When and how to plant paper-towel (pepper) sprouts

[FatDragon]

I've tried growing some pepper seeds with a zero percent success rate so far, probably because I've never grown a thing in my life and didn't do much research. I've got a selection of seeds provided by a (presumably) reputable seller and I'd like to give them a try. Being imported seeds, they're typically sold in small quantities, so my supplies are as low as two seeds for a couple varieties and I'd like to try to maximize germination rate to get as many varieties and peppers as I can.

I live in Wuhan, China - Very humid (typically 60-100%) with current temps averaging around 18 C, summer temps average around 35-40 C, maybe a bit higher. I live in an apartment with smallish three-walled balconies on the north and south sides. Living in China will make some things more difficult; for example, I don't know anything about soils and substrates and fertilizers, and American brand names will do me no good without information on what the product actually is, since the brand will likely be unavailable here so I'll need to figure out an alternative.

I've read a bit about "Byron's Famous Tea Recipe" and the paper towel method, but there's a lot I don't know. For example, is there a 'best' kind of tea to use? I don't have access to Chamomile but I drink a lot of tea and I have various oolongs and greens and reds (sorry, blacks) and aged teas and if I can't have jalapenos and ghost peppers this summer because I used a raw pu-er instead of a ripe pu-er I'll be kicking myself until Spring 2013. How about heating? Should I be searching for heating pads or heat lamps or what? And will my cone coffee filters work as a decent equivalent to a paper towel (no, they don't sell many of those in China) or should I be looking elsewhere?

Basically, I know nothing, and I'd greatly appreciate if someone would tell me what I should know.

Many Scovilles of thanks in advance!

[digitS']

I would like to be of help to you FatDragon but maybe I can just comment on my own experiences with peppers and such.

I am just in from the greenhouse (it will be a few more weeks before most plants can go out to the garden here) and complained about the late germination of some of the eggplants. One variety of pepper was also especially late but I think it will be okay. That pepper seed and the others were old . . . They struggled to get started longer than the other seed in their common containers and I've had a bit of trouble transplanting the larger plants out while leaving the late-starters to grow more. It would have helped to have them all in separate containers.

The temptation with just a few seeds might be to have very small containers for each. You can only go so far that way since the seedlings have a need, especially, for some depth to the starting mix.

As far as the mix goes, maybe coconut fiber coir is available to you. I don't have any experience with that. Are there any composted products available to you?

Heat and peppers go together (Scovilles & all). A seed starting temperature above 25ºC looks just about optimum. That is probably the trouble I had with those old eggplant & pepper seed. The temperature in my seed-starting area is only about 20ºC - good enuf for most but not all.

Teas . . . gosh, I don't know. You are likely to be quite late in your season starting seed. A well-cured compost is what is used to make compost tea and it takes some time. Seaweed & fish emulsion is good stuff but if it isn't available to you . . . Tea from your teakettle . . . I drink teas but the spent leaves just go in with lots of peelings & such from the kitchen. Coffee grounds are common additives to compost and garden soil. Maybe you can do a real quick compost with items like these.

Steve

[stella1751]

Peppers are a good choice for balcony gardens, FatDragon! South exposure is preferable to north exposure. I looked up your temperatures, and 35 C is plenty hot. I might have done it wrong. It says that is 95 F!

I start tons of peppers each year. They are my favorite plant to grow. I start them right in the soil. I think they like that way the best. I use small, even tiny, plastic containers from 5 to 10 cm (2 to 4 inches) across. I take the work out of mixing a seed-starting soil by buying a pre-mixed one. If you have a local nursery, the proprietors can advise you what to buy. You won't need much, not to start the seed.

I moisten the starter mix and pack it firmly in the little container. Then I make a hole in the center at the desired depth, put the seed it, and gently push the soil over it. Don't plant the seeds too deeply. Follow the package instructions carefully. If they don't have instructions, tell us what kind you are growing, and one of us will know.

Keep the soil moist. Some people put plastic covers over the pots to keep the moisture in. I mist mine several times a day. Peppers germinate best when the soil temperature is 24 to 30 C (75 to 85 F). If it doesn't get that warm in your apartment, use an external heat source to warm them up. I use a simple heating pad you can buy in the pharmacy section of grocery stores here.

You won't need a light source until the peppers germinate. This year, I am experimenting with putting my peppers outside during the day as soon as their first leaves (cotyledons) unfurl (open up). They seem to like that. If you can't do that, you will need to either put them in a window sill or buy indoor plant lights for them. All I know about plant lights is that I bought a nice, big one that works extremely well for me.

When they outgrow their tiny baby pots, you can put them in the adult container of your choice.

When does winter start there? Peppers can over-winter in the house if you give them the right environment, so you probably have plenty of time. They are happiest outside, though.

If your seeds don't work for you, let us know. I don't know how the customs department works in China or how much it costs to send something to China. However, we may be able to help you out with free seeds.

[FatDragon]

Thanks a lot for the help so far!

Since I don't know about the availability of a pre-mixed seed-starter, what are the typical ingredients in a starter soil? The online seed seller I bought from gave similar recommendations, so I might try planting directly in seed starter rather than germinating with some variation of the paper towel method, but I need to know what to start them in, since the potting soil I've bought seems to be terrible for the purpose and I can't find any information on the stuff that the seller mentioned, it doesn't seem to translate well and the only Chinese website links I can search up just say to use it, not what it is.

Should I try the aforementioned Byron's Tea thingy at the start - what I've read says that between the weak tea and a night in the fridge the seeds should be well-prepped to grow, something about softening the hull, mimicking the cold season that occurs before the seeds are ready to sprout in the wild, and antifungal properties, which would be particularly good in Wuhan's humidity, which is even higher than usual so far this spring. Also, if the paper towel method is effective for sprouting viable pepper seeds, that might be a better sprouting method as it gives me more time to find a worthy substrate.

Now for the peppers in question:

Yellow 7 Pot
Tobago Seasoning
Chocolate Ghost
Ghost
Jalapeno
and a mixture of "rare and precious" varieties - 15 seeds that appear to belong to 3-5 different varieties (there's mouseover text and pictures of the 22 possible varieties at https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10549420878)

As for sending seeds over, I really appreciate that someone who's never met me would even consider that, but I don't think that's allowed with Chinese customs - I don't actually know about the legality of the imported seeds that I bought online, but if there's anything wrong, I assume it's on the seller. Anyway, if I need more, I can buy more from him or another source, I'm just hoping to get them started soon so I'll have peppers coming up before my month and a half trip back to the US in July, so I'm hoping that these ones will succeed.

[stella1751]

If you asked any member on this forum for a seed-starting soil recipe, I'll bet you would get a different answer. I know one member starts his in just sand! A seed starting soil must be light, maintain form when pressed, and retain moisture. If I were to start my own, I would go with one-third peat moss, one-third sterilized soil, and one-third compost. The peat moss we use here generally comes from Canada, so you might not have access to it. The alternative suggested by DigitS is coconut coir, also known as coconut peat. I would add small quantities of perlite, too, which will help with water retention and keeping the mix light.

As for the Bryon's tea method, I've never tried it, but I might, now that you've mentioned it. It sounds like it would work, and it sounds interesting! I know that several members recommend a pre-soaking to soften tough hulls. I'm wishing I had done this with some peas I planted two weeks ago, peas that have yet to germinate. Yes, I will definitely try this next year.

Your list of peppers is wonderfully ecletic! I've never even heard of Yellow 7 Pot. Common jalapenos seem out of place in a list like that. However, the ones with which I am familiar appear to be ideal for containers. I don't think any will go over three feet tall.

Back to the soil mix, I recommend you start a seed-starter soil mix thread. If you get enough responses, you can pick and choose which will work best in your situation, with readily available ingredients.

[digitS']

. . . I need to know what to start them in, since the potting soil I've bought seems to be terrible for the purpose . . .

So, you already have some "potting soil," eh? Could it be that the reason you think that it is "terrible" is because it is coarse?

Something like that could be fairly terrible for seed starting. Perhaps, you can sift it. I often make potting soil, not for seed starting but for perennials in larger pots. The "top soil" that is usually available bagged, isn't better than what I can get out of the garden. It doesn't have the rocks but is usually full of wood, half-decomposed.

The garden soil is sifted thru a 1/4 inch (.6cm) screen to remove rocks. I then mix it with peat moss and perlite at 1:1:.5 and include a measure of organic fertilizer. The sifting would be even more important with a seed starting mix whether you are removing rocks, wood, or anything else.

By the way, it is interesting that your link to pepper seeds came up blank on my monitor. Is there some concern that peppers may be subversive . . ?

Steve

[stella1751]

By the way, it is interesting that your link to pepper seeds came up blank on my monitor. Is there some concern that peppers may be subversive . . ?

Steve

Not subversive, Steve, but a little difficult to read. Make that a LOT difficult to read I had to search taoboa.com. I made it as far as [url=https://search1.taobao.com/browse/search_auction.htm?at_topsearch=1]this page[/url] and gave up

[FatDragon]

It's coming up blank for me, strangely, though if I navigate through Taobao I get the page just fine with the exact same address. It's no real matter, though.

The main reason I consider the potting soil I bought to be terrible is its lack of drainage, like I said, some of it's still wet after a couple weeks unwatered. It's probably also an issue of overwatering on my part, though - I don't know much about watering to start seeds - I'll definitely need to get a spray bottle or a mister of some sort.

I'll head down to the local(ish) gardening supply marketplace tomorrow and see what I can do about a seed starting mix, whether they've got one premixed or I have to make my own. The local earth is red clay, so I don't think I'll be sifting that, but maybe if I sift the potting soil I bought it'll be a bit more reasonable.

Two questions: what kind of drainage should I go for on the germinating containers, and how long should I expect to wait for the seeds to germinate? If they take too long, they're bound to mold in Wuhan, is there any preventative for this?

Many thanks to both of you for your generous assistance!

[applestar]

If what you have is heavy not draining well soil, you can add 1 part sand to 2 parts of the soil you have. If you can get the finely shredded coco coir, you could try 1 part coco coir, 1 part sand, and 1 part soil.

If you can get volcanic or granite sand get those. Otherwise, any sand will do. If you have any question that the sand might be beach sand, it's probably a good idea to rinse it first to get the salt out.

When you say what kind of drainage -- if you mean should there be holes, I'd say yes, definitely. More the better.

[rainbowgardener]

If you have access to perlite or vermiculite, that is usually used in potting soil mixes here to lighten the soil up and improve drainage.

[leke]

40C summers! Wow, that's pretty hot. You might want to have a look at growing Habanero Peppers

Habanero chili peppers are the hottest commercially grown pepper today. The plants are very hardy and can survive very hot summers.

Source: https://www.famouschilirecipes.com/types-of-chili-peppers.html

There are also milder types of habanero if you aren't a fan of too much heat. I guess they will also have the reputation of doing well in the hottest climates.

[FatDragon]

40C summers! Wow, that's pretty hot. You might want to have a look at growing Habanero Peppers

Habanero chili peppers are the hottest commercially grown pepper today. The plants are very hardy and can survive very hot summers.

Source: https://www.famouschilirecipes.com/types-of-chili-peppers.html

There are also milder types of habanero if you aren't a fan of too much heat. I guess they will also have the reputation of doing well in the hottest climates.

Thanks, I actually bought the Tobago Seasoning peppers as a kind of habanero, though it's not exactly the same. Sometimes I don't put in enough time when reading product pages in Chinese

Thanks for the suggestion of Perlite/Vermiculite - I'll keep an eye out for them when I'm out tomorrow. Likewise to the suggestions from applestar - perlite/vermiculite, coconut coir, peat moss, and sand are all on my short list for now.

Any ideas on the potential germination times and space/light needs of these particular peppers?

[stella1751]

Peppers can vary in germination depending upon their environment. I used a heating pad under the ones I planted this year (two Anaheim types, a freakish Super Chile cross, and something called NuMex Twilight). The first peppers to come up were the Anaheim types, beginning at 6 days. By 9 days, all types were coming up. However, I had one Anaheim type emerge as late as 18 days. I suspect I got careless on the planting depth on some of them. It happens.

I have decided that when you are here in July, you should take advantage of the late-seed sales. If you buy a regular bun or roll and moisten it lightly, you can stick the seeds to it for transport back into China. It iwll look for all the world like a sesame seed bun, and no one will ever notice

[leke]

Just checking out your regional weather and it looks like you might even be able to overwinter your pepper plants.

If overwintering sounds like something you want to do, you might even want to look at getting some rocoto peppers.I hear they are quite cold tolerant (As long as it doesn't frost where you are).

[FatDragon]

Okay, so I've officially gotten started.

Yesterday I went out to get some garden supplies - stuff for a seed starting soil and a heater primarily. The gardening market is right next to the fish shops I go to for aquarium purposes, so I checked there for a heating pad, but with no luck. I'd already been foiled at supermarkets and pharmacies, so I decided to improvise - I bought a 100W aquarium glass heater, filled a small washbasin halfway with water and turned the heater to 90 degrees F (a bit hotter than necessary to account for heat lost in transfer), and floated another plastic washbasin on top. For the soil, I got some stringy soil that includes some peat moss and coco coir, and some volcanic rock stuff that was recommended as an alternative to vermiculite/perlite.

Last night I used "Byron's Weak Tea" method (paper towel, very weak tea, overnight in fridge) to get the seeds ready to sprout, and in the morning before work I put the paper towels in plastic bags, puffed them up a bit, and put them in my makeshift heater. Came back from work today and decided to get as many seeds potted as I could fit in the heater's space. To make the sprouting soil, I broke up most of the volcanic rocks that look like rabbit leavings into smaller, black, porous material and mixed it 1:1:1 with the heavier potting soil I already had and the stringy mix I bought yesterday (and a little bit of general purpose fertilizer - good idea? bad idea?). It's light and looks like it should drain well. I got about 15 paper cup pots in the heater trying to represent every variety I've got so far. I noticed when I opened up the paper towels to transfer the seeds that two of the seeds from the mystery mix have already started opening up, but since I'm not sure how far I should let them sprout before transferring the paper towel sprouted seeds, I left them in there and transferred some others.

So that's where I'm at right now - two seeds already starting to sprout in the paper towels (okay, coffee filters), about 30 more in that same situation sans sprouting, and 15 various seeds planted about 1/4 inch deep and moistened with more of the weak tea. Am I doing well or is my current optimism just a smokescreen?

[digitS']

Sounds like you are on course, FD. I like your idea of a water basin heat source. Very ingenious .

I am a little concerned about your "stringy" starting mix. It is important that seeds maintain contact with the material for easy transfer of water. Seed starting mix is finely milled stuff.

What do you intend to do with the seed that have cases already open? Don't you think they should come out of the paper and into the mix?

The plant nutrients available within the seed is sufficient for a week or so even if the mix is essentially sterile. Granular organic fertilizer has some potential to promote mold. Synthetic fertilizer probably doesn't - kills anything that touches it . . . no, just kidding.

. . . but, all this might just be part of my fretful nature. Best not to let that be squared² on both sides of the Pacific . I'll say again, it sounds like you are on course, FD!

Steve

[applestar]

When using the paper towel method to pre-germinate, plant the seeds in soil as soon as The little root tip shows.

Sounds like you are doing fine. You did put holes in the paper cup pots right? I think the soil mix you made should work. All you have to do now if give them plenty of light after they come up out of the ground.

Have fun!

[FatDragon]

Alright, so it sounds like the seeds that have opened up should be cup-potted tonight then? I'll do that, as well as checking on the other coffee filter seeds. Yes, I poked drainage holes - four pencil pokes through the whole stack, then a few scissor snips around the base of the edges so water isn't trapped under the cups. Problem is that I'm already out of space in my heater basin - I've already got to ride out about halfway to the fish/gardening supply street tonight - maybe I'll have to double the distance and get another aquarium heater or two - the basins are easy to find anywhere but heaters are more of a specialty, and if I need them to expand my heating space, well, so it goes.

I feel pretty good about my soil - the potting soil is fairly fine if beaten out of its clumps, the mix lightens it up, and a lot of the volcanic stuff broke down to a fine sand for both fineness and drainage.

I'm pretty sure the fertilizer is organic - it's fine like soil and smells like compost. I can't read much of the bag, though, as it's in traditional characters whereas I've been learning simplified for the past five years. Well, that and the fact that it's gardening language - jargon in a foreign language is even worse than jargon in your native language. I only mixed in a little bit, either way.

As for light - I just need to double-check - everyone I know here who grows Chinese chilies shades their plants from direct sunlight - going so far as to put a tarp over them on nice days. I don't know if that's because of the variety or because they're usually transplanting six-inch seedlings and need to let them grow their roots into the clay-like soil, but I'm a bit wary of burning my precious babies. As for the nature of the light, should I be sunning them on a windowsill or giving them artificial light, and if it's artificial, what kind of source should I use?

And how about heat? When should I stop heating the seedlings and let them acclimate to the local weather, which should probably hover in the current 23-25 degrees Celsius averages of spring for a couple more weeks at least? Do they need artificial heating until the weather catches up with the heater, or will there be a point where they're alright to weather a couple weeks of not-yet-tropical temperatures.

Sorry for so many long questions - I'm trying to learn as much as I can in a short time and I find it's much better to learn from a teacher than a textbook. Thanks bundles for all of the help you've given me so far!

[digitS']

That's good to know about your potting soil, FG.

Shading the peppers would only make sense - to me - if they need to grow roots after transplanting, as you say, or it there is concern about fruit sun-scald. Container growing is a little foreign to me. I just have too much trouble maintaining good soil moisture. Perhaps, there is reason to shade because of those problems.

Peppers like heat but think of heat and light together, FG. With inadequate light and too much heat, the plants are inclined to stretch, searching for more light. If there is plenty of light, within reason, more heat won't hurt.

I've done just fine with sunny windows for seedlings. If there is inadequate sunlight thru that window, you may want to supplement light with an electric fixture. I've done that but going 100% electric is beyond my experience.

The plants are likely to be happiest outdoors with some protection, most any day during the growing season. Give them a few weeks in first maternity ward, then nursery, then kindergarten environments before sending them too far out into the wide world, however.

Steve