Thought about Hydro for a few years...think it's time to give it a try. Saw a video about using a tote, Dixie cups, air pump and growing rocks so I figured I'd give it a try. Want to try some Veggies. Lettuce, Celery and Peppers are my first choices. I have an old 150watt HPS fixture and have started building it.
Two problems so far. The tote has expanded so the lid won't fit. Going to try a hold-down strap to squeeze the tote. The drain valve I installed is leaking. I guess the washers on each side weren't enough to seal it.
No-one said it was going to be easy!
Ed
Hydroponic newbie... Not for Long!
- Attachments
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- The leaking Valve
- 2-19-2017 028.JPG (76.99 KiB) Viewed 12565 times
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- The Tote Filled
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- The Top with Cups
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- Bubbles....2 air stone bars
- 2-19-2017 026.JPG (67.64 KiB) Viewed 12565 times
A small horse trough works a little better since it has thicker walls. You can also use less water in the tote to reduce the load. cut a piece of styrofoam that is 1-2 inches thick. We glued two sheets together with a non toxic glue. Used a hole saw to drill holes in the board and trimmed the board to float on the water. We used net pots and only the bottom 1/3 of the net pot was actually in contact with the water. The air roots stayed above.
In a raft system you want it to float so when the water level changes, the roots stay moist. Otherwise you will need to constantly monitor the evaporation in your system. The nutrient solution concentration is also going to change with evaporation and depending on the type of plant and solution you use. You will have to test and adjust or change the solution weekly.
It looks like a good start. You are very ambitious. I have enough trouble keeping plants alive outdoors.
In a raft system you want it to float so when the water level changes, the roots stay moist. Otherwise you will need to constantly monitor the evaporation in your system. The nutrient solution concentration is also going to change with evaporation and depending on the type of plant and solution you use. You will have to test and adjust or change the solution weekly.
It looks like a good start. You are very ambitious. I have enough trouble keeping plants alive outdoors.
"A small horse trough works a little better since it has thicker walls."
A local term or do you mean it literally?
"cut a piece of styrofoam that is 1-2 inches thick"
Wouldn't the weight of the plants and rocks cause it to sink?
" used net pots and only the bottom 1/3 of the net pot was actually in contact with the water. The air roots stayed above."
Won't the grow rocks wick the water up?
I guess it's not as easy as it appears on paper.
Ed
You don't learn if you don't ask.
A local term or do you mean it literally?
"cut a piece of styrofoam that is 1-2 inches thick"
Wouldn't the weight of the plants and rocks cause it to sink?
" used net pots and only the bottom 1/3 of the net pot was actually in contact with the water. The air roots stayed above."
Won't the grow rocks wick the water up?
I guess it's not as easy as it appears on paper.
Ed
You don't learn if you don't ask.
I do mean a small trough that is used to water animals. It is designed to have water in them and they are good for above ground ponds and water lily gardens as well. I used this small one for my dog. I had a kiddie pool but his nails poked holes in the thin plastic, so we went shopping for a new pool for him. This one allowed him to sort of sit in but not really swim, but the next bigger sized tank would have been impossible for me to empty. A gallon of water weighs 8 pounds so this tank of water weighs about 320 lbs if it is full plus the weight of the tank. You have to make sure your support can handle the weight of the water and the plants as they grow.
https://www.agrisupply.com/oval-tank/p/54747/
Styrofoam floats. It is the core material in most boogie boards. It also does not rot or decay. Although if you bang it pieces can chip off. Most commercial raft hydro systems use styrofoam for the rafts.
Holes are drilled for the net pots. and it allows the roots to grow long and unimpeded. You have to have deep roots to get good plants.
For the net pots we did not use media. The media breaks down and gets into the tank and clogs the filter.
We used oasis root cubes to start the seeds. One seed per cube. The cubes were on a tray that had water from the hydro system constantly running under the cubes. We had a grow area inside the hothouse. When the seedlings had about 4 true leaves we transplanted them out to the raft, rail, and aeroponic systems. We did use sunshine #4 and 1 inch seed tray cells to make seedlings to grow out for the hydroton and cinder beds. When you break off the cube they have to be flat otherwise the seedling won't stand up right in the pot.
https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prod ... grow-media
The grow rocks would wick the water up. The problem would be if the fine particles of media get in the tank,then it messes up when they get stuck in the pump.
Our system had aerators but the water was moved from the underground storage tank and pumped up to the grow beds, rails or aero tower and they gravity fed back down to the main tank. The tank was mostly buried underground to try to keep the water cool especially in summer. The farm had an automatic controller to add nutrients and pH up and down to keep the system balanced. Part of the farm ran equipment ran on solar panels.
Thre is a special drill fitting to drill threads on plastic containers. We got one for $45 to drill the holes for the rain barrel. I found these faucets that are made for rain barrels with rubber backing to help keep them from leaking. I actually have a ball valve on my barrel because the opening is larger in case anything gets stuck in the faucet like algae.
https://www.amazon.com/RAINPAL-Containe ... rel+faucet
https://www.agrisupply.com/oval-tank/p/54747/
Styrofoam floats. It is the core material in most boogie boards. It also does not rot or decay. Although if you bang it pieces can chip off. Most commercial raft hydro systems use styrofoam for the rafts.
Holes are drilled for the net pots. and it allows the roots to grow long and unimpeded. You have to have deep roots to get good plants.
For the net pots we did not use media. The media breaks down and gets into the tank and clogs the filter.
We used oasis root cubes to start the seeds. One seed per cube. The cubes were on a tray that had water from the hydro system constantly running under the cubes. We had a grow area inside the hothouse. When the seedlings had about 4 true leaves we transplanted them out to the raft, rail, and aeroponic systems. We did use sunshine #4 and 1 inch seed tray cells to make seedlings to grow out for the hydroton and cinder beds. When you break off the cube they have to be flat otherwise the seedling won't stand up right in the pot.
https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prod ... grow-media
The grow rocks would wick the water up. The problem would be if the fine particles of media get in the tank,then it messes up when they get stuck in the pump.
Our system had aerators but the water was moved from the underground storage tank and pumped up to the grow beds, rails or aero tower and they gravity fed back down to the main tank. The tank was mostly buried underground to try to keep the water cool especially in summer. The farm had an automatic controller to add nutrients and pH up and down to keep the system balanced. Part of the farm ran equipment ran on solar panels.
Thre is a special drill fitting to drill threads on plastic containers. We got one for $45 to drill the holes for the rain barrel. I found these faucets that are made for rain barrels with rubber backing to help keep them from leaking. I actually have a ball valve on my barrel because the opening is larger in case anything gets stuck in the faucet like algae.
https://www.amazon.com/RAINPAL-Containe ... rel+faucet
Have been doing a lot of reading and watching videos on the Kratky method. It seems easy enough for a beginner. I'm pitching the large tote and most likely the cups. Instead I'm going with two 8 gal totes and small plastic cups. Also starting my next seeds in rockwool.
Going to start a "practice" grow until the next seeds sprout. I have a 3 gal tote that I found today. It has a snap on lid and is MUCH stiffer than the big tote so it shouldn't bow. I have a couple of seedlings in soil. Hopefully I can transfer them without killing them. If I do...oh well...another lesson learned. Everything I've seen says CFLs and LEDs are the prefered lights, but I'm trying the HPS since I already have it. I know it gives off heat, but since they're in the cool basement it should be fine.
I bought a bag of Chem-Gro lettuce formula but can't find how much to use per gallon.
Ed
Going to start a "practice" grow until the next seeds sprout. I have a 3 gal tote that I found today. It has a snap on lid and is MUCH stiffer than the big tote so it shouldn't bow. I have a couple of seedlings in soil. Hopefully I can transfer them without killing them. If I do...oh well...another lesson learned. Everything I've seen says CFLs and LEDs are the prefered lights, but I'm trying the HPS since I already have it. I know it gives off heat, but since they're in the cool basement it should be fine.
I bought a bag of Chem-Gro lettuce formula but can't find how much to use per gallon.
Ed
Took some time off to watch a TON of videos on Hydroponics. Stopped a 4 different Hydro stores in my area and talked with anyone who would listen. I learned that no two people do it the same way. Also, some people use more than 1 method. I'm going to try a few slightly different setups and see how each work.
Lights are 2 4' flourescent fixtures. Each have a 2700k tube and 5700k tube. Timer 16 hrs on.
Ed
I think I can....I think I can
Lights are 2 4' flourescent fixtures. Each have a 2700k tube and 5700k tube. Timer 16 hrs on.
- Tomato seedlings 10 days
- seedings.jpg (105.54 KiB) Viewed 12494 times
- Started a celery from cutting the bottom off a bunch and putting in water a few weeks ago.It is in soil and will eventually be planted outside. Figured I'd try one Hydro and see how they compare.
- celery & Tomatosjpg.jpg (83.87 KiB) Viewed 12494 times
- Transplanted 3 lettuce, 1 tomato and 1 pepper into a floating setup. 5 gal water 1/4 tsp ChemGro 8-15-36 and 1/8 tsp epson salt per gal.
- float.jpg (92.31 KiB) Viewed 12494 times
- Tap water PH was a dark 7...almost 8. Picture is after PH down was added. I will add more tomorrow. Looked closer to 6 under the flourescent lights.
- PH after.jpg (72.84 KiB) Viewed 12494 times
- Found 3 gal buckets w/lids for $3 each and want to try Peppers, Cucumbers, Tomato and Pole Beans outside. I've seen some videos where they string them up as opposed to the way they grow in dirt. I'm sure there will be an evaporation problem with the heat. I have time yet to figure it out.
- Buckets.jpg (70.64 KiB) Viewed 12494 times
I think I can....I think I can
3/11/2017 update....
Have my nutrients: ChemGro 8-15-36, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate. PH test, PH up and down. Hydroton and Grow stones......."The Rocks that don't Roll"
4 totes for indoors starting different vegetables from seedlings and growing mostly lettuce.
Found 10 3 gal plastic containers w/lids ($3 each) and 5 5 gal buckets w/lids (free) for outdoor growing. I now have a 55 gal barrel (Free) which will be a rain barrel. Well, the barrel was free. It will cost about $100 with parts and a PERMIT
Whether I learned anything will show in a week or so.
Ed
To error is human... to really screw things up takes a committe
Have my nutrients: ChemGro 8-15-36, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate. PH test, PH up and down. Hydroton and Grow stones......."The Rocks that don't Roll"
4 totes for indoors starting different vegetables from seedlings and growing mostly lettuce.Found 10 3 gal plastic containers w/lids ($3 each) and 5 5 gal buckets w/lids (free) for outdoor growing. I now have a 55 gal barrel (Free) which will be a rain barrel. Well, the barrel was free. It will cost about $100 with parts and a PERMIT
- Tomato plants started from seedlings
- 3-11-2017 tomato started hydro.jpg (74.8 KiB) Viewed 12468 times
- 8 days on the first lettuce, tomato and pepper to go in hydro
- Float plants 3-11-2017.jpg (77.75 KiB) Viewed 12468 times
- 2 pole beans and 2 lettuce started
- 3-11-2017 Pole Beans started Hydro.jpg (92.49 KiB) Viewed 12468 times
- Whole indoor setup so far. Adding 1 more light fixture and tote when other seedlings are ready.
- Whole Hydro.jpg (81.42 KiB) Viewed 12468 times
- Started a celery from a cutting
- Hydro Celery 3-11-2017.jpg (107.13 KiB) Viewed 12468 times
- Was going to write...Now in Hydro...But I guess it always was...LOL
- Hydro celery Kratky 3-11-17.jpg (89.6 KiB) Viewed 12468 times
Ed
To error is human... to really screw things up takes a committe
3/18/2017 update......
Water Temp 66*.... Air Temp 71* under the lights.....Humidity 25*
PH was low 5.0...boosted to 6.0
Come to think of it..I have not seen a video of Celery & Hydroponics....
Another week and I may put it in soil
Freakin' Cleveland weather! We've had weeks of 50+* in January & February and now that March is here we can barely break freezing.
Ed
Two wrongs don't make a wright, but two Wrights made an airplane.
Water Temp 66*.... Air Temp 71* under the lights.....Humidity 25*
PH was low 5.0...boosted to 6.0
- Tomatoes seem to be doing well.
- Tomatoes.jpg (89.1 KiB) Viewed 12455 times
Another week and I may put it in soil
- No much growth....
- Celery.jpg (76.05 KiB) Viewed 12455 times
- Lettuce not doing as well as I had hoped. The pepper looks good.
- Lettuce.jpg (106.64 KiB) Viewed 12455 times
Ed
Two wrongs don't make a wright, but two Wrights made an airplane.
Decided to do a little checking. Found a list of veggies and their PH,PPM cF & EC values. Check each tote:
Beans: 6.0 PH, 795 PPM
Tomatoes: 6.5 PH. 475 PPM
Lettuce: 5.0 PH......whoa......AND only added nutrients for 3 gals and it holds 5. (insert face-slap here)
1st things first....dumped the tote and started over. Added the RIGHT amount of nutrients and re-PH'ed.
Lettuce: 6.5 PH and 867 PPM
Now, the PPM....the chart shows only PH for Beans (hmmmm?), Tomato 1400-3500 and Lettuce 560-840. So the lettuce is just a little high but what's up with the tomatoes?
I also looked again for Hydroponic Celery and all I found was from seed....not cut from store bought. So I planted it in the pot with the other one. I also amended the soil with a tablespoon of ground Coffee Grounds, Egg Shells and Banana Peels.
Ed
My plants used to stone me...now I stone them.
Beans: 6.0 PH, 795 PPM
Tomatoes: 6.5 PH. 475 PPM
Lettuce: 5.0 PH......whoa......AND only added nutrients for 3 gals and it holds 5. (insert face-slap here)
1st things first....dumped the tote and started over. Added the RIGHT amount of nutrients and re-PH'ed.
Lettuce: 6.5 PH and 867 PPM
Now, the PPM....the chart shows only PH for Beans (hmmmm?), Tomato 1400-3500 and Lettuce 560-840. So the lettuce is just a little high but what's up with the tomatoes?
I also looked again for Hydroponic Celery and all I found was from seed....not cut from store bought. So I planted it in the pot with the other one. I also amended the soil with a tablespoon of ground Coffee Grounds, Egg Shells and Banana Peels.
- Daddy is that you?
- celery in dirt.jpg (102.65 KiB) Viewed 12447 times
My plants used to stone me...now I stone them.
4-2-2017 update
Very little progress on the outside setup during the week. The weather here sux.
I forgot what type of lettuce this is. I bought some Salad Bowl and Romain seeds for when the tomatoes and Peppers go outside. I'm also going to try potatoes. Have never tried to grow them, but the look fairly easy.
I kept calling this a bean plant. I believe it's a cucumber. That's what I get for putting all the Jiffy Pots in a square tray to germinate.
Ed
Very little progress on the outside setup during the week. The weather here sux.
- Overview
- Sea Of Green.jpg (115.52 KiB) Viewed 12389 times
- Tomato plants are getting huge. Another 2 weeks and I'll have to start building a trellis in the basement.
- Tomato.jpg (90.26 KiB) Viewed 12389 times
- Lettuce.jpg (111.38 KiB) Viewed 12389 times
- Cucumber.jpg (103.84 KiB) Viewed 12389 times
Ed
If you are doing Kratky method, it works best with a short crop like lettuce that can be harvested in 30-45 days.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/vc-1.pdf
My friend grew lettuce in a liter bottle. We did make some mistakes since we were substituting miracle grow for the hydroponic solution and we did not know at first that it was o.k. for the water level to drop so we kept refilling the water, diluting the solution in the end. When we repeated the experiment, it worked better for us to just use new solution every week. We kept the lettuce in a garage and it did not get as big because it did not get enough light and probably because miracle grow is meant to be used on soil based plantskra. It would have worked better if we actually used the hydro solution. There are only 2 suppliers here so it is not that easy to get them and we did not want to buy a gallon of it.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/dow ... method.pdf
Kratky also came up with a method for growing larger plants (cucumbers and tomatoes) by the same method.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/dow ... method.pdf
Calculating fertilizer rates and knowing how to interpret your EC results are the hardest thing to actually learn. Once you figure what works then it gets a lot easier.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/dow ... 0Rates.pdf
https://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops ... ecipes.pdf
I found this useful tool for calculating how much fertilizer to mix based on the water in the container
https://www.tool-rank.com/tool-blog/edi ... 610071988/
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/vc-1.pdf
My friend grew lettuce in a liter bottle. We did make some mistakes since we were substituting miracle grow for the hydroponic solution and we did not know at first that it was o.k. for the water level to drop so we kept refilling the water, diluting the solution in the end. When we repeated the experiment, it worked better for us to just use new solution every week. We kept the lettuce in a garage and it did not get as big because it did not get enough light and probably because miracle grow is meant to be used on soil based plantskra. It would have worked better if we actually used the hydro solution. There are only 2 suppliers here so it is not that easy to get them and we did not want to buy a gallon of it.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/dow ... method.pdf
Kratky also came up with a method for growing larger plants (cucumbers and tomatoes) by the same method.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/dow ... method.pdf
Calculating fertilizer rates and knowing how to interpret your EC results are the hardest thing to actually learn. Once you figure what works then it gets a lot easier.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/dow ... 0Rates.pdf
https://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops ... ecipes.pdf
I found this useful tool for calculating how much fertilizer to mix based on the water in the container
https://www.tool-rank.com/tool-blog/edi ... 610071988/
Busy Busy.....
The weather finally got better so the indoor plants went outside. Pictures posted in Outdoor Hydro post......
Started new plants indoors with an added air pump and multiple air stones in the totes,
Romain and Salad Bowl lettuce seedings.
More lettuce with trimmed Musclin Lettuce.
Mixed plants.
Air pump....
The weather finally got better so the indoor plants went outside. Pictures posted in Outdoor Hydro post......
Started new plants indoors with an added air pump and multiple air stones in the totes,
- 4-26-2017 lettuce.jpg (57.81 KiB) Viewed 12303 times
- 4-26-2017 lettuce2.jpg (80.25 KiB) Viewed 12303 times
- mixture.jpg (90.36 KiB) Viewed 12303 times
- air pump.jpg (100.54 KiB) Viewed 12303 times
UPDATE:
So much has happened in the past month, I have the rain barrels hooked up and have 30+ gallon jugs for all 3 systems (indoor hydro, outdoor hydro and outdoor dirt)
Went from a 4ft table to 6ft. Took down the Flourescent fixtures and put up new LED fixtures:
The plants LOVE the lights. I swear they grew 2 inches overnight!!
Most of the indoor plants are now outside. The tomato plants are 3 ft tall and have tomatoes.
Added an air pump and timer. Air for DWC tomatoes and water/air for Dutch Buckets.
Started a new batch of lettuce varieties indoors.
Ed
So much has happened in the past month, I have the rain barrels hooked up and have 30+ gallon jugs for all 3 systems (indoor hydro, outdoor hydro and outdoor dirt)
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- LED.jpg (105.17 KiB) Viewed 12234 times
- LED Label.jpg (103.97 KiB) Viewed 12234 times
Most of the indoor plants are now outside. The tomato plants are 3 ft tall and have tomatoes.
- Tomato Plants.jpg (142.45 KiB) Viewed 12234 times
- Tomatoes.jpg (141.94 KiB) Viewed 12234 times
- air pump & timer.jpg (82.53 KiB) Viewed 12234 times
- Lettuce Start.jpg (136.43 KiB) Viewed 12234 times
You can fix the bulging sides of the tote by glueing a 3/8" aluminum rod underneath the top lip of the tote before you fill it. It will give the tote just enough support so the sides don't bulge at all. I used liquid nail to glue them but you could probably use silicone adhesive. The rods sell at home depot for between $5-6 in 36" lengths. I went to the tool rental section in home depot and they cut them in half for free.