fact that the stores sell all this JUNK for seed starting that not only doesn't help, it actually kills plants. That includes peat pots, "moisture control" potting mix, and mini-greenhouses with covers.

...

You mentioned the planters that hang off the deck railing. I have seen those and they are very nice for flowers. I have never seen one close to big enough to grow a tomato plant in. You know one tomato plant needs at least a 5 gallon bucket worth of soil. And it is going to turn into a vine that is more than 6 feet tall and maybe 3 feet wide depending on how it is managed. And it will need to be staked/ caged / supported. So if you are growing tomatoes in containers you need a BIG container and somewhere to put the big container where it gets at least 6 - 8 hrs of sun a day.

Yeah, the stores hook newbs like me with pretty colors and things like "easy-grow" and other non-sense that I'm learning first-hand only hinder instead of help. I'm going to ditch the Miracle Gro brand all together because they make me sad.

I should have been clearer, as I see now I really only mentioned the tomatoes, which look pretty rockin (at least comparatively lol), btw. The tomatoes are probably going to grow in the ground, or in one of those hangy-upside down tomato planter thingies. (Unless the garden vets tell me those are poo-poo, too, in which I will then stick em in the ground.) The troughs are for the catnip, cilantro, and thyme. As for green onions, should those go in ground or can they go in a container like the troughs? They seem to be at least ALIVE, so I'd like to go ahead and plant em where they're going to go.

As for my soil, it seems to be mostly clay (whoopee Georgia ), and a professor here at UGA said I should mix compost in with the clay and it will be plantable. Anyone else second this, or have other suggestions? I'd hate for the ones that survived thus far to be wiped out by insufficient ground soil.

I was also putting the dome in the direct sun, I'm guessing this is what offed em.

Also, what exactly is this coconut coir? Is it also a peat mixture, then? Can I get it at Home Depot, Lowes, or Wal-Mart? There really aren't any specialty garden stores around Athens aka Middle Of NoWheresVille Georgia that I know of.

(Was I the double poster you were talking about? )

Alright, I've taken a few pictures of the ones that seem to be at least alive. I had taken some of the mini-greenhouse, but I think the consensus is death due to negligence and ignorance. Lesson learned for next time around.

One of the tomato plants. He looks pretty kickin'. He's growing true leaves now, so should he get into the ground like, now?
[img]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/UntilStrawberrySherbet/photo.jpg[/img]

Cilantro. Does he look like he's not going to make it? He is starting to get some leaves poppin' out from the stem, so I thought I'd hold on just a little longer.
[img]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/UntilStrawberrySherbet/photo6.jpg[/img]

Banana pepper.
[img]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/UntilStrawberrySherbet/photo1.jpg[/img]

Green onions. My big question: When do these guys get transplanted? They're looking pretty long now and probably want to be in something bigger, but I don't really know since I've never actually done this before.
[img]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/UntilStrawberrySherbet/photo2.jpg[/img]

The Brussels Sprouts have pretty much entered a state of stasis. I've seen no real growth, just sadness and occasional droopiness from apparent lack of consistent moisture.
[img]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/UntilStrawberrySherbet/photo3.jpg[/img]
^Note the adorable Hello Kitty kids cup in the background. Hurrah Target! (It came with a matching plate.)

Here's our most recent thread on the topsy-turvy tomato planters:

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33025

It is 11 people saying it didn't work for them and one person saying they had success with it.

If you type topsy-turvy tomatoes or upside down tomatoes into the Search the Forum keyword box you will find more written here about them.

Guess it's into the ground for the little guys. I just checked on them and their leaves are browning. This is due to over-watering, correct? Unfortunately, I didn't notice until I gave em a little more water for the night. Hopefully they'll pull through if I just leave them be for a while. It's difficult to maintain the right amount of water in these things, though. People keep saying that these peat pots are bad news, and I can see why.

Holy junk, guys. I have successful plants! Even my Brussels sprouts have sprouted some true leaves! Today is a glorious day, indeed! Now I have to figure out how to get them from container to final resting place. HOORAY!!!

You do have to figure out how to transplant them, but not just yet. You can just let them grow for a bit! Just because they have their first true leaves doesn't make them transplant ready. In the pix, your plants were tiny seedlings. You want to have nice little plants for transplanting... they resist the vicissitudes of outdoors a lot better when not so teeny and fragile.

New picture please

I agree with Rainbow. You should have a plant looking something like this.
[img]https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/eric_wa/Farmers%20Market/DSC02130.jpg[/img]

Without the Muscovy chewed leaves.

Eric

Okay! I'll let 'em chill for a while. The tomatoes look pretty killer, their leaves are getting pretty big. I guess I'm just concerned that they'll die before they're ready.
Most of the plants have already kicked the bucket, so this weekend I'll have to see about starting them again, probably in their troughs for the herbs.