This is a hard lesson for me to follow. Years of pruning technique are called to question; have I truly done so much harm? Last year I pruned a clients apple trees that produced badly the year before. Hard. They produced gangbusters this year. But they had been pruned before and had gotten congested, making pruning difficult and laborious.
I will not prune leaders, and Sensei is most correct in assuming a leader in citrus. But apples? I think there is a series of degrees here, but I am no fruit expert. I would love to hear from some...
HG
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The Helpful Gardener
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There is also the issue of space.... I can't afford not to prune. I don't have the room to grow full sized trees. Besides, we're already messing with nature by growing grafted trees.
What would happen if I let these "natures abominations" (?) grow as they will? Would the dwarfing rootstock be sufficient to curb the top growth? Would the top grow beyond the capacity of the rootstock to support it?
What about my espaliered fruit trees?
If you have the space to grow natural growth trees on their own roots would they grow well? Apples, I think we talked about before in ref to Michael Pollan's book Botany of Desire -- that they have been severely domesticated. I think there is a general belief (true or not) that most modern apple cultivar CAN'T grow on their own roots. Even standard size apples are grafted. So go back to the antique apples? What about all the disease and insect resistance that have been bred into them? What about that most apples were bred for cider or cooking apples until the more recent preference for fresh dessert apples changed the market and direction of apple cultivation?
Well that's just talking about apples, but other fruit trees may have similar issues.
What would happen if I let these "natures abominations" (?) grow as they will? Would the dwarfing rootstock be sufficient to curb the top growth? Would the top grow beyond the capacity of the rootstock to support it?
What about my espaliered fruit trees?
If you have the space to grow natural growth trees on their own roots would they grow well? Apples, I think we talked about before in ref to Michael Pollan's book Botany of Desire -- that they have been severely domesticated. I think there is a general belief (true or not) that most modern apple cultivar CAN'T grow on their own roots. Even standard size apples are grafted. So go back to the antique apples? What about all the disease and insect resistance that have been bred into them? What about that most apples were bred for cider or cooking apples until the more recent preference for fresh dessert apples changed the market and direction of apple cultivation?
Well that's just talking about apples, but other fruit trees may have similar issues.
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The Helpful Gardener
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AS seems to have the same issues I am having with this section, but are we clinging to old thinking or actually making true distinctions?
The apple question is a topical place to start as it is the most ubiquitous, domesticated case I can think of. I would love to hear more about F-san's approach to determine just how little he did for his trees; it seems to have been mostly soil building...
HG
The apple question is a topical place to start as it is the most ubiquitous, domesticated case I can think of. I would love to hear more about F-san's approach to determine just how little he did for his trees; it seems to have been mostly soil building...
HG
Here's Fukuoka's approach to trees and pruning. In general he believes trees do best when they are allowed to grow to their natural form. Most fruit trees have been so affected by horticultural activity over thousands of years that is difficult to determine what their original form was. Fukuoka-san went to the forest and observed how trees grow in general and was able to infer the natural forms of our familiar fruit trees. It varies, but for the most part they grow with a single main leader with branches coming out regularly either opposite each other on the the main trunk or in whorls. His plan was to trim the trees slightly when they young, during the first 4 or five years, but only to maintain their natural form.
When trees come from the nursery they almost always have the main leader clipped. He never clips the main leader. He also likes to grow some trees from seed. These trees usually are a bust commercially, but sometimes they turn out to be pretty interesting. He said that added to the fun.
Most orchard trees are pruned low and wide mainly for the convenience of harvesting. Most require pruning every year to maintain that shape. For Fukuoka, once the tree grows out with a good form from the beginning it needs almost no pruning from there. Fukuoka loves full sized trees, although of course that is not practicle in a back yard. With regular branching it is easy to climb the trees to harvest, although ladders are also used. The fruit at the top which cannot be reached become an offering to God...and to birds and other wildlife which he believes embody God/Nature.
When trees come from the nursery they almost always have the main leader clipped. He never clips the main leader. He also likes to grow some trees from seed. These trees usually are a bust commercially, but sometimes they turn out to be pretty interesting. He said that added to the fun.
Most orchard trees are pruned low and wide mainly for the convenience of harvesting. Most require pruning every year to maintain that shape. For Fukuoka, once the tree grows out with a good form from the beginning it needs almost no pruning from there. Fukuoka loves full sized trees, although of course that is not practicle in a back yard. With regular branching it is easy to climb the trees to harvest, although ladders are also used. The fruit at the top which cannot be reached become an offering to God...and to birds and other wildlife which he believes embody God/Nature.
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Thanks for the clarification, Larry. I agree about the nature of nursery trees being less like nature than nursery. I know someone that got fired because she took her tree protective oath to heart and wouldn't take leaders out of nursery stock. I tend to think of Kathy as somewhat of a hero...
But as noted, a full sized tree is not possible for many of us. I surely couldn't do one in my yard. Are we creating monsters when we prune to suit our needs? Are we creating work we don't want? Are we further manipulating plants we have been genetically manipulating for millenia?
Still riding the fence...
HG
But as noted, a full sized tree is not possible for many of us. I surely couldn't do one in my yard. Are we creating monsters when we prune to suit our needs? Are we creating work we don't want? Are we further manipulating plants we have been genetically manipulating for millenia?
Still riding the fence...
HG
HG, my dad is in the apple business. Big business, nationwide, selling a product that shuts down ethylene receptors. It's a gas that is applied in the warehouse.
I told him about Fukuoka's method for caring for citrus, and he told me that he's heard of that in apple cultivation and the growers who do it love it. the trees have a different shape, but produce very well and have fewer problems, and of course there is less labor.
as for apples in general, the problem with not grafting is tha very few seeds will produce an eating apple, regardless of which apple you took it from. The apple cannot be "heirloomed", no matter how much breeding you do. It's just dumb luck that every thousand or so seeds makes an apple we can eat. The rest are only good for cider. And we don't keep cider orchards, so we get fewer surprises.
By the way, the difference between organic apples and conventional is an imaginary line in the orchard. The producers and the properties are the same.
In the northeast, we are just starting to see more variety. In the 1930's, there were a couple a very, very cold winters that killed all the varieties but macintosh, which is a horrible apple to work with. It was so cold the trees actually split down the trunk.
I told him about Fukuoka's method for caring for citrus, and he told me that he's heard of that in apple cultivation and the growers who do it love it. the trees have a different shape, but produce very well and have fewer problems, and of course there is less labor.
as for apples in general, the problem with not grafting is tha very few seeds will produce an eating apple, regardless of which apple you took it from. The apple cannot be "heirloomed", no matter how much breeding you do. It's just dumb luck that every thousand or so seeds makes an apple we can eat. The rest are only good for cider. And we don't keep cider orchards, so we get fewer surprises.
By the way, the difference between organic apples and conventional is an imaginary line in the orchard. The producers and the properties are the same.
In the northeast, we are just starting to see more variety. In the 1930's, there were a couple a very, very cold winters that killed all the varieties but macintosh, which is a horrible apple to work with. It was so cold the trees actually split down the trunk.
Thanks for the information, Toil. Fukuoka does graft most of his citrus to rootstock. That doesn't affect the form of the top, except of course if it is a dwarfing rootstock or something like that. The pruning principles are the same. One fruit tree that does really well if left unpruned is pear. They naturally grow tall and in sort of a columnar shape (like a column). The tops eventually turn down making a beautiful fountain affect. Pears are our biggest agricultural crop here in Southern Oregon. It is the home of Harry and David, if you have heard of them out where you are.
Techniques like espallier are quite useful for saving space in a small yard. Essentially they become a living, food producing fence or hedge. Apples are one of the most commonly used trees for espallier. You have to make some compromises to Fukuoka's natural farming techniques in what permaculturist refer to as Zone 1, or the most visited area closest to the house where the garden needs the most intensive care. That is often the only area we have to garden, especially if we live in town. Permaculture techniques are really creative for stacking time and space in the yard, as well as moderating extremes of hot and cold, strong winds, for screening, mixing chicken production with the vegetables and so forth. Even Fukuoka had an organic garden in the yard near his home in the village where remember he used prepared compost. By the way, he was pretty good at creating bonsai trees. Go figure.
Techniques like espallier are quite useful for saving space in a small yard. Essentially they become a living, food producing fence or hedge. Apples are one of the most commonly used trees for espallier. You have to make some compromises to Fukuoka's natural farming techniques in what permaculturist refer to as Zone 1, or the most visited area closest to the house where the garden needs the most intensive care. That is often the only area we have to garden, especially if we live in town. Permaculture techniques are really creative for stacking time and space in the yard, as well as moderating extremes of hot and cold, strong winds, for screening, mixing chicken production with the vegetables and so forth. Even Fukuoka had an organic garden in the yard near his home in the village where remember he used prepared compost. By the way, he was pretty good at creating bonsai trees. Go figure.
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This is the biggest question I have with F-san's manifesto; it seems we need to constantly assess the hardline of his teachings against the rock of reality and I find myself caught between the rock and the hardplace time and again. 
More and more I think of his teachings as an ideal to strive for rather than a hardline rule of law. Perhaps this is best?
HG
More and more I think of his teachings as an ideal to strive for rather than a hardline rule of law. Perhaps this is best?
HG
I think you're right, Scott. Does perfection really exist when we are talking about human beings? Nature...perhaps, but people? Not sure. In some other material of his that I am just working through he says that for many years after he had that "enlightenment" he lost sight of it. He still worked in that direction, groping around, but the vision itself was fleeting.
I agree on your "rock and a hard place" HG. There's just some things I couldn't/wouldn't do. I'd cover every field around here in a foot of compost if I could find a way 
(PS-sorry I've been absent but since rediscovering the library I've read like two dozen books including pretty much every book Jodi Picoult has written
If anyone has any recommended reading pm me! 
)
(PS-sorry I've been absent but since rediscovering the library I've read like two dozen books including pretty much every book Jodi Picoult has written
If anyone has any recommended reading pm me! )