Seedlings rate of survival!

[Avonnow]

I was wondering when any of you plant a bunch of seeds, out of a tray what do you expect to survive? I mean percentage.

I did a couple of different things to see what worked the best, worst.

The worst were those things that you add water to and they expand - got them at home depot (they were cheap) they sucked. I couldn't get but two or three marigolds to get anywhere, so many died, to hot, too wet, to dry. You name it I couldn't make them happy. The dome I got was much better, but I still have quite a bit that never even germinated. After transplanting them, some seem to just peter out.

Am I expecting too much? I have to say the ones I planted in old sour cream cups, milk jugs, plastic cups did just as well, if not better. I had them all on heat mats, but I was very disappointed in the results. I saw the other post about planting up - and I have to agree the ones I put into the ground shortly after are much better then the ones I moved to 4 inch cups. Some see to be floundering or worse one by one they are croaking.

I am worried the bulk will not make it. I was hoping by starting them Jan 1st I would have them producing by April, but that to me seems way off. Am I worring too much? Do they have enough time? Should I plant some more as back up? I am talking tomtoes and peppers mostly. Sorry I jabbered so much!

[GardenRN]

Sounds like maybe your seeds just weren't very good. Or maybe over atering or something? Maybe someone else can chime in. I'd say I have about 97% success as far as germination goes. And any shortcomings after the plants have sprouted have been my own fault. ie: starting too soon, plants getting root bound, not up potting etc.

What brand of seeds are you using? and for the tomatoes especially, are you letting them dry out pretty good in between watering?

Too much water= common rookie mistake

[Avonnow]

I watered from the bottom in my dome, the tomatos actually did alittle better then the peppers, but the seeds were variety, I will look at the place I got them - as I did make a list. Maybe that is it, some rows only had one or two germinate - each row was the same brand or source. The other planter was flowers - I think it was the type of medium and the planter - I found it useless, couldn't get a thing going long enough without damping off, or drying out. That was hard to maintain. This was the pellets from home depot. Terrbile, glad they were cheap as I will probably toss them.
Well maybe I will try again with othre seeds.

[rainbowgardener]

Yeah, I think the peat stuff is real plant killers; I keep warning people to avoid it.

Are you talking about germination rate or survival rate once germinated? Germination rate is very variable, depends on what plant, how old the seed, how it was stored, soil temp and moisture, etc. I'm about to plant more of my home grown marigold seeds, only one sprouted. I never did get my seeds refrigerated last fall, so they sat around all winter, drying out.

But survival once sprouted is something else. I've been doing this for years now and with experience, I've gotten to where I lose very few plants once sprouted and especially once they have the first pair of true leaves, almost none once they make it as far as having a pair of true leaves. Except that I sometimes am not patient enough in the hardening off process and lose some plants that way... I'm always rushing the season that way and pushing the plants too fast. I always get excited once we get that first warm up and can never remember that it is still going to get really cold again...

Let us know what happened, how your plants died, what did they look like, etc. Commonest thing is too much moisture and the peat definitely tends to hold too much moisture in.

[digitS']

. . . I've been doing this for years now and with experience, I've gotten to where I lose very few plants once sprouted and especially once they have the first pair of true leaves, almost none once they make it as far as having a pair of true leaves. . . .

It takes some experience, Avonnow. Sometimes the seed hasn't much viability but once the plants begin to emerge, you are dealing with the most vulnerable stage of their lives. They are tender babies.

I probably just happened on to success and now I am afraid to do much of anything to change what probably isn't even the best choices in seed starting. Almost everything from size of container to moisture to depth of sowing to temperature to light, etc. make a difference in the first few days of life.

Cookie boxes have worked best for me - the kind you carry home with a dozen oatmeal & raisin cookies from the supermarket. I punch holes in the bottom (after emptying ), fill them with the starting mix, and allow them to soak in a basin of water for a couple of hours. After draining, seed is sprinkled on top and soil is sprinkled on the seed to the necessary depth.

The containers are then stacked on top my fridge where it is a fairly consistent, 70°F. Once the plants begin to emerge - and, I have to watch them carefully - the lid is taken off and they are moved to a sunny, south window in a cool room. There cannot be much delay or they will stretch, since there isn't adequate light for them on the kitchen fridge.

When they need water, I will half-fill the lid (now serving as a tray under the container) with tepid water and set them in it for an hour, dumping out the excess water later. If the sky is cloudy for several days, I may need to set up a light. Overnight, I will move the cookie boxes of seedlings away from the cold glass of the window to a table a few feet into the room.

All this is taking place before the tiny plants go out to a heated greenhouse. They are coddled during their 1st days altho' it isn't quite like one would treat a new-born or baby chicks and may even vary from one species of plant to another. See, experience comes to play here and about all you can do is read and observe others when you are first starting out. You will find success, too.

Steve

[Avonnow]

I wish I could picture your cookie boxes, are these the plastic conatiners from the store? I did remove the dome lid when they got germinated, but I think I may need more light. You mention that stretching thing and I think that is what happened. I am going to try more, My husband is going to kick me in the you know what - because it looks like I have plenty, yet they seem to be floundering. I don't want to wait too long, it gets hot her (real hot) by the end of April.

Any recommendaiton on starting soil? I know to water from bottom. I think some of my seed choices are good and the seeds are new. I will try them again, I think it is me and the heat, light, fertilizer ratio. I read various articles and some said to lightly fertilize, and to water alot, but I think those things are what hurt me. What do you think, does your soil contain something that helps them in the first few weeks and when do you recommend any further fertilizer? I have re-planted some in the ground. They are doing well. They were the strongest and healthiest of the bunch and they were the tomatos, the peppers have about 4 true leaves but seem to short for me to plant out - they have been outside about 2 weeks. I am in Florida so most days have been aroun 70 or above. Really nice actually. Could I plant then in the ground, would that help them take off. I appreciate your advice.

As far as the Marigolds I will buy them, I just wanted to see if I could do it, and they were a bust. Thanks

[applestar]

Avonnow, it's a trade-off because when they're planted in the ground too small, they're that much more vulnerable to bugs and other pests.

If the container is not too small, and drainage seems good, I would probably just find good places to put them in their containers outside to harden off and gradually get used to the great outdoors -- the sun, wind, rain -- for the next week or so. Of course, when you do this, you'll need to be extra careful not to let them get dried out. If cold ground temp is not an issue, I put mine directly on the ground in the grass -- and earthworms move in.

[digitS']

I wish I could picture your cookie boxes, are these the plastic conatiners from the store? . . .

Okay, Sherry.
[img]https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/Digit_007/SpringOh8001.jpg[/img]
This is what it will look like on my fridge soon.

I use Black Gold organic potting soil for everything . . . unless I am doing big pots of perennials and then I mix my own from top soil, peat moss, etc.

Potting soil can't be the best choice for starting seed, if for no other reason than its coarseness. Still, it has worked for me. I once tried a different brand and nearly ruined my entire season . So, timidly, I stay with what has worked for many years.

Since this is a potting soil, it has several weeks worth of fertilizer. In time, available fertilizer will be depleted. It seems to me that I've got a month's worth, at least. I usually only apply fertilizer once or twice before the plants are set out. Fish emulsion is a good choice for me and it usually takes a couple of applications to see a benefit.

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

I just use potting soil. It may not be ideal, but it works for me and it is easy to find in bulk, since I use a lot of it. It has fertilizer built in. Your seedlings don't actually need any fertilizer until they have a couple pair of true leaves and then only if your soil mix doesn't have fertilizer and only gently.

If you were having "stretching" or what we call leggy seedlings, that is spindly and tall with a lot of stem space between leaves, that is not enough light. They need lots of light, very close, like just a couple inches above the plants, and on for 16 hrs a day.

[Susan W]

I don't do much seed starting, but the few successes I have had...
I use the peat pellets, the larger ones (about1") not the little ones. I have started marigolds, sunflowers and cotton. Reason for sunflowers is if I direct sow, the birds think it is food! The marigolds were the cheapest on the market as I was looking for particular varieties appropriate to the herb bed at the 18th c French garden at Ft Toulouse, AL. There they were labeled with genus-species in the $1 box at Walgreens!

Moisture control is testy with the pellets, as with any small container. I check them several times/day and use a spray when needed, sometimes water, some times need to let dry a bit. Biggest problem I have this year is the OK Kitty who thinks they are just there for her fun and games!

My current batch is about 20 basil, purple and green in a pellet tray, about 12" square. I had it on top of the frig with lid slightly ajar. Kept giving it more air, then removed top complete when sprouted, just a few short days. Now on a table by a window, and surrounded by the 8 -10" basil pots, and has supplementary light and heat. When I leave the house and now at night move the tray out of Kitty's easy access.

Now just waiting impatiently for true leaves....

Hope this helps.

[garden5]

When I did mine last year, all I used was some of the compost-dirt from my pile.I grew them in 72 cell flats (think of 12 6-packs like what you get flowers in) I had about an 80% germination rate with tomatoes...less with peppers. This was due to not having enough bottom heat.

However, once the seedlings were up, I lost only 1.

With the tomato seedlings, I found that if they are leggy and you do not plan on up-potting them, YOU can also re-bury them deeper in their own cells. You can also do this if some die from damping-off: just re-plant them up to their leaves. The stems will sprout roots and they may continue growing. I've never tried this with peppers, though.

Keep at it and you will an expert before you know it!

[digitS']

. . .
DigitS, you buy cookies?

You know what, Marlingardener - I do. My waistline at this time of year can confirm that . . .

But, I have also bought those boxes! The bakeries will throw the boxes away when their products pass the pull date but they haven't been willing to give them to me . I think they are afraid that temptation will overcome me, I will eat some of the crumbs, get sick and sue them !

S'