Xandi
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Is deep water culture the simplest method for a beginner?

Dear all,
my question is simple (for you experts out there).
I never did hydroponics before, but I am very motivated to learn how to cultivate lettuce hydroponically (I eat tons of salad).
I read websites, forums, books, but there are various systems (NDT, DWC, Aeroponics, Drips, etc.) and I am a bit lost.

Before I waste hundreds of pounds (incredible how much some kits cost! :shock: ), my question is:

What would be the ideal system to begin with for a beginner?

My opinion at the moment is the Deep Water Cultivation, since:
- it seems simple enough to set up and control
- it does not seem expensive
- it seems more robust toward beginner's errors

The only thing is that probably is not the best for lettuce?

Thanks for your advice - looking forward to seeing my first lettuces :-()

SQWIB
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Kratky for lettuce in my novice opinion

Xandi
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Thanks, SQWIB. Is there a quick guide on how to build/assemble one?
Have you built your own or bought it? Maybe you can share a photo?

pepperhead212
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Welcome to the forum!

I like the deepwater - that Kratky method, while I've never tried it, seems like trying to keep fish in a stagnant aquarium - just doesn't seem right to me!

I make my own setups, mainly for herbs and greens in the off-season. I'll look for more photos later on my PC - much easier than fooling around on these small devices! lol Here's one photo of some lettuce I had producing in Feb, after planting in early November. You can also see the mizuna and bok choy - two other cut and come again plants, like all of the herbs I grow - basil, Thai basil, parsley, dill, epazote, mint, and new this last year, some Syrian oregano. These things have to be cut frequently, even when not used, or they will over-run the place! This one with 5 inserts - two lettuce, two bok choy, and a 5" cluster of mizuna in the center, is 12 gal.
ImageBlack seeded Simpson, still producing. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

I make the deepwater set-ups with an aquarium powerhead, with a sponge attached to it - something I've had a lot of on hand, from fish keeping. I put that, and an airstone on the floor of the tub, and this keeps it well aerated, and the sponge sets up a sort of biological filter, and in the 6 months or so I have them running, before I clean them out, because I'm harvesting from outside, I never really have to change the water, and clean it out - just refill!

I'll take some photos of the storage tubs and inserts I've made. Some were of scrap plexiglass, and one was of styrofoam - a floating insert, which might be easier to make (the others were made with my bandsaw, drill press, and holesaws). The plexiglass I spray painted with a white paint, and it lasts a couple years, then needs re-painted some.

I keep these - a 27 gal and a 12 gal - under 2 T8 and 2 T5 bulbs, for lighting, which is ok for herbs and greens.

Xandi
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Thanks a lot Dave! Your greens look amazing on that photo, I'm looking forward to the day when I can have something similar.

Few questions (keep in mind it is always lettuce the thing I would like to cultivate):
1) Seedlings: do you use a starter cube? Is a rockwool propagation block? And then you put it in a self-watering propagator tray? Do you put the same nutrient solution in the tray as in the DWC system?
I read you need for at least 4 leafs to form, and then you take the block with the little plant and put it in the growing medium in the 3 inch net basket, right?

2) Which growing medium do you recommend for lettuce? I read that vermiculite is a good one, but is not vermiculite going to fall through the hole in the net basket?

3) Temperature: I read that there is an optimum temperature for the day (when there is light) and one for the night. Which temperature do you recommend for lettuce? My intention is to put everything in the garage, and control the temperature (if necessary) with a tubular heater (it's cold here in Glasgow...no need to cool down!)

4) Light: I would like to invest into a LED one...there are some fancy and some very expensive, but it seems that they are quite good at giving the right light wavelengths. Do you recommend T5 and T8? I thought you need some special "growing lights".

I have other questions, but better to go through these little by little.

Thanks a million, and again my compliments for the nice greens you cultivate - they look healthy and delicious!

SQWIB
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Location: Zone 7A - Philadelphia, PA

I'll post tomorrow with some pics. I'm on my phone now.
The beauty of Kratky is you mix the solution in like a coffee container, put a net cup in the lid, put the lid on, put in some media, add your start.

The plant will take up the water and as the water decreases the roots get air.
By the time the plant is ready for harvesting, the solution is almost done, rinse, repeat.
You can move the containers around, no mechanical things to worry about, it's so easy a caveman can do it... Sorry couldn't resist.
I built a few systems.
Like I said, I'll post a bunch of stuff tomorrow

Xandi
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Thanks, SQWIB - looking forward to see your photos!

pepperhead212
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Location: Woodbury NJ Zone 7a/7b

Back on my PC now, xandi!

Here is the album of hydro photos for this season:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/91097628@ ... 807384851/

Here is the 27 gal tub, with that powerhead, sponge, and airstone, I mentioned:
Image27 gal tub, with powerhead filter and airstone. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

And here's the insert for that tub. You can see the intricate cuttings needed, which I used the lid as a tracer for. I also insert a SS threaded rod through the narrow middle part, to prevent bowing. I can't show you now, because it's taken apart, but I also put pieces of wood on all four sides, then one of those long, nylon web clamps, to prevent bowing in the sides.
Image27 gal tub, with insert by pepperhead212, on Flickr

And here's the smaller tub, with the styrofoam, floater insert. And this shows (though you can't see all of it!) how I start the seeds - I put the clay pebbles in the baskets, leaving about 1" at the top, then put some fabric mesh in it, which I get at the local craft/fabric store. Then I press in some re-hydrated coarse coir, level with the top, then cut off the excess mesh. And you can see what I mean about the styrofoam being easier to make! To cut those holes, all you need is a cheap, electric needle like tool, that cuts right through the stuff! You jsut have to make sure you don't go too far!
Imagegreens, started around 11-15 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

And that small hole you see in the inserts is both for filling, plus a really good tool I Invested in, to tell how much of the nutrients are in the water - a conductivity meter. Of course, it can't tell you the percentages of everything - just a general number, but it helps when setting them up, and once the plants get larger, though you'll be surprised at how little nutrients you actually have to add. That myth about having to drain half of the water, and replace it is something the industry started, so we would have to buy more nutrients! The nutrients I use are all for greens - Maxigro, and Foliage Pro 9-3-6. (Not sure what you have access to over there) I've had a gallon of the latter, and 2.2 lbs of the Maxigro for many years, with a bunch still in the containers, and I use these for fertilizing my seedlings, as well. I don't grow anything in hydro that I want to bloom! I've gotten some other brands, when a place was going out of business, but did not like them. They were two part nutrients, and when I mixed them in a bottle, it precipitated! So what happens in the tub, I wonder? This makes me suspicious of those two part things from now on.

SQWIB
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:21 am
Location: Zone 7A - Philadelphia, PA

As pepperhead, back on a PC, you can only do so much on a phone with limited patience.
Here are links to my Hydroponic Setups

Kratky Grow Bed
NFT Build
Kratky Lettuce
NFT Rail System
Deep Water Culture System "

For my Fertilizer (Nutes) I used Bobbies formula, I also added about 1/4 ounce of vinegar to drop the ph to around 6- 6.5
N P K
Nute Mix per 5 gallons for tomatoes (20-18-38)

12 grams Calcium Nitrate Fertilizer 15.5-0-0 better price here Biotech
12 grams Hydroponic Tomato Fertilizer 4-18-38 better price here Biotech
6 grams epsom salts Magnesium Sulphate

(N) Nitrogen (P) Phosphorus (K) potassium


Here is my "URDWC"





For lettuce I strongly Suggest this method...

May 5th, 2015
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May 18th, 2015
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May 19th, 2015
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May 21st, 2015
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May 25th 2015

I harvested one of each but it was too soon the lettuce was very wilted in the refrigerator, however I ate some today and it was OK. I dumped the remaining 1" of solution into the other two containers and will give it another 10 days or so. The red kale hasn't been too thirsty, there's still a lot of nutes in there.

These were purchased the beginning of May and planted the week before mothers day.
I figure 5- 6 weeks should be OK, However I'm not sure if the nutes will last that long in hotter weather, I'm gonna try 1-1/5 gallon buckets next year.


May 27th 2015
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Yesterday when I got home the lettuce was bone dry, I added a bit of pond water because I wasn't up to mixing any nutes, the next day I added some nutes from my DWC system as that was being upgraded. These guys are really drinking a lot the last few days and I have been careful just adding a few inches of water at a time.
I will definitely be upgrading this to 1.5 gallon containers and 3" net pots.


May 28th, 2015
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Roots are getting a tad dirty, time to harvest these soon.
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This head was almost completely flat yesterday.
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The Red Romaine is really looking good.
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The Russian Red Kale is hanging is doing well, this plant drinks very slowly, the other two you really have to be on top of.
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May 29th, 2015
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These Lettuce plant were purchased grown already, I tried planting seeds with no success,

I would call this a total success but needs tweaking.

I have been so impressed with how the lettuce done in these kratky containers, with the exception of the containers being too small resulting in the nutes lasting less than three weeks I decided to remedy that problem I ordered 2 gallon buckets, this will more than triple the volume of nutes, this way during cooler weather I can just keep harvesting the outer leaves.

Another problem was the lettuce was top heavy and kept falling over and the net pot pulling out, I will use 3" net pots and glue the net pots in.

Today I put out two new containers with nute solution, I'm trying to germinate 4 Black Seeded Simpson right in the planter with grow stones... keep your finger crossed.

Here's my newer setup, I am working on if the Black Seeded Simpson germinate.

2 gallon buckets and lids
3" Net Pots
Nutes (see above)
Hydroton / Grow Rocks
Spinach/Lettuce seeds.


June 13th, 2015

One of the 4 Black Seeded Simpsons took, the rest did not make it.



June 17th, 2015

It's a bit warm for lettuce, but since I only had one Black Seeded Simpson make it, I decided to plant some seeds on the hill and will give this another shot.


June 22nd, 2015

I transplanted the seedlings into four of the new 2 gallon pots, this area is shaded from around 2pm on. I should probably put these on foam and cover the containers with reflectix. This test was aborted.
Image




Kratky 10 Gallon Totes 2016

February 13th, 2016 - I decided to make two new Kratky Lettuce containers with five 2" net pots, I'll use these two totes alongside the six 2 gallon Kratky Buckets. $15.00 and 15 minutes.
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Kratky Lettuce 2016

May 4th, 2016 - Had to place my Kratky lettuce under the eaves of the garage, they were drowning with the 10 straight days of rain we had. The lip of the lid catches the rain so I'm going to have to work on that.
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May 11th, 2016 -
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May 20th, 2016 -
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May 30th, 2016 - Brought the lettuce in due to the heat, lettuce is good, there is no bitter taste and no milky excretions when cut.
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It will sit in the Kratky containers until we are finished eating it.
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SQWIB
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Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:21 am
Location: Zone 7A - Philadelphia, PA

Kratky Bed
I abandoned this after a short season of messing around with, one problem with a setup like this is you need to watch rain water getting in.
You could also do a float system where the foam floats on the solution and drops as the water is utilized.

Kratky Grow Bed


This is an old slide out storage container that was in the front of my RV that was never used. I sealed up the ends with pond liner and Dow Coring 732 silicone to make a Kratky Grow Bed.

I think its 16" wide by 80" long, it's small so it doesn't overpower the yard.

I had to lower the PH a smidgen by adding a 1/4 ounce of white vinegar per 5 gallons of water, PH was at 7.5, lowered to around 6.




For my Fertilizer (Nutes) I used Bobbies formula, I also added about 1/4 ounce of vinegar to drop the ph to around 6- 6.5

N P K
Nute Mix per 5 gallons for Grow Bed (20-18-38)

12 grams Calcium Nitrate Fertilizer 15.5-0-0
12 grams Hydroponic Tomato Fertilizer 4-18-38
6 grams epsom salts Magnesium Sulphate

(N) Nitrogen (P) Phosphorus (K) potassium
Image


May 18th, 2015
Red Russian Kale, Romaine and ??? The iceberg and spinach is from seed and not looking good.
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L-R Sugar Snap Peas, Habaneros and Poblanos?
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June 13th, 2015 - The Kratky bed actually ended up being a nursery for clones and cuttings.
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I took one of the pepper plants and transplanted to the DWC system, The roots were so huge and intertwined in the 2" netpot that I decided to leave the net pot intact when placing in the 6" net pot
Image


I retired the Kratky Grow Bed for the rest of the season, It worked well as a nursery but takes up a good bit of the yard for what it does. I used this are for an Air Pruning system. for the 2016 growing season.

SQWIB
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Location: Zone 7A - Philadelphia, PA

The deep water culture works well for Tomatoes, Peppers and Eggplants but you need to watch the heat, when it starts getting up into the 90's and above for any length of time the plants stop taking up nutrients and become stressed. This was one of the reasons I stopped doing Hydroponics, my stress level along with the plants was too high when temps went over 90°F

Here is my "URDWC"



June 22th, 2015

Everything is coming along nicely, I however am concerned with the temp spiking to 94° tomorrow since its been in the low 90's the last few days, we will see what happens. I planned on adding nutes to the reservoir but will hold off until later this week as we are expected to get a good bit of rain again.
Image

June 24th, 2015

June 16th, 90° - 70°
June 17th, 82° - 68°
June 18th, 71° - 64°
June 19th, 88° - 69°
June 20th, 82° - 69°
June 21st, 91° - 73°
June 22nd, 90° - 73°
June 23rd, 93° - 73°
June 24th, 84° - 66°

The last three day have been pretty hot 91-93°, although the evenings have been in the low seventies, the plants do not seem stressed, we had a storm come through yesterday that dropped a bit of rain so I decided to add nutes for 10 gallons this morning, I figured with all the rain we have had the last few weeks, that the nutrients may be diluted a bit.

For my Fertilizer (Nutes) I used Bobbies formula.
N P K
Nute Mix for 10 gallons (20-18-38)

24 grams Calcium Nitrate Fertilizer 15.5-0-0
24 grams Hydroponic Tomato Fertilizer 4-18-38
12 grams epsom salts Magnesium Sulphate

(N) Nitrogen (P) Phosphorus (K) potassium


June 26th, 2015

June 25th, 84° - 64°
June 26th, 74° - 66°
Yesterday I was working on my NFT Build and noticed my eggplant was wilting like crazy, I checked the temp solution and it was cool and the roots looked good.
I took a few cups of water from the reservoir and poured over the hydroton.
The only change I made to the system was I added an air-stone to the reservoir and added nutes the day before. This eggplant is the first in line from the reservoir. I did notice the water was about an inch lower than it has been, its actually where it should be now but was higher the last few weeks due to all the rain.

Nutes
Colder water
Water too low
Airstone?

I'm guessing it was the added nutrients, it did perk up about an hour later after pouring solution over the hydroton.

I also noticed some of the leaves on a few other plants are looking a lime green color


June 29th, 2015

June 27th, 71° - 63°
June 28th, 79° - 64°
June 29th, xx° - 61°


The Eggplant is still drooping during the day, but it's the only plant in the system that is drooping, I removed a few of the lower leaves as they did not look healthy.
Image

July 13th, 2015

June 30th, 86° - 64°
July 1st, 86° - 69°
July 2nd, 77° - 64°
July 3rd, 82° - 64°
July 4th, 75° - 68°
July 5th, 86° - 64°
July 6th, 87° - 71°
July 7th, 90° - 75°
July 8th, 89° - 75°
July 9th, 84° - 72°
July 10th, 86° - 72°
July 11th, 88° - 71°
July 12th, 89° - 66°
July 13th, 89° - 75°


I had a lot of concerns (and still do) about this DWC system when I started it eight weeks ago.
Things like... do I need to change the nutes, if so how often, do I need to replace nutes and if so how often, will the solution get too hot, will the PH be a problem and a million other concerns.
So far I could not be happier with the performance of this 12 bucket system, its been very easy to maintain and "knock wood" no real problems yet, however the next 8 weeks or so will most likely be the hottest and that has me concerned.
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This tomato plant has me the most impressed, I have been training it to grow more "vinelike" and trimming along the way, it seems to have paid off.
Image

pepperhead212
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Location: Woodbury NJ Zone 7a/7b

Nice setup, Squibb! Heat can be the #1 problem in outdoor setups. I don't do hydroponics, but a lot of sub irrigated planters, and these produce incredible numbers of tomatoes, eggplants, okra, and peppers, but the tomatoes and eggplants dropped their blossoms because of that intense heat in July. Unfortunately, my best heat reststant EP - Hari - did not germinate this year, so I HAVE to get more seeds! However, okra, and especially the peppers, loved the heat! And some mild peppers, of which I had to totally cover, and isolate the SIPs with a thin Agribon (due to pepper maggots), got even larger - like a small greenhouse, a few degrees warmer! Only these cool nights have slowed down the peppers and okra, but a lot of new fruits and blossoms on the tomatoes and eggplants. I started some lettuce, but not sure if it's cool enough for them.

Too early to set up the indoor, but very soon seeds for outside, then some cuttings for the indoor setup. Time flies - that will be here in no time!

SQWIB
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Yeah, the hydroponics was fun to dabble. It wasn't a lot of work but it was a lot more worrying and monitoring with temps, air circulation, nutes, rain, etc... Just became too stressful.
I still dabble with my Aquaponics with Peppers and eggplants.

Xandi
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Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:10 pm

Wow :shock: , I'm really impressed and grateful for the trove of info and images you shared...there is a lot of food for thought for me.
I think now it is time to think about my own system, and then share it with you all to have some feedback.

I have slightly different constraints living near Glasgow in Scotland: lower temperatures and fewer sunny hours, so I'm going for a little different one - with artificial light and a heater. :idea:

OVERALL STRUCTURE

1) A small vertical greenhouse able to host led light, a propagator, a simple water culture with air pump, and a heater.
This will be put in my garage, since I have easy access to water and electricity, and temperature there is a bit less extreme.

2) An 80W Low Energy Tubular Heater 2ft Tube with Built in Thermostat with Mounting Brackets - switched on only when it becomes too cold

3) LED light. Read tons about this, 100 different opinions, but I think I’m going for a red and blue 75W one. :?:

4) a) pH meter, b) Turkey baster c) pH up+down+buffer

5) SEEDLING:
a) A 24 Cell Self-Watering Propagator, Black, 38x17x26 cm
b) Starter cubes: Growth Technology Root Riot (Bag of 100) Loose (I tried to find the oasis horticubes in the UK, but can't find them. Plus, I do not like the idea of rockwool powder going into my lungs...)
c) Lettuce seeds: tom thumb, seems very hydroponically-friendly and easy to cultivate
d) Hydroponic nutrient: Formulex 1L

I stop here for the time being.
The most obscure point for me is the nutrient for the seedling.
In the UK I cannot find all the products you mention (in eBay international. I could buy them, but the posting costs are prohibitive…)
So I found this Formulex - I wonder if there is someone from the UK able to suggest me an alternative.

Just for clarification (and maybe for someone else like me that is just starting), I put down the links to the products I intend to buy, corresponding to the number ing above:

1) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071JFCTD5/ ... _lig_dp_it

2) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... 9O28&psc=1
3) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... 6E2I&psc=1

4)a) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... ZS5R&psc=1
4)b) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... 1OLE&psc=1
4)c) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... RRPL&psc=1

5)a) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... CK6K&psc=1
5)b) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... 0JCY&psc=1
5)c) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... 1OLE&psc=1
5)d) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... 1OLE&psc=1

SQWIB
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Location: Zone 7A - Philadelphia, PA

For lettuces you could use vinyl fence post and do an NFT (Nutrient Film Technique), this really is a space saver.
You can do it as an ebb and flow, continuous feed or use drip lines.


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Just watch the roots.
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Xandi
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:10 pm

Thanks, SQWIB.
These are very clear diagrams - did you find them in a book or a website?

By the way, any good book on hydroponics to suggest to a rookie?

Thanks a lot

Xandi

SQWIB
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Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:21 am
Location: Zone 7A - Philadelphia, PA

Xandi wrote:Thanks, SQWIB.
These are very clear diagrams - did you find them in a book or a website?

By the way, any good book on hydroponics to suggest to a rookie?

Thanks a lot

Xandi
Sorry I missed this.
All I can say is that Google is your friend.

imafan26
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

I have done Kratky, dutch buckets, rails, and aquaculture using rafts and cinder media.
Kratky is the easiest for a beginner to set up and it does not require a pump or daily maintenance. If you are growing a short crop like lettuce you only have to mix the solution once as long as you pick the recipe for lettuce.

You can do Kratky in a tub instead of individual bottles and it resembles a deep water system in that it does have a reservoir and a raft. It usually does better with an aerator but does not necessarily need a pump.

For rails, dutch buckets, ebb and flow systems, wick, NFT, and aeroponics using biofilters, rockwool, cinder, or rafts, you will have a larger investment in reservoirs, pumps, CEC meters, testing equipment and you will need to treat it much like a swimming pool and test the system frequently and adjust the pH and add nutrients. If you grow one kind of plant like lettuce it is easier than if you grow a variety of plants since plants will take up different nutrients at different rates depending on their stage of growth and individual demands. Usually the seedling will need to be grown in plugs and then moved into these systems and they still need to be sanitized afterwards or the build up of bacteria and fungi in the systems will start to kill the plants. BTW slugs do find their way into the systems and they are very hard to get rid of.



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