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rainbowgardener
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Light stand suggestions

No, I'm not suddenly going hydro, but it seemed like hydro folks might be most likely to know the answer to this question. And the description of this Forum included "grow lights."

I really want to be able to start some seeds this winter; I would never be able to afford all the plants I want for my blank slate yard. Anyway all my garden money will go for trees and shrubs.
So I need to make a new seed starting set up. For this year anyway, it will have to be in the garage. And pretty much all the usable wall space in the garage is claimed, so I don't think I can do wall mounted shelves like I used to have (I will have to keep considering that, whether things could be re-arranged so I could have 4 feet of wall space, but for the time being let's say no.)

That means having the set up in the middle. (We have the motorcycle and the riding mower in one side of the two car garage; the cars can stay in the driveway, they are used to that.) I thought about trying to hang lights from the ceiling. (And nothing is ruled out yet.) But the garage ceiling is like 12 feet high (the garage floor is below ground level to the main level of the house.) So it occurred to me that the easiest solution would be if I could buy or make some kind of light stand.

Criteria - I want it to hold 4 ft long fluoro tubes, at least two of them (four would be even better) and of course the light has to be easily raised and lowered. Ideally, it would be tall and wide enough that I could put my kitchen cabinets and counter top under it, so all the trays and pots would have a storage spot. And of course, I can't spend a fortune.

So far I found this: https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-JSV2-2- ... ight+stand

But it only has one bulb and some of the reviews said it is pretty flimsy and wobbly.

I also found plans for making a tiered system:

https://www.finegardening.com/nurture-se ... wing-stand

I might try that, it is still on my list....

But I thought I would see if other people had suggestions .

Incidentally, here's how the garage is looking currently:
IMG_0431.JPG
IMG_0431.JPG (37.15 KiB) Viewed 2647 times
so there is room ....

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rainbowgardener
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bump....


surely some of all you hydro folks must have experience with light stands....

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rainbowgardener
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this kind of thing would work

Image

but of course I found it advertised for over $500 and I don't want to spend that. And plants couldn't get very big that way.

OK here's someone's DIY idea I found:

Image
https://cdn.instructables.com/FG3/8S1I/F ... MEDIUM.jpg

This would be cheap. It was for a hydro system, but wouldn't have to be. But not real easy to raise and lower the lights. He did that by adding and removing lengths of pipe. And not stackable.

OK.... maybe closing in on it.

Here's someone doing DIY hanging lights from metal shelf system https://yougrowgirl.com/build-a-d-I-y-lighting-system/

Still likely to be pricey. To have a whole bunch of lights and plants on it, the shelving has to be VERY sturdy. I found these which seem like appropriate sturdiness:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gladiator-4- ... /204280487

but $200 for the shelving unit, plus a whole bunch of light fixtures and bulbs.

I guess I'm just in sticker shock. The set up I had before, I built piecemeal over years, so I never had to lay out all the cash at once.

Fortunately I have until Feb to figure this out and get it together. ....

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applestar
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Why that Gladiator one? I was looking at this one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-48-in- ... /203828250

Image

...also, I was checking CRAIGSLIST with renewed recent interest :wink: -- I look under free stuff, farm/garden, materials, household, and general.... And I noticed some used industrial shelving offers -- a tad expensive, mass quantities, and 4 feet depth so not applicable for your purposes, but there might be others. Definitely lots of used kitchen cabinets.... What about a China/hutch?

Also, I was thinking what about 3 ft x 14"-18" units grouped into a U shape? --- | | would that work? If this configuration allows light fixtures to be hung, then grouped and lashed together (zip ties etc.) shelving units would be less likely to fall over.

imafan26
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Would something like this work? Dowels were used in the slots in the frame to adjust the lights.


https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/464/#b

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Allyn
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The thing about building with PVC is you can custom-make it to suit your purpose. I built this:
Image
for about $60 in PVC and cut a sheet of plywood for the shelves. (no the shelves aren't in the picture. I took the pic right after I built it before the shelves were added.)

It accommodates two-foot lights, but you can easily do a plan for four-footers. The lights are raised and lowered by chains. I wanted wide spaces between the shelves. Your plan doesn't have to be as tall or it can have more shelves. If you use Schedule 40 PVC, it has a thicker wall and so it's more sturdy than Schedule 80 PVC.

imafan26
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I saw some pvc ones too but I like yours. I do use pvc over my orchid benches for shadecloth, but I have problems since they are not glued with them shaking apart in the wind and the neighbors invasive plants sitting on them causing them to collapse. How much weight can the pvc shelf tolerate?

As for hydroponics. Can't help with the light issue. The hydrobeds are in a hydro house with either clear or opaque panels so the daylight comes through. Electricity is needed only to run the pumps and the fans.

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Allyn
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I don't know how much weight. Both the top and middle shelf have been full of plants (I don't have the light fixture for the bottom shelf yet) and I lean a bit on the middle shelf to work on the top shelf and it's been quite sturdy so far. I used 3/4-inch Sch 40 PVC. Before I built it, I was wondering if the 3/4-inch would be sturdy enough or if I should go to one-inch. My husband assured me the 3/4-inch Sch 40 would be fine and he was right. If you do something similar, you can use one-inch in the Sch 40 PVC to be sure.

What schedule is the PVC you use on your orchid bench? If it isn't the thicker-walled PVC, it can be quite wimbly. If you take a length and bend it into an arc, it isn't the thicker-walled PVC.

The joints are glued very minimally. I didn't use primer and just used a dab of glue at each joint. Since it doesn't have to carry water under pressure, priming and thoroughly gluing was not necessary. The better part of a little $4 can of glue is left over for the next shelf (and probably the next few shelves) I make .

imafan26
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I am using schedule 40 and I have some grey pvc with threads that are thicker they just don't make good corners without a couple of adapters. My frames are 4 ft x 4 ft x3 ft. It might work better if I used the 3/4 inch instead of the half inch.

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rainbowgardener
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I knew I could count on all of you (or y'all as they say in my new location :) ) to come up with some good suggestions!

Applestar, as much as I have been recommending craigslist lately, I can't believe I didn't think of it for this.... :?

And clearly sometimes my thinking does get stuck. I have used the set up I had in two different locations (first was a more primitive version) for over 15 years. I was having trouble getting past the image of how I have always done it, to open up my thinking.

So now I have lots of good ideas and a few months to sort them out and decide what works in my situation. I will let you know what I come up with!!!

In the meantime, applestar, I think you have experience starting seeds in chilly conditions. This will be in the (so far) unheated garage at least this first year. No power to the shed and it would cost a lot to run it out there. I will have heat mats, so the soil can be warm. But once seeds are sprouted, how cool can the air be for them to grow? It won't be as cold here as Cincinnati, but we do still have winter. In Feb, when I am likely to be starting, average low temp (in Chattanooga a few miles away) is 32 at the beginning of the month and 37 by the end. But of course there are always days colder than average. .... I can put a space heater in the garage. If I have to, I can try to rig up a grow chamber with the seedlings and the space heater inside it, but that's more work than I really want to do. What do you think?

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rainbowgardener
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@ applestar or anyone else with experience starting seeds indoors but in chilly conditions. The question above never drew an answer:

In the meantime, applestar, I think you have experience starting seeds in chilly conditions. This will be in the (so far) unheated garage at least this first year. No power to the shed and it would cost a lot to run it out there. I will have heat mats, so the soil can be warm. But once seeds are sprouted, how cool can the air be for them to grow? It won't be as cold here as Cincinnati, but we do still have winter. In Feb, when I am likely to be starting, average low temp (in Chattanooga a few miles away) is 32 at the beginning of the month and 37 by the end. But of course there are always days colder than average. .... I can put a space heater in the garage. If I have to, I can try to rig up a grow chamber with the seedlings and the space heater inside it, but that's more work than I really want to do. What do you think?

thanks much for suggestions about what I will need to do....

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applestar
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Ooh! I'm sorry! I did see this but it slipped my mind last weekend, and then I managed to catch a bug from messing around outside and overexerting myself.

Overall, it's easier to germinate/sprout seeds that need really warm conditions like tomatoes etc. in warmer temp indoors first.

I'm sure you will be organizing the seed starting logistics and schedule according to germination and growing temps. Your germination set up inside doesn't have to be very big if you are willing to do this in two stages. You might even consider using the micro soilblocks

Brassicas and other cool temp seedlings can be put out in near freezing temp.

Once sprouted, tomato seedlings can take temps down to 40's though once they have a couple of true leaves, they actually get more cold sensitive, and if you see them get purple all over and yellow, they are in danger of getting stunted. (I pushed this envelope this spring and lost some -- they never recovered from the stunting). They are better off in 50's or above.

I think I had better results when I was experimenting with using Christmas lights, but they made me too nervous. Heating pad can make the difference and while the lights are on, the air temp is raised too. I do cover the entire set up with plastic sheeting in the depth of the winter, and use that mylar covered foam windshield reflector in the front which I think insulates them a bit.
Maybe a single incandescent bulb is all you need under the cover.

I don't put peppers out in the garage until I can be sure temps will stay above 50°

Be prepared for things to grow slower in the colder temperature.

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rainbowgardener
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Thanks so much! This is very helpful as I am just in the planning stages of figuring out how to make this all work. I will scale it down. I won't be starting 500+ plants this winter. But with my blank slate yard, I just have to be able to start some seeds....

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applestar
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Currently, my cobbled together garage V8 Nursery is set up on an 80's Lane black lacquer with brass trim dresser with a matching large mirror, against the house side wall with wire wall shelving just outside the laundry room -to- garage people door, and the bicycles are stored in the front of the garage just inside the garage door, which makes it difficult to transport the plants outside -- I have to use the 2nd garage door for the 2nd bay.

But I have often thought that if the seedling flats were on sturdy shelves with industrial wheels, it would be great to be able to just roll them outside on nice days as the weather warms up in spring. ...just a thought...

I also have a metal mailroom cart buried in the back of the garage currently holding dinosaur computers like Mac IIcx with 640x480 monitor and NEC briefcase laptop with two 720 meg disk drives and DH's PC system from the same era. If I can somehow extricate that cart, I could use THAT to take my seedlings and plants on spring (and fall) outings. (Yeah we've been here for a while :roll: Sigh)

That has to be one of the benefits of moving. You really do get a fresh start knowing what you have and where everything are and within access. :wink:

SFloridaGardener
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How many seeds are you planning on starting? And how long will the be growing indoors under lights?

I would recommend the investment in LED lights if you can. They will last longer than T5s or florescent and they don't put any heat off so I feel safer leaving them unattended at times. Not to mention LEDs are much more efficient.

Depending on how many plants you're starting and weather they will be staggered or different type you will need separate areas, either horizontal or vertical would work. Neither can save you on lighting - just space.

My indoor hydro set up is made of pvc (basically a box) and lined with reflective paper to maximize lighting and help increase temp and humidity. I have the light on an adjustable chain but since I made a dedicated seedling zone with its own light I haven't had to adjust it yet.

I don't have a great picture of my set up but this is the general idea. I'll try and take more tomorrow.

Image

Susan W
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I'll throw out a few ideas. No one has ever commented on my simple seed starting set-up, but I'll repeat briefly anyway. I do seed start 12 months/year. From about July on is for the next season, spare a few kitchen herbs. Total starts in the hundreds. Lost track weeks ago! Loss from no germination to losing seedlings up there. I am growing a mess of stuff most aren't, so much is trial and error on my part.

I utilize a couple of rooms in the house that have good windows for natural light, and add some electric lighting. No heat mats. The seedlings sprout (hopefully) and when up with some true leaves go to 4" pots. Depending on temps, may stay in for awhile or go out. April through Oct is easy for being outside, and plants happier.

There are now 4 mini greenhouses along the deck south face so have shelter from wind, and with deep eaves, from rain and frost. Those shelves are too hot in the summer months, and I lost some plants this season having them there too long. In the winter watch the temps. Some plants don't do well below 50 (such as tomatoes, basil), and some can take 30 if sheltered, some strong perennials 20.

As you are mainly planting for yourself, do your homework and make lists. These lists will change by the day of course! Figure what you need to start early, say Jan, then Feb, March etc. Your quick and easy annuals (marigolds, zinnias etc) can be 1st April or later. Our frost is mid April, as I am sure yours is. Don't let the pretty March and early April days fool you, as you will have frost, and could be a doozie! Have the starts out as much as possible, but be ready to pull in!

Perhaps you have an area in the house with windows E, S, or W that you could use, a few seeds starts at a time as you work through your list.

ButterflyLady29
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I've got a plant stand/greenhouse (yes, outdoors) that is made from a converted shelving unit that originally held animal cages in a research facility. My shelves aren't adjustable and I don't have lights on them but I do have a way of keeping your unit warm. If you use one of those metal industrial shelf units you will need to finish the shelves with a marine or outdoor type finish (paint, polyurethane, etc). Then get some magnets and a couple cheap clear shower curtains. Wrap the shower curtains around the sides of the unit and hold in place with magnets. You'll need 2 curtains but if you use florescent lights the heat from the ballasts should be enough to keep the unit warmer than the rest of the garage. Make sure you have just a small overlap in the front so you have easier access. Seed starting heat mats would also add some heat. Shop the Christmas or Halloween clearance sales for light timers. I picked up some good 2 outlet timers for half price a couple years ago.

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rainbowgardener
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Butterfly lady - I have done that before. My old place I had a mini greenhouse on the deck for when the seedlings were first coming outside. I made it from metal shelving unit just wrapped with clear plastic sheets. I wrapped it around the unit, then glued velcro strips down the front edges, so that I could open and close it.

So yes, I guess I could do something like that for in the garage. I would have a couple heat mats for the seed starting so that should add some heat. I hadn't thought about it, because the point of the one on the deck was trapping solar energy and there's none of that in my garage.

SFlorida - I would love LED, but it is pretty prohibitively expensive. I'd really like to have 8' of lighting (until the recent move, I had 16'), wide enough to cover a 20" tray. And it isn't standardized enough yet. Trying to start looking at them is very confusing. Different combinations of volts and watts and wavelengths. Some of the ads/ listings show you the whole spectrum of what it puts out and some give you zero information. And price ranges for LED grow lights for things that superficially look pretty similar, from $800 to $29 .... I have no idea what I would be buying. So there's this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-225-Blue-Re ... 0572709124 12V 225 Blue Red Mix LED Grow Light Panel Hydroponic Indoor Gardening Plant Lamp for $29. It doesn't say it anywhere in the ad, but by careful research it seems that this one has to be plugged into a ballast (not included) and then can't just be plugged in, needs an adapter (not included). Even so the $29 doesn't make sense. What else is wrong with it? I just would be too lost even trying to buy one. I can go to the store and buy a standard T-5 fluro tube and shop light fixture for cheap and know what I am getting.

Susan, thanks so much for the suggestions. I have only east or west windows in my house and none real well suited. Window sill growing for seed starting has never worked very well for me. Not enough light intensity or consistency and everything grows towards the windows. For larger plants, I may try to set up at least one window like this:

Image
https://jnafau.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... Window.jpg

transparent shelves across the windows. But even if I get that done, I still want some seed starting set up.

SFloridaGardener
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I got myour LED light from Amazon for $40 and it covers the 2x3 area well at the height I have it. Could probably cover more if I raised it. The foil wrapping really helps reflect the light inward.
Erligpowht 45W LED Red Blue Indoor Garden Plant Grow Light Hanging Light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S2DPYQM/re ... lwbF40EKZX

Here is a video of mphgardener and his set up with fluorescent lights...



Also make sure you have a fan set up to blow air on the seedlings. Mine were really weak and didn't do well when I moved them outdoors because the stem was very thin. Once I added a breeze they got a lot stronger.

ButterflyLady29
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I love those clear shelves! I've got a couple south facing windows those would look wonderful in.

thefuriousone
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I like the 2nd idea, the first one is just a stand, shop lights are great and relatively in expensive and perfect for the first stages of growth. I personally started with reflectors and CFLs which would also work great for seedlings. As far as a stand goes I would suggest wire shelving lots of places to attach lights :D

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rainbowgardener
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So I was posting a reply in the current greenhouse thread: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 50&t=65788

I suggested this instead:

Image

and then I went :idea:) :idea:) :idea: :idea: forehead slap (we need an emoji for that!)

isn't that the answer to my seed starting problem? I could have one of these in my garage. Hang lights from two of the shelves. Put heat mats on it. With the enclosure to hold in some of the heat from the heat mats, the garage would probably only have to be heated enough to keep it from freezing. That one is 27 inches wide, which is enough for 2 foot fluoros, but only 18" deep. Poor planning - not quite enough for a 10x20 tray to go across it.

With a lot of looking around, I finally found this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Early-Start-Shelf ... B000AMP9D6

something like $25 more to get those extra 2" of shelf depth, but there it is: 40" W x 20" deep.

Get two, put one on the deck for when plants start coming out and one in the garage with lights for seed starting....

Susan W
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Like this? This was in March. I have 4 total.
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rainbowgardener
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Yes, but I would want one for indoors and hang lights from the shelves. The idea is finding some way to start seeds under lights in my unheated or not very heated garage.

ButterflyLady29
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I used to have one of those shelves but it fell apart after a year. IMO, not very sturdy and the plastic cover degrades very quickly. And the size is a little small for the cheapie shop light fixtures. Wire shelving would work very well. Just put a sheet of plywood over the top and another over the bottom shelf. Use zip ties or small size chain to attach the lights to the underside of the shelves. A heat mat on the bottom should be enough to keep the whole thing warm even when the lights are off if you have it all wrapped up.

The only plants you might have problems with would be peppers, eggplant, and tomatoes. They will take cooler temps after sprouting but keep the temp no cooler than about 50*F. The cooler temp will help keep the plants from getting leggy.

No need to heat the whole garage, just the area you use for seed starting. The set-up would have to be placed close to an outlet, not in the middle of the room.

imafan26
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I use these for storage in my garage. I don't need to start seeds.

https://www.costco.com/TRINITY-EcoStorag ... 43963.html

My mom got them for me for my birthday. I have two of them against my garage wall. Unfortunately being the packrat that I am, they are full and I still have stuff overflowing. The price has gone up since I got mine. But they carry a lot of weight. the good thing about them is that they are on wheels and they can be stacked together like the rolling bookshelves at the library to save space, but will be easy to move because they have wheels. My carts do have wheel locks. The back of the shelf does have a lip and that has been very helpful for keeping things from falling off the back of the shelf.

This is a similar cart with one less tier but the height is the same so there should be more space between the shelves.
https://www.costco.com/TRINITY-4-Tier-Wi ... 22433.html



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