Welcome to the new sub-forum about the revised edition of [url=https://tinyurl.com/teaming-with-microbes]Teaming with Microbes[/url]. This revised edition of the book will be released on February 15, 2010. Support your local bookstore and purchase a copy there or [url=https://tinyurl.com/teaming-with-microbes]buy it from Amazon[/url].
We will be discussing the book chapter by chapter but if a particular chapter inspires you to discuss something more specific then feel free to start a brand new discussion.
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webmaster
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Teaming with Microbes Revised Edition Pre-release Discussion
Last edited by webmaster on Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:54 am, edited 5 times in total.
I can't believe this will happen! This radical. I mean really radical. As in back to the roots. Before education was a formalized system, people would travel to cities and study with the person who has the sought after knowledge, in exchange for payment.
Our only profit here will be knowledge and community, but all the better! We will be learning for free in a way that usually costs so much.
I'd like to remind everyone that we are not just creating a discussion for the moment. We will be leaving behind a resource in the form of chapter by chapter discussions and questions valuable to the authors and the readers. This is the true meaning of education.
So please discipline yourselves and each other (and me) to stay focused on the chapters at hand, and ask general questions in the general thread. Otherwise you make silly work for whoever has to move it over.
If you aren't sure where your question goes, just ask it though. It's not a big deal as long as it doesn't become the status quo.
I can't wait!
Our only profit here will be knowledge and community, but all the better! We will be learning for free in a way that usually costs so much.
I'd like to remind everyone that we are not just creating a discussion for the moment. We will be leaving behind a resource in the form of chapter by chapter discussions and questions valuable to the authors and the readers. This is the true meaning of education.
So please discipline yourselves and each other (and me) to stay focused on the chapters at hand, and ask general questions in the general thread. Otherwise you make silly work for whoever has to move it over.
If you aren't sure where your question goes, just ask it though. It's not a big deal as long as it doesn't become the status quo.
I can't wait!
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rainbowgardener
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Can a mod change my status from cool member to book club chair pro tem? It will generate questions. Hopefully someone will want to take over.
My plan is to help structure this so HG can do his duty with ease, and to make myself superfluous. I don't like big commitment. Just big ideas
I've asked g5 to create a sig for club members if they wish to wear it.
My plan is to help structure this so HG can do his duty with ease, and to make myself superfluous. I don't like big commitment. Just big ideas
I've asked g5 to create a sig for club members if they wish to wear it.
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The Helpful Gardener
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Thanks for the enthusiasm from everyone. This is everything that toil said it is, and hopefully we can make it even more. Some quick thoughts...
I'd agree about posting discipline; while even yours truly can wander OOT (
Say it ain't so! 
) as we are trying to convey the thought and meaning of authors other than ourselves, we need to observe topic discipline. Given.
I feel we should keep things topical and of the moment, and while I, like many other bookies, like to balance two books (sometimes more) depending on my mood, it is not conducive to focus (studies have shown that while we have societally embraced "multi-tasking", it is not far removed from the same effects as ADHD). I like the focus of one at a time and that will concentrate not just thought, but participation to a single title. We can review that when this thing has crawled, then walked...
I will enquire about the the status change and like the sig idea, as well as the fact that you have dragged G5 in here (as the catalyst for this whole reaction, she should be included)
. Another tack to take would be to discuss this in your off-forum life (I hear some of you have those) with possibly interested parties; this is a good tool for new recruitment to the Forums and as noted, just a really great educational tool. People who understand the process (witness Jeff's own satori as he gazed at nematode trapping fungi) just understand that organics makes sense and the other way doesn't .
Feb 15th. Can't think of a better book to start with and I can't wait...
HG
I'd agree about posting discipline; while even yours truly can wander OOT (
Say it ain't so! ) as we are trying to convey the thought and meaning of authors other than ourselves, we need to observe topic discipline. Given.I feel we should keep things topical and of the moment, and while I, like many other bookies, like to balance two books (sometimes more) depending on my mood, it is not conducive to focus (studies have shown that while we have societally embraced "multi-tasking", it is not far removed from the same effects as ADHD). I like the focus of one at a time and that will concentrate not just thought, but participation to a single title. We can review that when this thing has crawled, then walked...
I will enquire about the the status change and like the sig idea, as well as the fact that you have dragged G5 in here (as the catalyst for this whole reaction, she should be included)
. Another tack to take would be to discuss this in your off-forum life (I hear some of you have those) with possibly interested parties; this is a good tool for new recruitment to the Forums and as noted, just a really great educational tool. People who understand the process (witness Jeff's own satori as he gazed at nematode trapping fungi) just understand that organics makes sense and the other way doesn't . Feb 15th. Can't think of a better book to start with and I can't wait...
HG
Well, here is the signature I thought up to promote the discussion. What do you think?
Would you like it to be more open/explanatory? I made it vague to hopefully incite some curiosity. The link leads to this forum. Should I tone down the colors (people have to notice it
) ?
Oh, and on a side note, I noticed some referring to me as a "she," I'm actually a guy
.
Would you like it to be more open/explanatory? I made it vague to hopefully incite some curiosity. The link leads to this forum. Should I tone down the colors (people have to notice it
) ? Oh, and on a side note, I noticed some referring to me as a "she," I'm actually a guy
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webmaster
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I created a signature, too. If you want to use it or modify it here is the code:
You're invited to visit our [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43]Gardening Book Club Forum[/url]. Read along as we discuss Teaming with Microbes, chapter by chapter.
[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21243][[img]https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YCJLLtuuL._SL500_SS75_.jpg[/img][/url]
G5 can you post your code? I want to rotate between these sigs for variety.
Nice work. I like all the color and the size. And I agree, mystery sells.
I am really baffled. My ideas are usually the ones people reject before having brilliant ones.
Sorry you got feminized. Gender doesn't read online. I did think you were a dude before though. But that is just my latent sexism. (working on it)
Nice work. I like all the color and the size. And I agree, mystery sells.
I am really baffled. My ideas are usually the ones people reject before having brilliant ones.
Sorry you got feminized. Gender doesn't read online. I did think you were a dude before though. But that is just my latent sexism. (working on it)
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rainbowgardener
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I think I will stick with Webmaster's version. G5's is just a little bit LOUD for my taste... but people WILL notice it, which was the idea! 
The gender issue is always interesting.... gender here in our virtual community is strictly a projection from the mind of the reader. I have frequently been called "he" here, even though I sort of thought rainbow-gardener was frou-frou and femmy enough to be at least a good hint. I think it's because I often give fairly authoritative answers with big vocabulary and science citations ... only men do that, right? (But see that "sort of" and "fairly" in there? Dead give away, women's language is always qualified, men don't usually do that, even when I'm being authoritative, I usually do put those femmy little qualifications in).
I was surprised when I read in HG's post "dragged G5 in here (as the catalyst for this whole reaction, she should be included)" and as I read it thought, "but I thought G5 was a guy." I expect HG was just being counterstereotypical -- since she (just kidding HG ) didn't know for sure, avoided just assuming male.
But I recently got caught in the opposite assumption. In correspondence assumed someone was female and turned out to be probably wrong. When I thought about it, I decided I assumed the poster was female because (she) is very smart and helpful and works with fruit (I don't understand the last part either, but it's in there).
But I once wrote a graduate paper (not on a gender related topic) all in the feminine pronouns, explaining that this is the generic feminine that is assumed to include the male. It was actually very enlightening!
_________________
You're invited to visit our [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21243]Gardening Book Club Forum[/url] Read along as we discuss Teaming with Microbes, chapter by chapter.
The gender issue is always interesting.... gender here in our virtual community is strictly a projection from the mind of the reader. I have frequently been called "he" here, even though I sort of thought rainbow-gardener was frou-frou and femmy enough to be at least a good hint. I think it's because I often give fairly authoritative answers with big vocabulary and science citations ... only men do that, right? (But see that "sort of" and "fairly" in there? Dead give away, women's language is always qualified, men don't usually do that, even when I'm being authoritative, I usually do put those femmy little qualifications in).
I was surprised when I read in HG's post "dragged G5 in here (as the catalyst for this whole reaction, she should be included)" and as I read it thought, "but I thought G5 was a guy." I expect HG was just being counterstereotypical -- since she (just kidding HG
) didn't know for sure, avoided just assuming male. But I recently got caught in the opposite assumption. In correspondence assumed someone was female and turned out to be probably wrong. When I thought about it, I decided I assumed the poster was female because (she) is very smart and helpful and works with fruit (I don't understand the last part either, but it's in there).
But I once wrote a graduate paper (not on a gender related topic) all in the feminine pronouns, explaining that this is the generic feminine that is assumed to include the male. It was actually very enlightening!
_________________
You're invited to visit our [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21243]Gardening Book Club Forum[/url] Read along as we discuss Teaming with Microbes, chapter by chapter.
I used to randomize gender in papers. Also interesting, and profs could not complain.
You know, to me rainbow means representing the gay community. So I assumed you were just an out gardener. But I work in a field where at least 50% of my colleagues are gay.
You mention the language of women. In a lot of ways, I think American men are becoming more feminine, and that is a good thing. We men need to be less dissonant and more resonant. I think HG is a great example of a resonant male leader. He has a kernel of femininity in his masculine language, and it makes it easy to be wrong around him. I now consciously submit to my wife, and I get better every day.
Unfortunately, women have to fight twice as hard to gain half as much acceptance. I cringe every time I hear the b word.
Wait a minute! We haven't even started and we are off topic! We need a gentle enforcer. We can practice on this thread maybe?
You know, to me rainbow means representing the gay community. So I assumed you were just an out gardener. But I work in a field where at least 50% of my colleagues are gay.
You mention the language of women. In a lot of ways, I think American men are becoming more feminine, and that is a good thing. We men need to be less dissonant and more resonant. I think HG is a great example of a resonant male leader. He has a kernel of femininity in his masculine language, and it makes it easy to be wrong around him. I now consciously submit to my wife, and I get better every day.
Unfortunately, women have to fight twice as hard to gain half as much acceptance. I cringe every time I hear the b word.
Wait a minute! We haven't even started and we are off topic! We need a gentle enforcer. We can practice on this thread maybe?
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gixxerific
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Glad you like it, Toil.
Here is the code:
There's something new [color=green][b]growing[/color][/b] in the Helpful Gardener Forum! [b][color=blue]Become a part of it[/color][/b] [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43]here![/url]
No problem about the gender thing, I guess my username really isn't that descriptive.
I think it will be good if some of us have a descriptive sig and others a curiosity-stimulating one.
I may change my sig, too from time to time.
EDIT: I fixed the code so it shows.
I hope this code posts right.
Here is the code:
There's something new [color=green][b]growing[/color][/b] in the Helpful Gardener Forum! [b][color=blue]Become a part of it[/color][/b] [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43]here![/url]
No problem about the gender thing, I guess my username really isn't that descriptive.
I think it will be good if some of us have a descriptive sig and others a curiosity-stimulating one.
I may change my sig, too from time to time.
EDIT: I fixed the code so it shows.
I hope this code posts right.
Last edited by garden5 on Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Helpful Gardener
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I am indeed sorry about genderbending, G5, and interesting takes on gender assignment. I think the non-specificity of the net and our need to assign personality or intellect to sexual context is often misleading. And mine is perhaps in need of tweaking 
. But really G5, coming from me you should probably take it as compliment. Feminine side aside (thanks toil, I think), I like women way more than guys most of the time 
Consider it as much validation of your resonant qualities as an affirmation of my expanding world view. Or an shining example of what a dork I am... likely all of the above...
Roger, thank you for your work; I will certainly make use of the signatures. Pondering which one... mystery goes with viral marketing... I'm thinking...
Back to topic, I hope?
HG
P.S. Went with the direct approach. Subtle ain't a word folks use around me much anyway...
. But really G5, coming from me you should probably take it as compliment. Feminine side aside (thanks toil, I think), I like women way more than guys most of the time Consider it as much validation of your resonant qualities as an affirmation of my expanding world view. Or an shining example of what a dork I am... likely all of the above... Roger, thank you for your work; I will certainly make use of the signatures. Pondering which one... mystery goes with viral marketing... I'm thinking...
Back to topic, I hope?
HG
P.S. Went with the direct approach. Subtle ain't a word folks use around me much anyway...
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gixxerific
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gixxerific
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Gardenerjeff
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Thanks for choosing Teaming With Microbes/ by Jeff Lowenfel
Hi Folks,
Thanks for choosing this book as a book club forum topic! I am thrilled and I will be here "reading" along with you all! Teaming has had a great reception and I am particularly pleased about the revised titled for the 2nd edition. When I submitted the book to Timber, they were not sure if it was a good one (meaning the information and suggestions would work) or if the information in it would ever become mainstream...hence the subtitle "A Gardener's guide to the soil food web." I was the "A Gardener'.....the second edition is subbed "THE ORGANIC GARDENER's Guide to the soil food web" which is a reflection by the publisher that, indeed, the information was correct, the system works, and it is a book for the mainstream gardener and not just me!!!!!!! Vindicated!
Anyhow, I lecture around the country and hope to meet some of you in person. The idea that plants are in control of their destiny and not gardeners in control is a lot of fun to explain. Seeing the concept hit people is always rewarding.
The first two chapters can be a bit difficult for some. I keep the science as light as possible, but you really have to get through them before the fun begins, so don't despair....soil is the stage for the book's characters and knowing something about how it works is key to understanding their roles, so hang in there and you will be teaming with your own soil's microbes in no time.
We actually got our hands on a case of the books for the Northwest Flower and Garden Show and they look great. Love the new cover and title....hope you do too! They should have some copies at this weekend's Portland Yard and Garden Show.....I'll be there and hope to meet some of you there!
Teaming with microbes,
Jeff Lowenfels
Thanks for choosing this book as a book club forum topic! I am thrilled and I will be here "reading" along with you all! Teaming has had a great reception and I am particularly pleased about the revised titled for the 2nd edition. When I submitted the book to Timber, they were not sure if it was a good one (meaning the information and suggestions would work) or if the information in it would ever become mainstream...hence the subtitle "A Gardener's guide to the soil food web." I was the "A Gardener'.....the second edition is subbed "THE ORGANIC GARDENER's Guide to the soil food web" which is a reflection by the publisher that, indeed, the information was correct, the system works, and it is a book for the mainstream gardener and not just me!!!!!!! Vindicated!
Anyhow, I lecture around the country and hope to meet some of you in person. The idea that plants are in control of their destiny and not gardeners in control is a lot of fun to explain. Seeing the concept hit people is always rewarding.
The first two chapters can be a bit difficult for some. I keep the science as light as possible, but you really have to get through them before the fun begins, so don't despair....soil is the stage for the book's characters and knowing something about how it works is key to understanding their roles, so hang in there and you will be teaming with your own soil's microbes in no time.
We actually got our hands on a case of the books for the Northwest Flower and Garden Show and they look great. Love the new cover and title....hope you do too! They should have some copies at this weekend's Portland Yard and Garden Show.....I'll be there and hope to meet some of you there!
Teaming with microbes,
Jeff Lowenfels
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The Helpful Gardener
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Jeff, we are honored and pleased beyond words to have you joining us for this discussion. While we are all still waiting for books (anything you can do about that? ) we have been biding the time with discussion elsewhere about a lot of the topics I expect to see in those first few chapters, so don't be surprised to find out these guys have a pretty good grasp of the basics already. But the actual reading will be even more exciting knowing we get to mull it all over with you afterwords.
All you luckies attending the Portland Show be sure to stop and see Jeff and tell him you saw it here first...
HG
) we have been biding the time with discussion elsewhere about a lot of the topics I expect to see in those first few chapters, so don't be surprised to find out these guys have a pretty good grasp of the basics already. But the actual reading will be even more exciting knowing we get to mull it all over with you afterwords.All you luckies attending the Portland Show be sure to stop and see Jeff and tell him you saw it here first...
HG
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gixxerific
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gixxerific
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Uh Oh! I just recived this from Amazon:
Dono
I suppose we will have to postpone just a bit, anyone else getting this message?Unfortunately, the release date for the item(s) listed below has changed, and we need to provide you with a new delivery estimate based on the new release date:
Jeff Lowenfels, Wayne Lewis "Teaming with Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web, Revised Edition"
Estimated arrival date: March 01 2010 - March 03 2010
Dono
doh! I just got:
Unfortunately, the release date for the item(s) listed below has changed, and we need to provide you with a new delivery estimate based on the new release date:
Wayne Lewis, Jeff Lowenfels "Teaming with Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web, Revised Edition"
Estimated arrival date: March 08 2010 - March 12 2010
We apologize for the inconvenience caused by this delay.
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The Helpful Gardener
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Wow, thanks, Jeff, for acknowledging the discussion. The man who wrote the book, that gave the insights, that prompted the discussion, has now joined the discussion! It's like the discussion has come full-circle and is hasn't even started yet ! Very cool .
I do hope, Jeff, that you will stop in from time to time (I can't even imagine how crazy your schedule is) and lend some of your insights to whatever subjects we may be discussing at the moment.
HG, I came up with another promotional idea for the thread. Now, it may sound a little spammy, so if you don't pick it up, I won't object at all.
What if you or Roger where to send each member a one-time PM notifying them of the addition to this site and what it is all about and how to join in. I don't how hard or easy it would be to send a "mass submit" to all members.
Honestly, though, I think that it would be well-received. After all, when you join any type of organization, you always get newsletters telling of any changes or special events. Ours will be even better since we won't ask for a donation at the end.
What do you think?
! Very cool .I do hope, Jeff, that you will stop in from time to time (I can't even imagine how crazy your schedule is
) and lend some of your insights to whatever subjects we may be discussing at the moment. HG, I came up with another promotional idea for the thread. Now, it may sound a little spammy, so if you don't pick it up, I won't object at all.
What if you or Roger where to send each member a one-time PM notifying them of the addition to this site and what it is all about and how to join in. I don't how hard or easy it would be to send a "mass submit" to all members.
Honestly, though, I think that it would be well-received. After all, when you join any type of organization, you always get newsletters telling of any changes or special events. Ours will be even better since we won't ask for a donation at the end
. What do you think?
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The Helpful Gardener
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gixxerific
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G5 I thought about that too a while ago. But as HG said advertising in our sigs is enough. For those truly interested they will come.
I thought about adding my sig to my sig on another forum, but first off I didn't think it would be taken well over here. Even though they need an education, trust me on this, but it could bring people over that really don't belong in a venture like this and might cause more problems than is solves. Sad to say but it's true.
Now where's my book?
I thought about adding my sig to my sig on another forum, but first off I didn't think it would be taken well over here. Even though they need an education, trust me on this, but it could bring people over that really don't belong in a venture like this and might cause more problems than is solves. Sad to say but it's true.
Now where's my book?
I like your position, HG. It's this member-oriented atmosphere and strict adherence to it that makes this site the best I've ever been on. I guess if you started with this, where would it end. You have a precedent here, and you are sticking to it; that's great.
Also, like you said, build it and they will come. I actually found this site and other forums I really like by Googling and stumbling across pertinent discussions.
Gix, I hear you. I've lurked in a few different forums and have seen some of the poor attitudes (although, I can't say all the members are like this) and would not want to bring any of those attitudes to this place, either. I agree that what we are doing will probably put the word out to all who want to hear.
Start it and they will follow.
Also, like you said, build it and they will come. I actually found this site and other forums I really like by Googling and stumbling across pertinent discussions.
Gix, I hear you. I've lurked in a few different forums and have seen some of the poor attitudes (although, I can't say all the members are like this) and would not want to bring any of those attitudes to this place, either. I agree that what we are doing will probably put the word out to all who want to hear.
Start it and they will follow.
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The Helpful Gardener
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gixxerific
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I believe we have been discussing it all along, throughout the forum.
Last edited by gixxerific on Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Helpful Gardener
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I think that's right. We needn't stand on decorum (for that matter when have we ever? ) If you get the book, and want to talk it up, you may need to hold some hands to get to your point, but we are pretty smart folk and will catch up when we get them...
I'm sure Jeff will clarify anything we screw up too badly.
S
) If you get the book, and want to talk it up, you may need to hold some hands to get to your point, but we are pretty smart folk and will catch up when we get them...I'm sure Jeff will clarify anything we screw up too badly.
S
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