Propagation Sweat Chamber

[DoubleDogFarm]

This is my rendition of a propagation chamber. It has no artificial light, just day light. If you Google Sweat Chamber it based on it.

Basically a wood box with windows on two sides. The shelves will be simply 3 parallel Rebar. In the bottom of the chamber will be a heater, controlled by a thermostat and a tray of water above. The high humidity is why it's called a sweat chamber. After germination the flats are removed to better lighting.






Tomorrow I will finish the shelving and install the heating system.

Eric

[soil]

nice one doubledog! ive used clear rubbermaids but that ones sweet.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Soil,

Do you have any suggestions? How did the clear Rubbermaid work?

On my setup. Should I install the thermostat at the top or middle? You would think the top would be the hottest.

What about the heater fan. Should I install it off to the side so it pushes the heat right up to the top? Keep the heater centered so it reflects around the water pan and radiates up through everything or open center so the heat pushes up to the top?



Eric

[soil]

when i had the rubbermaids( which i might do again) i just set two flats in them and put them in my GH. it was sort of like a mini GH in its own. it worked for what it was for but not as good as what it looks like you got.

as for your method though. what kind of heater are you going to use? are you simply just trying to heat the air inside? if so i would go with the middle version with an added option if i may suggest. if you get a tube(preferably metal) that is decent sized(4-6 inches) i think 6 or 8 would be best though. anyways you place this right above your heater and the tube goes straight up almost to the top. what happens is the heat goes up in the tube, which creates a draft and sucks the air from the bottom( which is cooler) into the tube, as it rises it heats up. this creates a flow cycle almost like how you have the arrows drawn in the middle heater version. in turn creating a almost perfectly uniform heated space. simply hook up a temp guage and some switch of some kind to turn off when a certain temp is met and on whenever it gets too low and it will stay at whatever you want. i had a friend who used this method to heat his house on the cheap, but the concept would work perfectly in your "Sweat box"

[Bobberman]

Very nice. That is what I need a box to start seeds in my cold solar greenhouse! How about if I build a box around a bread tray metal rack! My friend has a bread store and I have 30 of the plastic trays that fit into the racks! The plastic bread trays are strong and would hold two seed trays each! How does the humidity effect the thermonstat?

[DoubleDogFarm]

Frank,

I think your bread trays should work. The thermostat I have is weather tight type. It can be wired for either cooling or heating. I have one of these. http://www.kkontrols.com/poth8ftco.html

Soil,

A 4" to 8" flue would hog a lot of space, I'm wonder if this pipe could run up the outside of the box? I've seen something similar on a converted refrigerate sweat box. He was using a computer fan to circulate.

I need to study it a little more, but I think the heater is also heating the water. Steam seems wrong.

Eric

[Bobberman]

If the chamber was sealed some the moisture in the soil would be adquate I think. I was even thinking that a light blb or heat lamp would give enough heat and you could see how ften it came on from a distance mostly at night. I need one of these bad because my pep and tom take too long to come up and I loose some seeds from decay!!

[DoubleDogFarm]

Frank,

The heat lamp may work, but I'm thinking a little fan is needed for circulation. I'm try to avoid hot spots.

The soil moisture maybe adequate, but I'm not sure. I'll probably try a shallow pan of water just to be safe.

A friend of mine gave me a heat element w/ fan out of a food dehydrator, I may give it a try.

Time to go finish the rebar shelves.

Eric

[DoubleDogFarm]

Update picture with the rebar shelves in place.



Soil,
Looks like I have room for a 6" pipe after all. I will give it a try.


Eric

[Bobberman]

Very nice set up! After they sprout you move them within 2 days or so right?

[soil]

its doesn't even need to be 6 inch, the point is to channel the heat and create a draw. this moves the air around constantly giving even heat. if you can channel the heat up a 2 inch pipe i bet it would work,

lookin good btw!

[DoubleDogFarm]

Frank,

Moving the flats out will depend on germination. Peppers will probably take the longest then tomatoes and so on.... Not long after germination.

Soil,

Ok. For this evening, I just put a waterbed heater and a pie plate full of water in the bottom. Should be able to finish this project tomorrow.


Eric

[DoubleDogFarm]

Living up to its name.



Eric

[soil]

damn now i want one

[DoubleDogFarm]

Soil,

Two recycled windows, 3/8 rebar, plywood and a few screws.

Build a larger chamber with two shower doors.


Eric

[alaskagold]

ddf, looks like you went to HFH.

[soil]

Soil,

Two recycled windows, 3/8 rebar, plywood and a few screws.

Build a larger chamber with two shower doors

i know, i already have the stuff laying around too.

[Bobberman]

This idea of Dogs or who ever came up with it is to me the way to go! Its like a greenhouse inside a greenhouse. The main thing I ee that is super is the fact that you can creat a 75 degree temp without heating the whole green house! Once the seeds sprout you have 1/2 the battle won! I have grown seedlings with their first leaves in low temp oce they sprout!
+++
Remember you must be careful around water and electric. I think the first thing must be a thermastat that hools directly to the 110 outlet and Dog has a link to that on his post on sweat house!.
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The heater s what concerns me. Will the light bulb work or the heat lamp? A heat mat at the bottom will it give off enough heat? Remember you can insulate this chamber even where the light comes n it can be double glass but its already in the greenhouse so it will be in some heat already! A 100 watt bulb should do the trick and will not cost much like a 1000 watt heater! How about a candle? The bulb creats no gas and is safer! They make a heat tape to stop pipe from freezing. How about a old coffee maker of tea pot that heats water which would also creat the steam or water vapor to increase the humidity for germation! I doubt if i ill damp off with the extra heat!
+++
I have a double pane window 3 by 5 that would work. I also have 3/8 inch plexiglas 3- 3 by 5 sheets that would probably make a nice one. Plexiglas is expensive I know these sheets are probably $200 each if you buy them! they were displayes in a store.

[DoubleDogFarm]

alaskagold,

Habitat for Humanity ?? I'm confused.

Eric

[DoubleDogFarm]

Frank,

One problem I see with the heat lamp or bulb idea is water. Hot glass and water don't mix well, you could have a nice POP! in the night and your starts will get the chills.


Eric

[DoubleDogFarm]

What do you Helpful members think. Some of the tomatoes have sprouted and are reaching for the light. Should I remove the individual 4" pots and label or wait until most have sprouted and remove the whole flat. Each flat is one variety. There are eleven varieties in this chamber. The twelfth flat is Goumi cuttings.

Eric

[wordwiz]

Eric,

You need to get those babies under good lights like yesterday! The rest of the seeds will germinate, at least the ones that will if you keep them in the heat.

Mike

[alaskagold]

alaskagold,

Habitat for Humanity ?? I'm confused.

Eric

yes

[DoubleDogFarm]

Thanks Mike,

I'll start pulling and labeling.

alaskagold.

Eric

[Bobberman]

Ya when they get long and thin they don't last long. Light is what they need ! My friend just grew some herbs on the window but it does not get enough light and the plants are thin and falling over already! i told him to thin the 20 plants in a 4 inch area and just pull out the long thin ones and keep the new short ones and place it in more intense light!

[soil]

so i built one of these today as the weather has been crap and i need to get things warm for the seeds. mine is no where near as nice as dogs lol. made from scrap wood, some 6 mil plastic laying around, and bamboo. for heat i used one of these outdoor tube lights.

http://outdoor-lightszone.com/2010/12/2 ... -lights-3/

they create a low radiant warmth. they are weatherproof and very low power as they are LED. they also give off some light so that's a slight bonus i guess.

i weaved this around the bottom of the sweat box. and put the trays stacked like doubledog's trays.

what kind of thermostat do you have set up?

[DoubleDogFarm]

Soil,

Sounds good. Will you placing a pan of water on top of the rope lighting?

I'm using this thermostat. http://www.kkontrols.com/poth8ftco.html Now I wish I bought the one with the soil prob.

The seeds germinate so much quicker, I've been having a little trouble keep up. Some became a little leggy. I may add florescent lights in the future.

Eric

[soil]

no pan of water, the humidity in there already is through the roof, it looks tropical in there.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Soil,

It may look tropical today, but how about tomorrow? I was noticing in my chamber that the top shelves were drying out. I don't have the circulation worked out, so it's hotter at the top.

Eric

[soil]

well i will see tomorrow, and simply adjust accordingly.

[Bobberman]

Even in the heat chamber you can use plastic to cover the soil till they sprout and not have to worry about water vapor I think! Right?

[DoubleDogFarm]

Frank,

Yes, The plastic covers would probably work, but that's what the whole chamber is about. I'm trying to keep the atmosphere high humidity.

Slowly working things out.

Eric

[Bobberman]

I thought the chamber was mostly for the heat. I don't see any benifit with humidity when the plastic would solve that. The humdity may also cause too much wetness by dropping water everywhere!

[DoubleDogFarm]

The moist heat is to help eliminate dry spots. It's based on one of this commercial units.

http://www.usgr.com/propagation/seed-germination.php

Eric

[soil]

still warm and sweaty, just perfect. it might help that mine is not perfectly sealed. and neither is my greenhnouse and its been raining for the past week. well see once it gets sunny. i bet i wont even need the lights for heat.

thanks for the idea DD. if i knew about this a few months ago i could have been way ahead of my game.

do you think it would work equally as good with cuttings for propagation too.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I'm testing the cuttings idea already. I have 18 cuttings of Goumi in the chamber. They are starting to leaf out.

Eric

[Bobberman]

Being that this atmosphere that we are creating here is is very tropical should we make sure that there is some peat moss at the surface of the soil mix to eliminate damping off?

[DoubleDogFarm]

Frank,

I haven't had any damping off problems. My 4" pots are filled with 50/50 peat perlite or coir perlite.


Eric

[soil]

damping off is for weak plants and poor soil.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Soil,

You probably have mentioned your growing medium many times, but tell me one more time.

Eric