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Ch. 4 Archaea

So we are into the new territory here...

This chapter will likely need a good deal more discussion than those before for a number of reasons...

First of all this stuff is new, and I don't just mean to Jeff's book. This is a pretty new addition to biology, period, a whole kingdom we have overlooked for a really long time. The differences between bacteria and archaea are profound enough to warrant the new kingdom, but this is electron microscope work to tell the difference...

But it seems that archaea are even more responsible for decomposition than the bacteria are ( :!: ), particularly in newer soils where some are able to use sulfur and other mineralized compounds!

Brave new world here; who else is just getting an earful on a new topic besides me?

HG

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I don't have it in front of me, but I think archea are a whole new domain, not a kingdom. That is even more crazy!

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Correct as usual toil; it appears they are their own domain...

As a plant guy I NEVER have cause to work beyond kingdom usually, but it seems that you are more [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_classification]correct in assigning domain as a higher level category[/url]... as an American, anyway. Seems the Brits and Aussies are not entirely on board, not even assigning Archaea its own kingdom yet, still classifying it as Monera.

And if anyone had told me early I was going to be discussing Linnean nomenclature and systemics on a gardening website, I'd of payed more attention in science :roll:

The [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaea]wiki on archaea[/url]is fascinating and might be helpful in understanding all this better...

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Fascinating to discover there is a whole new domain/kingdom of life I never heard of (p53 they do refer to it as kingdom). Sounds like life on earth is pretty totally dependent on these guys -- make up a majority of plankton, important in carbon and nitrogen cycles, ubiquitously present in pretty much any environment you can name (volcanos, desert, ocean, soil). Makes sense to me that all life evolved from thermophilic bacteria/ archaea and that lower temps (what we call normal) is in fact the extreme case (per the wiki article), since the earth was quite hot back there in the beginning times.

But given that these guys can only be distinguished from bacteria by electron microscopy/ DNA studies and that the chapter ends by saying after this we will just use the generic "bacteria" to include bacteria/archaea, does it make any practical difference to me as a gardener to know about them? Is there anything I would do differently because I now know that my soil contains bacteria and archaea compared to what I would have done knowing that there are lots of bacteria and that they are important to the life of my plants?

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THAT's a good question, RBG. My knee jerk response is no, but I am still in the infant stages of learning about these myself, and there just isn't scads out there to glom onto about archaea yet.

As long as there are a couple million of some little buggers to do the nitrification thing, I don't think it matters which domain they are in. But it does make me think I don't need to worry about buying the unsulfured molasses so much anymore... :wink:

(My very fist archaea joke...har har...) :lol:

HG

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Good one HG.

This chapter really caught me off guard as well. It's amazing that these "bacteria" area ll round an in such numbers, yet we never noticed till just recently.

Even more amazing is their ability to live is such harsh climates and conditions.

Makes you wonder how much more we have no clue of.

When microscopes become even more powerful what shall we find than?

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So far there is a theoretical limit. In quantum physics, you can't observe something without changing it.

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Oh no you don't toil. This is complex enough without dragging quantum physics into it. I will beat you with [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat]Schrodinger's cat[/url] if you try that again... talk about OT...

:wink:

HG

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Well it does explain the limits of magnification.

Hmpf!

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Now toil, let's not be grumpy... :P

You can play in the multiverse on another aptly titled thread... :lol:

HG

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Lol.

So the bit I found the most interesting was about archeal influence over the greenhouse effect.

Rice paddies especially. Although next time someone has really bad gas, I'm going to call it "archaeic" instead of just saying it's gross.

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Yeah the methane generation is interesting, particularly now that we are seeing unheard of levels of methane in the Arctic, due to thawing permafrosts and ocean clathrates. Seems archaea are not just nitrogen regulators, but methane regulators as well.

And the fact they can pull off "photosynthesis" chemically without sunlight is just amazing as well (more the deep ocean types but the purple ones Jeff talklks about seem to be able to do it with sulfur as well). Who says there is no new science; we are getting front row seats... 8)

HG

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This was neat to learn about. I did not see where it was listed as making up the majority of plankton, as RBG said, but perhaps I missed that.

Towards the end of the chapter, it is said that they found the archaeic gene responsible for3000 times more prevalent than the bacterial one. Perhpas this is one of the reasons why some soils that seem highly anaerobic still seem to grow plants. Hmmmm, since they didn't say that this test was taken in totally anaerobic soil, could we assume that these are facultative anaerobes?

For that matter, if they are anaeobic, what happens to them when we try to make ACT with them?

Oh, and Toil, perhaps if we find a way to move faster than the speed of light, time will slow down and we won't smell the methane. I'm only teasing; I, too, find quantum/astro/theoretical physics interesting.

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We had simply been chalking all these activities up to bacteria (where we had been lumping this kingdom), so bacterial soils means archaeal soils as well. I suspect a good bit of what shows up in effective microbes (EM) falls into this realm, as well as those swampy soils you are alluding to (in fact just about anywhere that hydrogen sulfide smell rears it's head)

So I suspect toil is not too far off in "his he who smelt it is experiencing archaeal by-production of gasses" comment... :lol: I think the kingdom's in little need of oxygen and probably fits the bill of facultative anaerobe aptly... but that doesn't mean if we feed them they won't grow; just because we aerate doesn't mean we kill these guys any more than E.coli or the other FAs. It just means they won't become dominant cultures...

HG

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OK, so, just because it's an anaerobe, doesn't mean aeration will kill, it just won't favor the growth of it, right?

Thanks for clearing that up, HG.

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It will kill some, but not FACULTATIVE anaerobes, who are by definition, able to sustain (but not thrive) in air.

HG

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I get it, now. The Facultative anaerobes just grow at a much much slower rate than aerobic bacteria.

This chapter really backed up your point about researchers focusing on the science of the soil over the biology for a long time. They began making the switch and look what happened: an entire new kingdom (which has been right under our noses...literally) was discovered! It will be interesting to see what we learn about this new discovery over time.



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