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applestar
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Playing with Apple Cider and Other Fruit Vinegars

In [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92053#92053]this thread[/url]:
top_dollar_bread wrote:Man was I disappointed, I read my bottle and it said in fine print that this is vinegar flavored as apple cider..now I got me a bottle of stuff I don't know what to do with.
I actually wanted to drink REAL apple cider vinegar for the health benefits and use for brewing tea’s but I guess not.
You can use it to help make GOOD ACV. I can't give you the exact details because I don't really know the best way -- and right now, I can't seem to find the website in which people were saying how they used mixture of distilled vinegar and starter good ACV with THE MOTHER to make more so this is all from vague memory -- but I can give you the gist and maybe you can go from there:

Get a big glass apple cider jug -- or any glass or ceramic jar or jug -- put your imitation vinegar in it, add apple peelings and core. Shake every day for a week. Strain and discard the apple pieces.
Add something like 1/5~1/4 by liquid volume of good organic ACV INCLUDING THE MOTHER. I usually buy Eden Foods brand or Braggs. Braggs tends to have a more serious looking MOTHER -- looks like a jellyfish.
Use a piece of cheesecloth and rubberband for a cap. Keep in a dark place.
It takes about a month for THE MOTHER to convert the whole jug.

These ideas were gleaned from these sources (AND that other link that I can't find):

[url=https://italianfood.about.com/library/weekly/aa051003.htm?terms=vinegar]How to make some from just apples or apple cider (better with unpasteurized)[/url]

[url=https://cricketbread.com/blog/2007/06/26/fruit-scrap-vinegar/]Fruit Scrap Vinegar[/url]

https://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/how_to_make_apple_cider_vinegar.html

** BY THE WAY ** Once you buy a bottle of organic ACV with THE MOTHER in it, don't finish it up. When you've decanted as much vinegar as you can without getting the mother slurping out of it, start adding left over juice. I add apple juice, apple cider, and white grape juice, and most kids' fruit juices that has apple or berry juice base (I DON'T add orange juice) and keep it in the dark corner of the pantry. In the mean time, I get a second bottle, and when I'm nearly done with that, the first bottle should be ready to use, so I start adding left over juice to the 2nd bottle. I also keep a jar of water to toss apple peelings and core in for a week, strain and add (I sometimes forget and it gets moldy at the top. It's supposed to be OK -- just skim the mold off the top (if it's jelly-like then it's a start of THE MOTHER, not mold). Supposedly this is why a vinegar barrel has the... bunge?... tap about 1/4 or 1/3 the way above the bottom of the barrel -- THE MOTHER stays at the bottom, mold at the top) When I need to discard and consolidate bottles, I always swish the bottles with filtered water several times and save every little bit of THE MOTHER that might be left in the botttom.

There! That's the extent of what I know and have done so far... if anyone has more experience with this, please chime in! I'd like to learn more. 8) :wink:

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I love this thread. I use vinegar in many ways around the house. It is used to wipe windows to get them sparkling clean and as a flavoring agent and preservative in my Bar-B-Q sauce.

I've always been aware that commercial vinegar (including apple cider vinegar) is not a natural product. It normally is about 5% acetic acid in water. Acetic acid is a product manufactured in chemical plants from a normal base product received from petroleum refineries. In other words our household vinegar comes from crude oil or natural gas.

I use it in most cases instead of natural vinegar because of vinegar eel worms. The worm is found only in naturally produced vinegar and it is the only place it lives. It will not harm you if it is consumed, but I've watched them wiggling under microscopes and prefer not to consume them.

Ted

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Okay, I just read the ingredients on my Heinz brand apple cider vinegar bottle. It states "This vinegar is made from the juice of apples". I suppose they cook it and filter it after the fermentation process to remove the vinegar eels.

I don't think you would want to use the unprocessed natural fruit vinegar in an ACT preparation because of the presence of vinegar eels. There whole purpose in life is to eat the bacteria and yeast that you are attempting to propagate in an ACT solution. They can live for a period of time in a weaker acid solution as would be found in an ACT brew.

Ted

top_dollar_bread
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AS
thank you so much
I'm going to have to give this a try, ill probably follow your instructions to the word.….Hoping youve done this before
this can really save me money because real apple cider vinegar is pretty pricy. Thanx again!!
By the way can I use mother found in the bottom of 100% organic apple juice??
When I do get the time and do this, ill post pictures if every thing works out!!
applestar wrote:In [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92053#92053]this thread[/url]:
by the way how do you do this?? making a link show as a word or short sentence?? can this be done with images too?

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applestar wrote:In [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92053#92053]this thread[/url]
Looks like

Code: Select all

In [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92053#92053]this thread[/url]
--
Don't know what you mean about images. You want the images to show embedded so we can all see the picture as we read... ? Elaborate your question for me. :wink:

top_dollar_bread
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applestar wrote:Get a big glass apple cider jug -- or any glass or ceramic jar or jug -- put your imitation vinegar in it, add apple peelings and core.
A_S do you know if I can smash whole apples into a a bitter mush, instead of using just the peels and core??

and instead of addng real ACV with mother, can I use 100% organic apple juice, witch has mother on the bottom?

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Hi all,

My Grandfather made the absolute best Cider Vinegar (or vintger, as he spelled it) I ever tasted and since his death my brother and myself have taken up the mantle of vinegar producers for the entire family, so perhaps I can shed some light.

The first thing you need to keep in mind is that vinegar is produced from the consumption of alcohol, not fruit juice. Here's how it works for us. We make homemade cider in the same antique press our grandfather used. This cider is not pasteurized or treated in any way. Not all of the cider is used by the time it begins to turn hard, and this is destined to become our Vinegar. Naturally occurring yeasts convert the sugars to alcohol, the first step in the process.

Since not many people have a cider press hanging around I suppose you can try to procure some local cider and let it turn hard. I am not certain but I suspect that pasteurized cider can be used but I would avoid anything with preservatives as they will obviously inhibit the yeasts from doing their work. Also, I'm sure our old press harbors wild yeasts so a quick trip to your local wine/beer supply shop for a pack of yeast may be in order, especially if pasteurized cider is used. They may even have Mother available there.

Once this process is complete the the Mother is introduced. The vessel containing the inoculated hard cider is covered with cheesecloth as oxygen is necessary for the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter]Acetobacter[/url] to transform the alcohol to acetic acid. This process can be considered analogous to the initial one where sugar is consumed and alcohol produced.

Once the process is complete the vinegar is transferred to gallon jugs for storage and a healthy sample of mother is stored in a mason jar of vinegar for the next batch. The Mother can be cultivated for the rest of your life by renewing it every year or so as needed.

The product we make is much stronger than commercial vinegar and so dark as to appear black in the jug. If you hold it up to a light bulb though you can see that it is clear and clean. This is the first time I ever heard of vinegar eel worms, I have been consuming this family specialty for decades and have no intention of letting a few worms spoil a tradition.

Of course I haven't told all, :wink: but this should get you started.

Norm

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Hi Norm,

Your right, the vinegar eel worms are nothing to worry about. If you happened to want them out, all you have to do is filter the final product through a coffee filter and they are gone. That coffee filter process is the method used by tropical fish enthusiasts to capture the eels for fish food. New born baby fish find the eels the perfect size for food. Because the eels remain alive and always wiggle in an aquarium for a time, it is also good predatory practice for the fish.

Actually I've had a few eel worms myself with no bad results. I've had friends who made wines from various fruits. In the wine making process, if the sugar to alcohol fermentation process isn't just right, it sometimes goes quickly from wine to vinegar.

I'm also a big fan of real balsamic vinegar. As long as that stuff is aged and concentrated, it surely had a lot of eels along the way.

I am curious about the uses of real home made vinegar. I use store bought vinegar for many purposes because it has antibacterial, flavoring, and anti fungal properties. Store bought is typically 5% acetic acid. I have no idea how strong home brewed vinegar is. What do you use it for?

Ted

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tedln,

Thanks for the reassurance, I'll keep the filter method in mind.

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I am curious about the uses of real home made vinegar. I use store bought vinegar for many purposes because it has antibacterial, flavoring, and anti fungal properties. Store bought is typically 5% acetic acid. I have no idea how strong home brewed vinegar is. What do you use it for?
I have no idea how strong our Vinegar is but I am sure it is substantially stronger than commercially prepared Cider Vinegar. I only use it for culinary purposes as it is, in my opinion, too special to use for such mundane purposes as cleaning windows or counter tops. For that we do usually keep some white vinegar on hand.

I have some stored that is easily 20 years old and has gone through an inadvertent concentrating/flavoring process. To me it is the equivalent of Balsamic Vinegar.

Norm

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Oooh. Drroool... 8) I'll be coming back to ask more questions, Gnome! :wink:

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So I just checked on my old bottle of THE MOTHER and juice. It may not the the way to make the first batch from scratch (still looking at that as something I want to try some day -- do you use perfect apples or do you use windfall and wormy apples? I think I read that somewhere....)...

... ANYWAY (waving away the tantalizing thoughts for another day :wink: ) -- something is definitely going on in there: Lots of tiny bubbles rising from the bottom and lovely Apple Cider smell. :D

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ok I gave this a try and I may have messed up or did it all wrong??
I first threw some apples in a food processor, turned them to mush.
then I got a mesh cloth and squeezed all the juices out into a container. I have been letting the juice site for weeks now and its been making rice crispy noises for a while :lol:
Now it seems to have stopped and I may be wrong but I believe I see mother chilling at the bottom?? the juices smell like wine and I really don't know what I'm doing...
What now? Is it supposed to smell like wine?
any help please

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top_dollar_bread,

Sorry for the delay. I think you are off to a good start, alcohol is the first step toward vinegar. Not sure you have mother or not, I always carry over some from a previous batch. You can probably get some mother from a purchased bottle of natural vinegar w/mother. Once you get started you can keep it going for years.

Norm

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applestar,
do you use perfect apples or do you use windfall and wormy apples?
There's a bit of contention over that in our family. My brother would use anything that is not rotten while I am more particular. But no we don't confine ourselves to perfect apples, if we did we would not get much cider. How is your batch coming along?

Norm

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Gnome wrote:top_dollar_bread,

Sorry for the delay. I think you are off to a good start, alcohol is the first step toward vinegar. Not sure you have mother or not, I always carry over some from a previous batch. You can probably get some mother from a purchased bottle of natural vinegar w/mother. Once you get started you can keep it going for years.

Norm
:D
I think I did it!!!??? ill post pictures soon, but the pure apple juice now smells like vinegar and I may be wrong, but I think I have mother at the bottom..
ill post images soon so maybe some one can confirm this for me... but I'm not sure if I want to drink it??
I'm a bit worried, will definitely test it in tea's and some lab rat container herbs...
big thanks for the replies/ help and A_S for posting on this subject!!
8)

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I had to strain out my oldest jar of apple scrap vinegar to make room for new scraps. So I took the opp. to take pictures. Check out the respectable looking MOTHER: :wink:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image6075.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image6074.jpg[/img]

I suppose I really ought to keep records of when this was started and maybe even find my pack of Litmus paper and check acidity, etc. :roll: 8) I should have taken a picture of the strained vinegar but I poured it into the bottle in which I cook up the left-over fruit juices.... I did a finger-dip taste test -- it wasn't very sour but had a nice fruity apple cider vinegar flavor.

I put the mother in the bottom of the emptied jar, topped with the latest bunch of scraps and some spring water and a rubber banded paper towel lid --> back in the cupboard it went.

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I strained out the ones in the cupboard again. The bottled ones from last year is looking/smelling great (more fruit juices were added over the year -- one bottle fizzed when I shook up the sediment). Saved the mother from the cupboard scrap jars for another year of apple/fruit scraps.

Processing was late this year because I didn't have a good apple harvest. :(

I don't trust these enough to consume them, but I do use them for body products (why pay $8 for organic apple cider vinegar :roll: I prefer to make these) -- shampoo and hair conditioner, people bug repellent, etc. and for plant bug sprays, kitchen counter cleaning and dish washer rinse aid. 8)

One of these days, I'll make them with enough care that I can confidently put them in edibles. :wink:

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It's been a few years, but I needed to make room in my cupboard so I decided to check on the home made apple ciders and also screw up my courage and check on last year's and the year before's attempts which I felt had been iffy.

I have to say the apple cider that had been bottled to age in 2011 turned out lovely, and there was a beautiful blubbery mother in the bottle, too. I decanted the ACV to use in a 12 oz bottle.
image.jpg
(I think I'm eating this one :D )
I reserved about 1/2 cup of the vinegar, rinsed out the dregs and then rinsed the mother with the strained vinegar in the bottle, and then put her back in the cupboard to rest under enough of the filtered vinegar to submerge.

I also pulled out a 1/2 gallon jar of apple scraps that I had canned in 2012 by filling the preheated jar with hot boiled mixture (almost like applesauce) and screwing down the canning lid. The domed lid test showed it was still good, the slurry was still fresh pale unoxidized color, and when
I plied open the lid, it made that vacuum sucking sound.

I added the dregs from the decanted vinegar mixed with a tablespoon of maple syrup -- I had to use a second jar because now I had too much for just the 1/2 gallon jar. The mixture almost instantly turned brown... Then I retrieved a big piece of the rinsed mother and another snip (about 1 Tbs) and added them to the jars to inoculate. I tasted from the smaller jar and it already tastes a bit like vinegar (I may have added citric acid when I canned the scraps) and they both have a nice ciderly smell to them. They are now covered with paper towel lids, and I'll keep the smaller jar out where I can keep an eye on it. I may or may not need to add more sugar.
image.jpg

This is a bigger batch than I've ever made before, so I really hope they turn out well. We shall see.... 8)

These will be this year's attempt since the apple production was abysmal this year. (About a 1/2 dozen nice apples are on the Arkansas Black to harvest in the heat couple of weeks)


As for the "iffy" ones, the bottled to age liquid was dark and tasted off -- more like worstershire sauce than anything else, and the jar of scraps that I had forgotten to strain and bottle smelled musty (as in moldy) when I opened it though I didn't see any mold. So they are going in the compost pile.

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This is great!!!!



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