Hi all,
With the snow on the ground and the mercury through the floor, it is finally time for me to start thinking even more seriously about next year! Last year I started my veggies seedling myself for the first time with good success given what I knew going in. However, I am hoping to get your thoughts and advice on up potting for next year. I have a couple specific questions:
1. After the initial up potting, how do I know whether and when to up pot again?
2. How many times should I reasonably expect to up pot presuming that I start on time and plant on time relative to last frost and why?
I get that starting in small containers is economical in cost and space and can make even watering easier than putting seeds in larger containers to start, but I am still a little uncertain about up potting after the initial round into a larger container that the staring container. I would appreciate advice from those with more experience than me, which is not too hard unless you are as much a noob as I was last year at this time!
Below are some (ha!) details and observations on what I did last to give you a sense of where I am coming from. My set up is as follows:
- seed starting mix: equal parts coconut coir, screened homemade compost from the yard and kitchen, vermiculite
- seeds: peppers (5 varieties) tomatoes (4 varieties), kale (2 varieties), collards, swiss chard, cauliflower, beets, spinach
-initial containers: toilet paper rolls with cuts up one end and tabs folded over to make a flat, closed base
- seed starting: start dates based on variety and transplant date, three seeds per tube with plans to thin to one per tube, multiple tubes per variety to increase chances of success (except for leeks, which were scatter planted in a baby formula tubs). Tubes stored in flat trays on a heat mat at 70° F or so covered with plastic domes until germination, then moved under the lights. Watering was from the bottom about every other day by filling the trays to about 1/4 inch and letting the water wick up.
- lighting: 4 foot, 8 tube fixture with a timer set for 16 hours on/8 hours off.
I had complete germination of all seeds (!) except for some of the beets and all of the spinach. After the seedlings emerged and got established, I put an oscillating fan on them while the lights were on, began to water (from the bottom) with dilute fish emulsion once a week, and sprayed the plants and surface of the grow medium with dilute chamomile tea to try to prevent damping off, which did not rear its ugly head. Once all three seedlings in each tube had one pair of true leaves, I clipped two the three seedling to grow out one plant.
I up potted into 16 oz. Solo cups with holes drilled in the bottom when the one plant in each tube had two pairs of true leaves or, in some cases, when I noticed roots starting to come out through the side or bottom of the tube. Given that I had multiple plants of each variety, I experimented by up potting some with the very softened tube left on (and buried beneath the medium) and others with the tube peeled off; I saw no difference in growth in containers or after transplanting relative to the presence or absence of the tube, so next year I will leave them on to save some time and effort.
Given our schedules and our wonky weather in Spring, 2013 (snow after snow after snow into May), we did not do a very good job hardening off in terms of consistency or duration each time outside, and transplanted a week to a couple weeks depending on variety. Everything survived just fine and production was good generally but not great for tomatoes and some of the peppers, but one tomato and a couple peppers did seem a little shocked.
A couple observations:
1. The stimulation from the fan seems to have caused the tomatoes in particular to grow impressively stout stems for their height compared to any seedlings I have ever bought.
2. A couple of the tomatoes and peppers had flowers by the time we transplanted, which I think is a sign of stress and not good…Could this have been delayed or prevented by up potting to larger containers than the 16 oz. cups (I.e., the store of 32 oz. yogurt tubs I have saved up for this purpose)?
3. My wife actually dealt with the transplanting, and neither of us can remember for sure, but I have a vague recollection of her telling me that she could see the roots in some of the root balls and/or some of the plants had roots growing out of the holes in the bottom by the time we managed to transplant. I presume that would be a good indication of the need to up put again!
So, if you have made it this far, I will reiterate my questions:
1. After the initial up potting, how do I know whether and when to up pot again?
2. How many times should I reasonably expect to up pot presuming that I start on time and plant on time relative to last frost and why?
I would really appreciate any thoughts, comments, or advice you might have.
Thanks!
David
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ReptileAddiction
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 866
- Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:52 am
- Location: Southern California
Knowing when to up pot is different for different crops. If you see roots circling definitely re-pot. Once the plant looks like it is to big then up pot it.
The number of times that you up pot is dependent on how big of plants you want. If you want 2 foot tomato plants to set out then you will need to up pot a lot more than if you want 6 inch starts. If you are planting a lot of crops a good way to do it is to start them all in flats and then once they have their first true leaves, pricking each one out of the container and into it's own 4 inch pot. You can also put them in 6 packs, which is what I prefer for most crops. You are right that flowering is a sign of stress and it probably means that they got to big before being up potted.
The number of times that you up pot is dependent on how big of plants you want. If you want 2 foot tomato plants to set out then you will need to up pot a lot more than if you want 6 inch starts. If you are planting a lot of crops a good way to do it is to start them all in flats and then once they have their first true leaves, pricking each one out of the container and into it's own 4 inch pot. You can also put them in 6 packs, which is what I prefer for most crops. You are right that flowering is a sign of stress and it probably means that they got to big before being up potted.
David, I have a feeling like I missed that day in crafting class to not know quite what you are doing with "folded" toilet paper rolls to make them square . . ? That's okay. You obviously enjoy "re-purposing" containers.
I do too. The re-purposed container I start with are those that you get from the bakery or deli department at the soopermarket. Clear plastic - maybe they are called "clam-shell" but the cookies and deli sandwiches come in them. Too many sizes, some are too shallow or too deep or, simply, too large but there are several sizes that work well for me for "community" starting of seedlings.
Timing. Everything that I start begins in those containers with the exception of the Cucurbits. Cukes, melons, squash - begin life in 2" to 3" pots. They hang around in those for about 3 weeks and then go into the garden.
Most seedlings are in those cookie boxes until they have their 2nd set of leaves. The lid is cut off as soon as a good number of them have emerged from the starting mix. I use the handle of a plastic spoon to prick them out and off they go into 4-packs, usually. They will stay in those 4-packs until transplanting out in the garden. Exceptions are the tomatoes and eggplants. I will sometime move the peppers but they tend to be slow growing in my set-up.
Seedlings start their life in a warm location in my kitchen. I have to watch them closely because there is not sufficient light in there for them to grow properly even for a day or 2. Once they are up, they show up here on a table in the south window. They are on their way to a heated greenhouse. I sometimes put a light over them either in the south window or the greenhouse but most years, do not.
The lid of the cookie box is not left on top but put under the container. It works well as a tray & I can use it for bottom watering. While still in those cookie boxes, they are moved to the greenhouse.
Timing. Once they are in the 4 (or 6-packs), they can stay there until they are becoming root-bound. I don't want any of them root-bound but with those, it isn't difficult to push one of the more vigorous plants up from the bottom with one of your digitS'
to see if the roots are circling. Time to move those tomatoes & eggplants to 3½" or 4" pots. I like the square ones so that they fit better in trays.
If the tomatoes are 8 weeks old when they are set out into the garden, they seem to have enough room in that size of pots. Ten weeks is fine. Their growth has more to do with their growing conditions than the size of the containers. Cool temperatures will slow their growth and sometimes, that is desired. Slow them down - especially if there isn't adequate sunlight. Too cool of conditions don't really happen in my heated greenhouse if I am sure that I've got my glasses on when I set the thermostat . I used to start plants in my laundry room and things would get kind of cool in there, especially if we weren't getting very much sunshine. Timing would get a little "off" as the plants slowed. Of course, things can go in the other direction with too much warmth, especially.
Flowering is strongly influenced by light, duration of light, and maturity of the plant. Yes, stress can prompt flowering. I take those flowers off when they show up until I can get the plants into the open garden. The last pinching of flowers happens when I set those plants out because I don't want in fruit-setting before they make some real good growth out there.
Hardening-off is tough. I have the good fortune to be able to be around a lot during the spring. I can move the plants out and put them back in the greenhouse promptly, depending on the weather conditions. I spend a lot of time myself here in the south window. The very best "spot" in my yard for hardening-off is directly below this window. A deciduous tree grows not all that far to the south of this window and begins to provide a little shade even before it leaves out. The plants are also protected down there by the steps off the deck.
As they can take a little more sun and more wind, they are moved further out into the yard. Some days they aren't out at all. Some days, they are only out for a few hours. I am dancing plants around the backyard constantly for several weeks each spring. If I wasn't home so much, I think I'd build a large cold frame. Not really for overnight but so that it could be open in varying amounts depending on what I expect for the day. Honestly, I think I'd be much worse at this whole job if I was still working and not "retired."
The best care, adequate care, something a little short of adequate care, poor care -- all of that will make for different plant growth. It sounds like you did well last year. Keep notes! My notes are about 20 years old. I tried to get the best ideas onto a timeline. I still refer back to that. Your guide is based on your local conditions through the spring. Things change but a calendar of your own making helps you stay on your toes and adjust. Here's wishing you the Best of Luck.
Steve
I do too. The re-purposed container I start with are those that you get from the bakery or deli department at the soopermarket. Clear plastic - maybe they are called "clam-shell" but the cookies and deli sandwiches come in them. Too many sizes, some are too shallow or too deep or, simply, too large but there are several sizes that work well for me for "community" starting of seedlings.
Timing. Everything that I start begins in those containers with the exception of the Cucurbits. Cukes, melons, squash - begin life in 2" to 3" pots. They hang around in those for about 3 weeks and then go into the garden.
Most seedlings are in those cookie boxes until they have their 2nd set of leaves. The lid is cut off as soon as a good number of them have emerged from the starting mix. I use the handle of a plastic spoon to prick them out and off they go into 4-packs, usually. They will stay in those 4-packs until transplanting out in the garden. Exceptions are the tomatoes and eggplants. I will sometime move the peppers but they tend to be slow growing in my set-up.
Seedlings start their life in a warm location in my kitchen. I have to watch them closely because there is not sufficient light in there for them to grow properly even for a day or 2. Once they are up, they show up here on a table in the south window. They are on their way to a heated greenhouse. I sometimes put a light over them either in the south window or the greenhouse but most years, do not.
The lid of the cookie box is not left on top but put under the container. It works well as a tray & I can use it for bottom watering. While still in those cookie boxes, they are moved to the greenhouse.
Timing. Once they are in the 4 (or 6-packs), they can stay there until they are becoming root-bound. I don't want any of them root-bound but with those, it isn't difficult to push one of the more vigorous plants up from the bottom with one of your digitS'
to see if the roots are circling. Time to move those tomatoes & eggplants to 3½" or 4" pots. I like the square ones so that they fit better in trays.If the tomatoes are 8 weeks old when they are set out into the garden, they seem to have enough room in that size of pots. Ten weeks is fine. Their growth has more to do with their growing conditions than the size of the containers. Cool temperatures will slow their growth and sometimes, that is desired. Slow them down - especially if there isn't adequate sunlight. Too cool of conditions don't really happen in my heated greenhouse if I am sure that I've got my glasses on when I set the thermostat
. I used to start plants in my laundry room and things would get kind of cool in there, especially if we weren't getting very much sunshine. Timing would get a little "off" as the plants slowed. Of course, things can go in the other direction with too much warmth, especially.Flowering is strongly influenced by light, duration of light, and maturity of the plant. Yes, stress can prompt flowering. I take those flowers off when they show up until I can get the plants into the open garden. The last pinching of flowers happens when I set those plants out because I don't want in fruit-setting before they make some real good growth out there.
Hardening-off is tough. I have the good fortune to be able to be around a lot during the spring. I can move the plants out and put them back in the greenhouse promptly, depending on the weather conditions. I spend a lot of time myself
here in the south window. The very best "spot" in my yard for hardening-off is directly below this window. A deciduous tree grows not all that far to the south of this window and begins to provide a little shade even before it leaves out. The plants are also protected down there by the steps off the deck. As they can take a little more sun and more wind, they are moved further out into the yard. Some days they aren't out at all. Some days, they are only out for a few hours. I am dancing plants around the backyard constantly for several weeks each spring. If I wasn't home so much, I think I'd build a large cold frame. Not really for overnight but so that it could be open in varying amounts depending on what I expect for the day. Honestly, I think I'd be much worse at this whole job if I was still working and not "retired."
The best care, adequate care, something a little short of adequate care, poor care -- all of that will make for different plant growth. It sounds like you did well last year. Keep notes! My notes are about 20 years old. I tried to get the best ideas onto a timeline. I still refer back to that. Your guide is based on your local conditions through the spring. Things change but a calendar of your own making helps you stay on your toes and adjust. Here's wishing you the Best of Luck.
Steve
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
For your first time, you did GREAT! Avoided all the beginner mistakes and had really good success.
I have never started spinach indoors anyway, though I do start 100's of plants from seed every year. The spinach (and lettuce if you are growing that) do really well just direct seeded in the ground.
I start things really crowded in little cells. The reason for that is that I only run two heat mats and since they draw a bunch of power, I don't want to add more. So I crowd the seeds to get as much on the heat mats as I can. Once they have true leaves, they come off the heat mats and get spread out to one per little cell. (It's hard to say anything generally - big plants like especially squash, may skip that step and go directly to the three inch pots.) Then more stuff gets planted to fill in the spaces on the heat mat.
When they are out-growing the little cells, with roots coming out or the leaves of neighboring plants shading each other, then they get planted into 3" pots. That is where they stay. I have rarely ever up-potted from there, even though sometimes things like peppers and tomatoes really would have benefitted from more. Again this is not based on doing what is best for the plant, it is just making the whole system work as efficiently as possible. The bigger the pot, the more soil and I go through lots of 50 lb bags of soil ingredients. The bigger the pot, the fewer plants fit under my 16 running feet of lights. And it is a lot of work getting 5 -6 hundred seedlings up-potted. So I just get things out as soon as possible and try not to start too early. Knowing what to plant when is pretty crucial to my system.
I usually do end up, like you, with things blooming under the lights. It may be a sign of stress, but it doesn't really harm them. The plants that flowered still do great once in the ground. The hardening off process is the trickiest part and where I am most likely to lose plants. There is constant pressure to get things out, since I need the space under the lights for the next stuff coming along.
Don't know if any of this is helpful for you in your situation, but it is what works for me for starting a whole bunch of things from seed in a relatively limited space.
I have never started spinach indoors anyway, though I do start 100's of plants from seed every year. The spinach (and lettuce if you are growing that) do really well just direct seeded in the ground.
I start things really crowded in little cells. The reason for that is that I only run two heat mats and since they draw a bunch of power, I don't want to add more. So I crowd the seeds to get as much on the heat mats as I can. Once they have true leaves, they come off the heat mats and get spread out to one per little cell. (It's hard to say anything generally - big plants like especially squash, may skip that step and go directly to the three inch pots.) Then more stuff gets planted to fill in the spaces on the heat mat.
When they are out-growing the little cells, with roots coming out or the leaves of neighboring plants shading each other, then they get planted into 3" pots. That is where they stay. I have rarely ever up-potted from there, even though sometimes things like peppers and tomatoes really would have benefitted from more. Again this is not based on doing what is best for the plant, it is just making the whole system work as efficiently as possible. The bigger the pot, the more soil and I go through lots of 50 lb bags of soil ingredients. The bigger the pot, the fewer plants fit under my 16 running feet of lights. And it is a lot of work getting 5 -6 hundred seedlings up-potted. So I just get things out as soon as possible and try not to start too early. Knowing what to plant when is pretty crucial to my system.
I usually do end up, like you, with things blooming under the lights. It may be a sign of stress, but it doesn't really harm them. The plants that flowered still do great once in the ground. The hardening off process is the trickiest part and where I am most likely to lose plants. There is constant pressure to get things out, since I need the space under the lights for the next stuff coming along.
Don't know if any of this is helpful for you in your situation, but it is what works for me for starting a whole bunch of things from seed in a relatively limited space.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
digitS' post popped in while I was working on mine, so I will just add a bit. When I said 3" pots, I'm really talking about the same 3.5 - 4 " pots digit mentioned.
And yes, my plants do the same hardening off dance a lot at the beginning of the season, in and out and in and out. The door to the deck comes off a little office room. That becomes a plant staging area, with the floor covered in trays of plants that have come back in for the night. Then they do a progression of hardening off stages. The deck has a long plant bench. If it is sunny out, the trays of seedlings may start out under the bench, where they are protected from wind, rain, and direct sun. Then they go on top of the bench. Then they get moved to sunnier locales. The deck is morning sun, shaded by about 2 PM.
I don't have a greenhouse. Some years I make a homemade mini-greenhouse by wrapping a shelf system in plastic, to have a place with a bit of extra protection for some of the hardening off trays of seedlings.
And yes, my plants do the same hardening off dance a lot at the beginning of the season, in and out and in and out. The door to the deck comes off a little office room. That becomes a plant staging area, with the floor covered in trays of plants that have come back in for the night. Then they do a progression of hardening off stages. The deck has a long plant bench. If it is sunny out, the trays of seedlings may start out under the bench, where they are protected from wind, rain, and direct sun. Then they go on top of the bench. Then they get moved to sunnier locales. The deck is morning sun, shaded by about 2 PM.
I don't have a greenhouse. Some years I make a homemade mini-greenhouse by wrapping a shelf system in plastic, to have a place with a bit of extra protection for some of the hardening off trays of seedlings.
First of all, everything already said is good advice. This is what I do just for another viewpoint. I start many plants from seed, but mostly tomatoes and peppers. I start lots of herbs and flowers for my wife. Many of the plants we grow do not get started indoors because they do not like to be transplanted, so read the packets. If it says start indoors (usually it states the time before putting outside), then count back the number of weeks from your normal planting time. If there is no time for early seed starting on the pack, that usually means those seeds need to be sowed in the ground.
Rather than a homemade mixture for seed starting I use a commercial mix. Their mixes are very good and usually cheaper than self blended. Unless you just need to get into blending your own. I do use a potting soilless mix with fertilizer. The amount of fertilizer is fairly small and I have not noticed any seedling burn and when the plant is growing in the pots there is just enough to give it a little food with any other nutrients needing to be added.
All my seed starting is done indoors under a lighting system (that is another topic worth volumes)
I use small six pack plastic pots to start seeds putting 4-6 seeds in each of the six individual cells. The seeds germinate in the dark and when they break the surface the lights get turned on for 16 hours per day. I use a timer for the lights. I do use a fan for stem strength.
When the plants show two true leaves they get transplanted to individual 2" plastic pots or cells of larger multipacks (sometimes 3" if I run out of the 2").
Those 2" or 3" pots are usually good enough to take them up to planting time. Even if I see lots of root growing I do not pot up a third time. The more root the better because that is what you want in a transplant. If you start too early and the plant begins to flower, I would suggest nipping off the flower. By flowering the plant is beginning to put its energy into the reproduction stage and you want to keep it in the root and stem growth stage.
I would not suggest cutting any leaves during the starting process.
For me, the only vegetables I start indoors are tomatoes and peppers. There is no advantage here for early starting vine crops. Cabbage I will start early, but green beans, peas, lettuce goes in the ground when it warms up. Cukes, watermelon, squashes, pumpkins, muskmelons all get direct sown. Up there in the frozen north, you may have to start those a little early. Check with your county extension folks for advice on that for your area, or experiment on your own with some started early and some not.
It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. If it works for you don't change too much, but always be open to different approaches. In the last 40 years I do some things the same and some things differently. Most of all, have fun with it and remember, there is always next year.
Rather than a homemade mixture for seed starting I use a commercial mix. Their mixes are very good and usually cheaper than self blended. Unless you just need to get into blending your own. I do use a potting soilless mix with fertilizer. The amount of fertilizer is fairly small and I have not noticed any seedling burn and when the plant is growing in the pots there is just enough to give it a little food with any other nutrients needing to be added.
All my seed starting is done indoors under a lighting system (that is another topic worth volumes)
I use small six pack plastic pots to start seeds putting 4-6 seeds in each of the six individual cells. The seeds germinate in the dark and when they break the surface the lights get turned on for 16 hours per day. I use a timer for the lights. I do use a fan for stem strength.
When the plants show two true leaves they get transplanted to individual 2" plastic pots or cells of larger multipacks (sometimes 3" if I run out of the 2").
Those 2" or 3" pots are usually good enough to take them up to planting time. Even if I see lots of root growing I do not pot up a third time. The more root the better because that is what you want in a transplant. If you start too early and the plant begins to flower, I would suggest nipping off the flower. By flowering the plant is beginning to put its energy into the reproduction stage and you want to keep it in the root and stem growth stage.
I would not suggest cutting any leaves during the starting process.
For me, the only vegetables I start indoors are tomatoes and peppers. There is no advantage here for early starting vine crops. Cabbage I will start early, but green beans, peas, lettuce goes in the ground when it warms up. Cukes, watermelon, squashes, pumpkins, muskmelons all get direct sown. Up there in the frozen north, you may have to start those a little early. Check with your county extension folks for advice on that for your area, or experiment on your own with some started early and some not.
It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. If it works for you don't change too much, but always be open to different approaches. In the last 40 years I do some things the same and some things differently. Most of all, have fun with it and remember, there is always next year.
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DLup
- Full Member
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- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:46 am
- Location: USDA 4a, Minneapolis, MN, USA
Hi all,
Thanks for all the thoughtful and supportive comments and sorry for the delay in responding…The end of the semester, house guests, and the holidays have taken over until the last couple days! Of course, still managed to find time while the 2 year old was napping to work out my planting plans for the raised beds next year and finalize my seed orders! I must say, much of what I decided to do last year was based largely on my readings (and rereadings) here, including many posts from some of you. Thanks for sharing so much of your experience and knowledge! Both are a big part of why I had a good start last year.
Your careful descriptions above of what you each do are great and I am sure will be helpful for me! With large numbers of plants, I can imagine that up potting does not really work, but I have such relatively small numbers of plants that it is not too much trouble, and, of course, let’s me start gardening in February and March when it is still cold and snowy or cold and wet! I do want to get my tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants in particular as big as possible before planting out to give them as much of a head start as possible given the relatively short growing season here, so I am going to try to move them from the initial containers (tp tubes) to solo cups to yogurt containers and pinch and flowers that develop. That’s the plan anyway!
A couple responses to various points in the above…
Re-purposing and craft time
The toilet paper tubes are pretty easy actually! If you google “toilet paper seedling tubesâ€, the first couple results are among those that I checked out. Here is one of them with good pictures:
https://yougrowgirl.com/toilet-roll-seed-starter/
As I said before, I tried up potting with and without removing the tubes and saw no difference whatsoever. By the time plants were ready to move up, the tubes were already pretty soft and decayed with roots tips poking through, so I think they just act like an extra source of carbon in the medium, probably feeding microbes in the compost in the mix. This year I will not bother removing them at all, although I gather it is important to make sure the top of the tube is buried at up potting so it does not act like a wick and remove moisture from around the seedling.
Any tubes that I do not use for this purpose go into the compost bin, so they get used one way or another in the process! The solo cups were leftovers from one party or another with a keg of beer. We go through a lot of yogurt, so I have saved many one quart yogurt containers for up potting over the last two years (did not get that far last year with up potting). This year I have been saving the small and large rectangular plastic boxes for the pre-washed salad greens to use for leeks and as trays. DigitS’, this is much like your use of the clamshells and the salad boxes could be used for community starting too. I think my favorite repurposing is using the yogurt container lids as seedling labels…Cut the rim off, cut the lid across into strips, cut the longer strips in half, then label with a sharpie and poke into tp tubes! These could work in any spot in the gardening process. Solo cups and yogurt containers can be directly labeled with the sharpie.
Notes
I have been keeping a spreadsheet on the laptop with tabs for each year going back to 2008. For the first couple years I just had my planting layouts, but since 2010 I have also kept a log of activity (planting, fertilizing, mulching, harvesting, etc.), observations on growth and conditions and what not, and amendments to the fill in my raised beds. I am a scientist by training and profession, so this is just sort of how I roll. Of course, my wife just rolls her eyes!
Varieties started indoors
One of the reasons I moved to starting indoors was that we have had problems with damping off most of the leafy greens we started from seed. Lettuces were repeatedly hammered. Kale and collards usually would survive but with a long stem lying on the soil and then bending up towards the sun. This was almost certainly because of starting too early when the boxes were still too wet, so bad on me and my eagerness! By starting things inside, at least last year, I was able to avoid damping off entirely. I did not get to lettuce last year, but I am hoping to get them going and strong enough to thrive. If not, then I can always try from seed!
Thanks again!
David
Thanks for all the thoughtful and supportive comments and sorry for the delay in responding…The end of the semester, house guests, and the holidays have taken over until the last couple days! Of course, still managed to find time while the 2 year old was napping to work out my planting plans for the raised beds next year and finalize my seed orders! I must say, much of what I decided to do last year was based largely on my readings (and rereadings) here, including many posts from some of you. Thanks for sharing so much of your experience and knowledge! Both are a big part of why I had a good start last year.
Your careful descriptions above of what you each do are great and I am sure will be helpful for me! With large numbers of plants, I can imagine that up potting does not really work, but I have such relatively small numbers of plants that it is not too much trouble, and, of course, let’s me start gardening in February and March when it is still cold and snowy or cold and wet! I do want to get my tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants in particular as big as possible before planting out to give them as much of a head start as possible given the relatively short growing season here, so I am going to try to move them from the initial containers (tp tubes) to solo cups to yogurt containers and pinch and flowers that develop. That’s the plan anyway!
A couple responses to various points in the above…
Re-purposing and craft time
The toilet paper tubes are pretty easy actually! If you google “toilet paper seedling tubesâ€, the first couple results are among those that I checked out. Here is one of them with good pictures:
https://yougrowgirl.com/toilet-roll-seed-starter/
As I said before, I tried up potting with and without removing the tubes and saw no difference whatsoever. By the time plants were ready to move up, the tubes were already pretty soft and decayed with roots tips poking through, so I think they just act like an extra source of carbon in the medium, probably feeding microbes in the compost in the mix. This year I will not bother removing them at all, although I gather it is important to make sure the top of the tube is buried at up potting so it does not act like a wick and remove moisture from around the seedling.
Any tubes that I do not use for this purpose go into the compost bin, so they get used one way or another in the process! The solo cups were leftovers from one party or another with a keg of beer. We go through a lot of yogurt, so I have saved many one quart yogurt containers for up potting over the last two years (did not get that far last year with up potting). This year I have been saving the small and large rectangular plastic boxes for the pre-washed salad greens to use for leeks and as trays. DigitS’, this is much like your use of the clamshells and the salad boxes could be used for community starting too. I think my favorite repurposing is using the yogurt container lids as seedling labels…Cut the rim off, cut the lid across into strips, cut the longer strips in half, then label with a sharpie and poke into tp tubes! These could work in any spot in the gardening process. Solo cups and yogurt containers can be directly labeled with the sharpie.
Notes
I have been keeping a spreadsheet on the laptop with tabs for each year going back to 2008. For the first couple years I just had my planting layouts, but since 2010 I have also kept a log of activity (planting, fertilizing, mulching, harvesting, etc.), observations on growth and conditions and what not, and amendments to the fill in my raised beds. I am a scientist by training and profession, so this is just sort of how I roll. Of course, my wife just rolls her eyes!
Varieties started indoors
One of the reasons I moved to starting indoors was that we have had problems with damping off most of the leafy greens we started from seed. Lettuces were repeatedly hammered. Kale and collards usually would survive but with a long stem lying on the soil and then bending up towards the sun. This was almost certainly because of starting too early when the boxes were still too wet, so bad on me and my eagerness! By starting things inside, at least last year, I was able to avoid damping off entirely. I did not get to lettuce last year, but I am hoping to get them going and strong enough to thrive. If not, then I can always try from seed!
Thanks again!
David
I guess if it holds dirt it works! Soup cans are also good with hole a inch from bottom. I let my tomato plants get about 4 inches before I trans plant them except for the thinning of crowded boxes! Since I plant them in grape bones with dirt 5 inches deep I can leave them in longer. I like the flats with no more than 36 cubes since the more per flat the less time they grow before you have to up pot again! There a 6 sets of six cubes in the flats the 6 sets of nine are too small for tomatoes but ok for some other crops like cabbage or cole crops! My plants are exposed to low temperatures in the 30,s for as long as a month and do not need much time to set out since they are really tuff by spring! The old frig drawers make good starting boxes.