hydroguy
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Peppers

Enjoyed cooking with fresh peppers this summer so I thought I'd try growing some inside this winter in a new flood/drain system I've put together. The peppers chosen for this project are Serrano Chili, Large Cherry and Jalapeno Gigante. These are all hot peppers from Burpee.

The seeds were germinated in rockwool with hydroton as a substrate. Plants were grown in 6" square pots in a 2x2 flood tray. Humidity domes were removed when the first set of true leaves emerged. A 125w CFL provided light until the seedlings were mature enough to move under a 400w MH sytems were they are sitting today. I planted 3 seeds per pot, 5 pots per variety. Plants were thinned down to 2 plants per pot when all seeds germinated.

There's still some things to do to the flowering chamber today before the plants can be transfered over. Here's a few pics of them in vegg. Plants are about 6 weeks old.

Group shot
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1119100817-01.jpg[/img]

Large Cherry
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1119100821-01.jpg[/img]

Serrano Chili
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1119100821-00.jpg[/img]

Jalapeno Gigante
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1119100819-00.jpg[/img]

hydroguy

hydroguy
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Well it took 2 days to complete this garden. First thing I had to do was run a designated 20Amp. circuit, combined Amp draw for all the equipment totaled around 12 so I wanted to play it safe and have a circuit just for this garden. That was yeterdays project.

Today I got back on the sytem itself, most of which had been built back in the summer but still needed some attention.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101418-02.jpg[/img]

The buckets a 2 part modules from an old Ebb & Grow unit I ran back in the day. Bottom bucket has a feed/drain hole connected to 1/2" tubing while the top bucket is solid except for the bottom which has holes drilled throughout.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/6-12-2010/PICT0086.jpg[/img]

Each set of 3 buckets is connect to a fill/drain line which is feed out through the bottom of the tent. These lines are connected to a "manifold" for lack of a better word. This part is my own design. A 5 gl. bucket serves as the manifold. 2 holes in the bottom are the fill and overflow lines. I made 3 holes on the side to connect to the lines from the chamber. The flood heigth in the manifold is set by adjustable overflow pipe. Goal is to set the water level in the manifold so that it comes to the top of the buckets inside the chamber but not run over. Pictures explain this much better than I can but its based on the principal that water will find it's own level.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101419-01.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101419-02.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101559-02.jpg[/img]

Here's a shot of the system on it's first dry "wet" run. Flood heigth is just where I was wanting it to be. Fill time and drain time are both gravity feed and takes about 8 minutes each so I'll be running this system on a 30 minute flood cycle.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101601-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101559-01.jpg[/img]

Setting the plants in can be done many ways. I prefer to do it with the system partially flooded. Seems to be the most gentle to the roots. After I've spread out the root s I'll hold the plant and finsih filling it with hydroton. Trick to running hydroton is to have enough in the pots above the water line so that the top stays dry. Wet rocks will be covered in mold/algae in a short period of time.

Anyways here's the system loaded with plants, truth be told I enjoy designing and building system all most as much as I do growing plants in them.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101715-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101730-01.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1120101731-00.jpg[/img]

hydroguy

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I did some research last night and found out I had my light cycle set too short for peppers. Even though the research was a couple years old I still think it's relevant to these plants. Seems the ideal day light period is 15 hours, they were started in this chamber on a 12 hour cycle. I had them running on 16 hours for the majority of veg and flowers had started to develope already before they went into the flowering tent. Last picture shows the first little peppers in the garden!

Since the light for this chamber is a bit brighter (600watt) and a different spectrum (HPS) I started them off with the light raised as high as possible and I've been lowering it a couple inches daily after the first 2 days. Ph is holding steady at 5.8 after the new meter arrived and the concentration is steady at 550ppm so I'll try and keep it there until the flowering nutrients get here.

Overall growth is noticeable when compared to the photo taken this past weekend.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1124101550-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1124101549-00.jpg[/img]

hydroguy

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Halfway
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Fantastic Hydroguy!

Please keep this running. I am gleaning several ideas on the buckets and rethinking the HID. I still am hesitant to go that route, but I am very anxious to see your results.

Thanks again!
Zone 4a.

hydroguy
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Halfway, I do really enjoy growing in buckets for flower and the pots for veg. Versatility/flexability is the key. You can do what ever needs to be done to one plant in either system I run and not effect any other plant in the entire garden. User friendly for sure but it does add to build time some. The grommets, fittings and hose are really cheap though but these darn buckets were way out line for what I paid for them. A trip through the hardware center could find ya a much better deal.

All hot peppers don't grow the same. That's a no-brainer for the experienced pepper growers out there but inside the tent it's really noticeable. The Large Cherry has taken the lead hands down. Setting fruit daily and blooms that are about to open are many. The Jalapeno Gignate are coming along slowly and just now beginning to flower but the Serrano Chili just doesn't look too happy. It's continueing to stretch, lighter shade of green in the leaves and just now showing the first sign of any flower. Problem with growing different varieties in the same system is you can't dial in the nutrient requirements for that specefic plant. Overall the plants are holding real steady at 550 ppm as they have drank about 20% of a 40 gl resv. Thats they key to hydro really is to keep the ppm steady as the water lowers, so far so good.

Here's a couple pics:

11-29
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1129101759-00.jpg[/img]

11-29 Cherry Fruit
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1129101759-01.jpg[/img]

11-29 Jalapeno Bloom
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1129101800-00.jpg[/img]

11-29 Cherry Blooms
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1129101801-00.jpg[/img]

hydroguy

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Had a bit of an issue this week with insects, maybe some of you more experienced gardners can help me identify these little critters:

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1202101706-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1202101704-00.jpg[/img]

I pulled all the plants out and sprayed them top to bottom with a product called Safer, an organic insecticide on Friday. I let the plants stay out of the chamber until they had dried completely so not to burn the leaves. It's been 2 days now and no more signs of any pests. I understand there might be larva in the rocks but not many as they seem to laying most of their eggs on the leaves but I'll do a repeat spray in 7 - 10 days just in case. Any ideas what these little critters are?

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1203100730-00.jpg[/img]

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A little hard to tell from the picture, but could be mealybugs.

When you look at them up close do they look a little bit fuzzy, like this:

https://extension.unh.edu/FHGEC/docs/Mealybug.htm ??
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applestar
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Hmmm... Pretty sure they're green aphids. The white flaky ones are molted shells. Safter Insecticidal Soap would definitely take care of them. Don't forget to spray the surface of the growing medium where they sometimes fall off, recover, and regroup. It's a good idea to re-spray in 3~5 days in case there are any you missed, recovered, or hatched.

Aphids mostly reproduce by live-birth (already pregnant, BTW) but it's a good idea to break the cycle.

Also, check carefully to see if there are any ants around. I don't know if ants can get past your hydro set up, but they are ingenius at finding a path, and if one finds a way, the rest of the colony will follow. They will carry aphids up the plants and pasture them out, one per leaf to reproduce. :x It's possible that's how they found your "farm".

This morning, I found an opaque white juvie leafhopper on my basil. It gave itself away by spraying honeydew - squirt, squirt, squirt! -- in the sunlight. :roll: At first I thought there were tiny little hopping insects on the leaves and was looking closely to see if the soil springtails could (im)possibly be having a party in the upper foliage. (Francis Barnswallow, if you're reading this, I think that's what was pictured in the photo you posted recently).

hydroguy
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Thanks a bunch applestar & rainbowgardener for helping me with the insect ID. I'm thinking they must be aphids but there isn't an ant to be found anywhere applestar. That link was very helpful rainbowgardner, it's bookmarked now!

Treatment with the insecticide was effective but not complete. Noticed a few new eggs so I sprayed them down again. This time I had to leave them in the chamber though as they have grown to much really to be taken out for every treatment. I did turn off the light until the spray had dried and it looks like I might be having to treat them on a regular basis :x

I knew growing peppers would push my skills and it has for sure. Growth isn't the issue but polination is. The majority of the flowers dry up and fall off. I had thought this might be the hard part so I did add a fan when the plants went into this system. Between the exhaust fan pulling 177CFM's and the circulation fan going non stop there is just about as much airflow in there as I can make. There are peppers growing just not as many as I had hoped considering the number of flowers.

I did a complete resv. change on these plants at 14 days. Not necessary considering it's a 40 gl resv. but I finally got in the flowering nutrients. Plants setting fruit require a higher P & K ratio compared to N than young vegatative plants. Maybe this will help with the germination of some of those flowers. Increase the PPM's up to 675, will have to see if this is high enough.

The chili's are the back left corner plants and they will not stop growing vertical, couple more days and they will be above the light fixture. No fruit on these yet. My favorite so far is the cherry, short dense plant and fruits forming on them daily. The jalapeno is begining to open flowers but no fruit set yet.

12-07
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1207101929-01.jpg[/img]

Nutrients
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1207101930-00.jpg[/img]

hydroguy

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Like a lot of you guys here in the forum, this grow is an experiment. Some experiments go well and some not so well. This one is not going so well but hey it's all about learning.

Pollination is still kicking my butt. For the past 4 days I've gone in and given the plants and good shaking while holding a small fan blowing up into the plants. Hopefully this will get some of the flowers to pollinate. I do have a few peppers in there growing but just a very small number compared to how many flowers there are/were.

The chili's are not going to be grown indoors again. Darn things will just not stop going vertical. They had actually gone above the light so I had to raise it to the highest level I could. The other 2 variaties are shorter and bushier but this darn chili has got legs and all its flowers are on top which are getting light burned, frustrating.

The bugs are still there but not that big of an issue. I've sprayed them every 4 or 5 days and I couldn't see any signs of fresh egg laying tonight but who knows when they'll return.

On a positive note I have found the nute level these peppers, as a group, like. The resv. is holding steady at 680ish for the last week. I did the resv. change last monday and they've drank a good 10 gallons or more but the PPM is steady.

Getting pics under HPS is a challenge, try it sometime...

12-13
[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1213101704-00.jpg[/img]

hydroguy

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Maybe you could try pruning the hot peppers into submission. :twisted:
You may have seen the "Winter Pepper Torture" thread in the Veg Forum -- some of us are wintering over our hot pepper plants by trimming them down to sticks. Mine are starting to grow new shoots below the extreme haircut.

Re: pollination -- pepper plants, like tomatoes, have complete flowers that are capable of self-pollinating within the flower, so the fan and air movement isn't the issue. You *could* also take a soft watercolor paintbrush and transfer pollen from one flower to another. I noticed last winter that the flowers release pollen more depending on the time of the day. At the moment, I don't remember exactly when but I think it was typically after late-morning and not so much early in the morning. I can't remember if they stopped pollen release after sunset or if the artificial light fooled them into thinking it was still daytime.

If you have aphids, check inside the pepper flowers. They could be hindering pollination and causing premature blossom drop. They congregate inside the flower and cluster ON flower stems and developing buds. They are very much capable of withering the flowers and causing them to drop. Until you learn to recognize the way they look, the aphids appear to be part of the plant structure. :evil:

hydroguy
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applestar, your right on the $$$ I do believe, it's green aphids and they are in the flowers. I have been watching the pepper thread where you guys are doing some serious trimming. It's what I did to the chili's tonight and when I had the stems out and getting a real close look at them I did see some tiny green bugs coming out of some flowers.

I hate to seal up the chamber and gas it with something non-organic at this point but what are the options? The Safer obviously isn't doing the job and I've either got the get a handle on these bugs or unplug the system. I have yet to see an ant in this house so the source is a mystery. I do have a gnat or 2 flying around in the chambers at times but other than that its insect free or so it used to be :?: :?: :?:

thanks for following along with this experiment guys/gals

hydroguy

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Executive decision: unplug the system!

I opened the tent this morning and the aphids were out of control. A grand total of 5 little peppers growing on these huge plants while all the blooms were dying and dropping off. The grow may not have been a complete succes but I did learn a few important things along the way.

1. The system works. This was the first run on a new system and the plants grew just dandy. In a little over 3 weeks the peppers went from nice size plants to bushes. Probably need to get the next plants in there a bit sooner.

2. Light cycle is 15 hours for peppers. Didn't know that when I started and I could tell the impact of a 12 hour cycle fairly quickly.

3. These 3 pepper varieties feed at about 675 ppm running Technaflora nutirents. This was trial and error and took some avid monitoring to figure out but now I know.

4. Serano Chili's grow too darn tall for indoor hydroponics, or atleast this system. The Jalapeno and Cherry did fine though.

5. And most importantly. I NEED AN INSECT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM!

Not all experiments bear fruit but we can all ways learn something from them.

I wanted to try and clone some peppers, figured this was as good a time as any since I had plenty of stems to cut on before the plants went outside. I've had success before but never tried a pepper plant. Let the experiments continue.

hydroguy

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applestar
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Too bad about the aphids -- they ARE persistent. :evil:

I think if you are able to remove the containers the plants are in and if you have a utility sink in the area, the best approach would be to wash the aphids off either by turning the pot upside-down and dunking in mildly soapy water or by using a spray. If you can do this in a dedicated way -- if it's too many to do at once, in rotation over the course of a week, you could REALLY get the aphid population down.

I'm managing mine by inspecting the leaves when I give the containers a 1/4 turn, squishing when it's only individuals or a few, and spraying with mild soap/oil solution when I see a lot.

Since you said "opened the tent" implying enclosed space, and you have such a dense planting, I do think that the best course of action would be a predatory insect. Ladybugs are obvious, and HG mentioned a couple of others in another post, one of them being Aphid Mummy Maker wasp (my favorite in the garden). I'll dig up the link if you want, but if you search for Aphid Mummy Maker, you should be able to find it since I commented right after his with those words. He *may* have provided sources. I think the more esoteric ones are not as readily available as ladybugs, but you could probably get them from specialized sources supplying the professional greenhouse nursery trade.

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Great experiment Hydroguy. I learned from it vicariously!

I may have missed it, but do you have a HPS bulb in there to help the flowering cycle? I now you had the MH and the growth is incredible!

Can't believe the soap didn't work on the aphids. I have 2 resident ladybugs on my ebb and flow tray. I have no idea what they are eating, but they have taken up residence from God knows where, LOL!!!
Zone 4a.

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Halfway wrote:I have 2 resident ladybugs on my ebb and flow tray. I have no idea what they are eating, but they have taken up residence...
That's great! Ladybugs are nice because they're easy to spot as they patrol your plants up and down and all over. :wink:

Other aphid predators I forgot to mention are Green Lace Wings -- the adults don't eat them but their voracious larvae look like ladybug larvae -- "alligator" -- except they're black/grey. I also catch spiders -- not the web spinning kind, but prowlers like jumping spiders -- I find around the house or garage and put them among the plants (they're FREE! :twisted: )

hydroguy
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Appreciate the input guys! Lady Bugs I could possibly live with but wasps on the other hand aren't really an option. All of my systems are in a spare bedroom in the house, spare in the fact I don't sleep in there but I do use the closet to hang my work clothes in. Dunking the plants would be a great solution put flipping them upside down when they are sitting in 2 gallons of hydroton would be a trick. Those rocks hurt when you step on one!

There is a HPS bulb in there Halfway, a 600watt unit. The tent is a DR80 applestar and yes its sealed up most of the time except when I'm in there tinkering around. Main reason I keep it zipped up is for ventilation purposes. Other reason is a 600watt bulb is bright and unless I cover the windows with mylar or something you can see this light a couple blocks away LOL. Most stores recommend a 250watt bulb for this tent but in my opinion that would be a waste of time. Running a 600 gives me about 87 watts per square foot which is ideal of light loving plants.

Obviously I've got to do some more research on this bug thing, first place I'll start is right here at HG.

All is not lost for the peppers, like I said I figured I might aswell try to take some cuttings and see if I can clone them.

Here's a stem, still young as older hardened stems never did well for me. Notice it's got atleast one node sticking below the rockwool. Nodes are the first place new roots form and I also lightly scrapped down the stem with the back side of a razor blade. I don't use gels or powders like alot of folks do, they just wash off when I put them in the system. Probably helps when doing this in dirt. Done it both ways with hydro and it didn't seem to make a difference for me. Important thing to do is to make a fresh cut at the base of the stem just as its going into the flooded tray.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1217100756-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1217100757-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/1217100813-00.jpg[/img]

Humidity is probably more important for clones than it is for seedlings. I stuck these in with some lavendar that's just sprouting up. No direct light above these for a few days.

It's all for fun, maybe these will have a better life than their mothers who are sitting outside in the freezing snow!

hydroguy

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hydro,

I have a huge phobia of stinging insects (have had it for nearly 50 years) but the wasps do not sting. I'm still not sure I could handle them in my house though - it would be my luck to have a bunch of mutants that lover to tenderize me.

Last year, I had a sincere and monumental aphid problem. I mixed up a solution of water, Safer Soap and Neem oil and poured it into a pump-up garden sprayer. Every time I would spot a single aphid, all the seedlings (probably close to 500) got sprayed - top and bottom. Within two weeks, there was not a single aphid left.

I've also had success with boiling tomato plant leaves in water (be careful not to make the solution too strong - it can burn the plants) and spraying that on the plants and sprinkling garlic powder on the plants and grow media.

This summer, our neighborhood was hit with a white fly infestation. They were nearly impossible to control, especially since the fruit was ripe and I didn't want to spray the plants with anything that was not safe to eat the next day or would easily wash off. I was killing a few hundred thousand a day but they were replaced rather quickly.

Mike

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Pollination is probably not a issue. Peppers, unlike people, will not reproduce if they can not support offspring. If there is a problem with their basic conditions, they will not set, and will often abort set fruit. They grow very well hydroponically, if given the proper conditions.

[img]https://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp121/hydrogardener/gm.jpg[/img]
https://hydroponicworkshop.blogspot.com/

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Halfway
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Looks great hydrogardener! Great idea for the supports. Bamboo?
Zone 4a.

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Halfway wrote:Looks great hydrogardener! Great idea for the supports. Bamboo?
Yes, bamboo. A large bundle costs me about three dollars. I make a teepee using a wire tie to hold the top together. The bamboo can be used several times as moisture has little effect on it.
https://hydroponicworkshop.blogspot.com/

What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered.
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hydroguy
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This post will wrap up my failed, yes not all things work as planed, attempted at growing hot peppers insed this winter. The plants went down due to the aphid invasion so back on the 18th of Dec. I cut 8 stems and tried my hand at cloneing them. It's been about 40 days and all 8 plants took root and are now beginning to grow.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/0128111001-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/0128111002-00.jpg[/img]

I used rockwool as a supprt and hydroton as a growth medium. The rockwool really isn't necessary but it keeps that cutting stable during the flood cycles. These cuttings contiued to flower and even formed a couple of small peppers but the purpose was to learn for me and all these plants are now gone. One was still carrying aphids even after repeated spraying. I'll be starting some more peppers soon for the outdoor garden and hope to get a handle on this bug issue well before hand.

SO in the future if you've got one favorite pepper plant you just wanta keep around, clone it! One plant becomes many in a short period of time.

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/0128111006-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/0128111007-00.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/hydroguy/Peppers/0128111008-00.jpg[/img]

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@hydroguy

i WISH my pepper plants looked like the ones i first saw in this thread! they look awesome dude!!

i haven't read this topic yet.. but i will right now..
I am proudly CROWDFUNDING to open my own bistro: Devil's Cut Bistro

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