My pond project is under way

[applestar]

The pond had frozen solid across several times in the deep freeze, and I was concerned about whether it had frozen to the bottom, whether the fish had survived... but yesterday, I saw one goldfish and one minnow/shiner? twice as big as the goldfish swimming around.

The goldfish spotted me first and quickly dashed to hide underneath a sunken fall leaf, then a few moments later, the minnow started swimming around as if in a panic... and I kid you not! the goldfish emerged a little way outside of the leaf, and the minnow streaked to the goldfish and they both dived under the leaf.

...but the bigger minnow could only get the front half of its long body under the leaf, with the tail end frantically wriggling but not getting any further.

It was a CLASSIC cartoon moment.

[applestar]

The pond ice has melted and the ground is starting to thaw -- I can't wait to get started
I haven't been able to spot the fish, but DD SAID SHE SAW THREE

There are a few of these long strands of filamentous algae growing in there. I know they can become "weeds" of the pond, but I'm not sure if I should remove them NOW while they are still only few, or I should leave them as possible food source for the fish....

[applestar]

So excited!

I came across a mention of using air pump to pump water up through a tube. The blog showed pictures and video of a crude tubing set up spitting squirts of water.

But when I searched for more information, I found out it does much more than that and is probably my answer to the costs (energy and $) of natural bog filter pump, waterfall pump and air pump, etc. as well as my budding idea to use the pond and rain barrel waters for aquaponics-inspired, rain gutter SIP system and vertical wall garden that will all require water to be pumped up, sometimes quite high in terms of vertical lift. All ideas I've been noodling in the back of my mind, and desperately trying to consolidate into inter-connected systems using gravity for water transport to reduce number of pumps....

This website has an associated forum but I believe it is OK to mention since it's a specialized forum. I'm definitely going to tinker with these designs this year. In the second video, it was mentioned that the airlift system can also work as protein skimmer, which should be another bonus that I will understand and appreciate more once I learn more.

Airlift.eu

Introduction to airlift pump - YouTube



https://youtu.be/TOVZ4oklBFw

Airlift: How to build - Part one - YouTube



https://youtu.be/SZGaYHJSVLM

[imafan26]

That type of algae is very bad remove it. It is like long strands of hair and it clogs things up.

[j3707]

That airlift pump is a great idea.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and research applestar

[applestar]

You are welcome. I'm just passing along the ideas that are out there to share. I love it that there are so many innovative folks out there that are willing to share these great ideas and experiments. I'd love to see what everybody else comes up with based on these concepts.

I revisited that "spitter" concept, and found these. I can see how this super simple design can be useful for automatic drip irrigation like he is using

Nano Airlift Pump Challenge! BEAT THIS to be Champion! And World record holder! - YouTube


https://youtu.be/lKtB1YKoMxk


Airlift pump in a bucket! 5 month old technology, Already in use in Denmark, Canada France, USA - YouTube


https://youtu.be/8pI31ZwEL40

[applestar]

I'm not ready to do much major work, but I got the turtle spitter spitting today using a tiny air pump that came with a plastic gum ball machine aquarium. It really is just spitting a squirt of water every 4-5 seconds and tiny 1-2 second spits in between, but better this than just sitting there being a statue and NOT spitting

image.jpeg (49.76 KiB) Viewed 16811 times

The pump I attached to the fountainhead is the one I used to use with the turtle and between being underpowered and due to a missing tight fitting adapter, it can't do much more than dribble. I need to find a reducer -- maybe that will help to get it to do something more interesting... Or I will just have to use this pump for something else.

[applestar]

Subject: 2016 -- starting seeds and cuttings for the new season

Sooo excited! -- I took my mom shopping at H-Mart (a Korean/Asian grocery store) and they had a newly opened crate of lotus roots packed in moist wood shavings, some still joined in links like sausages. I grabbed the one with some roots still on the joint.

They also had fresh water chestnuts on sale probably because they were deteriorating -- some were shriveled and some were ... starting to sprout I picked the biggest sprouting ones

I'm going to try to get them started in a bucket for growing in my pond.

Subject: 2016 -- starting seeds and cuttings for the new season

I just checked and these water chestnuts look like they grew some more in the produce bag and want to grow the most right now so I put them in this tray where I was watering the tomato and pepper seedlings for now -- I'll find a smaller container for them later.
I still have to find out the best way to start the lotus roots in a bucket of water... Does anyone know?

...they are greening up already under the lights

...found a couple of informative articles...

Lotus Care Sheet - International Waterlily & Water Gardening Society
https://iwgs.org/lotus-care-sheet/

Lotus Planting & Growing Instructions
https://texaswaterlilies.com/Lotusplanti ... owing.html

I'm floating one of the lotus roots in a bucket of water in an upstairs bedroom wher it will be warm to get it started -- hopefully this isn't too early.

...I was searching on-line for possible lotus growing containers, then went outside and almost tripped over a dark green, sturdy plastic tub -- a tool bin that was inside a hose reel box that broke. It's the perfect size and shape, and I have a terra cotta bowl that I have been using as a birdbath near where the pond is now. That can be the second container. I put some mucky mud and sand in the tool bin tub and filled with rainwater and some pond water to settle so I can skim any floaters. one the water settles and clears up, I'll put it on one of the contoured steps I shaped in the pond, but the lotus root won't sprout until the water temp is up to 70°F according to one article I read.

[applestar]

The lotus in the little bucket is already starting to grow tiny white roots! (I probably should have waited until tomorrow then the roots will be even more visible, but I couldn't resist

I put the round bowl on one set of steps -- it can go deeper as the water temp goes up. The silt in the square green tub is making the water muddy, and I'm waiting to see if the particles will settle. I don't want to put this in the pond if it's going to make the water murky. I read that silty water can be cleared up with gypsum, alum, or organically with floating hay, etc. I'm thinking that must be the barley straw they sell in pond stores. I'm going to try putting some PBRH (Parboiled rice hulls) in a sock and then in the tub tomorrow and see if that will work.

You can't really see it, but there's a goldfish in that water there. This is the part of the pond with squared off steps where the green tub will go. I also saw the second goldfish and about 5 shiners, plus one more fish that looked a little different, so I'm thinking that one is probably the feeder minnow from the pet shop. It seemed like they came up and were pecking at stuff after I put the punky branch (I saw a bunch of springtails and other bugs crawling and floating off) and the round bowl (there were earthworm muck and some ants underneath) in the pond.

...I tried placing a pot saucer where the turtle spits into the pond for an added interest -- what do you think?

[ButterflyLady29]

Just don't overdo the decorations. Too many and it takes away from the relaxing atmosphere a pond creates.

I don't know about adding stuff to make the water less murky. My main experience is with a big fishing pond. My backyard puddle pond is still in the dream stage.

I have to admit that I am terribly jealous of your progress and imagination. I'll have to look for some water chestnuts and lotus. We've got a few Asian grocery stores here and our chain stores carry some hard to find exotic produce. I'm going to need a bigger pond.

[PinkPetalPolygon]

I loved reading this thread!

There was really some suspense about how the fish would make it through the winter! ^_^

I have never lived in a place that snowed. I am enjoying all the perspective of what it is to freeze and unfreeze?

*sends your pond good vibes & well wishes!*

[applestar]

Thank you @PinkPetalPolygon I saw the goldfish and shiners dash away again today. I walk past the shallow area and steps nearest the patio all the time, and they seem to like it there -- probably the water is warmer from the sun shining into it. Since I'm not feeding them, their instinct is to hide rather than to approach.

Did I mention I had found a dried up dead shiner on the grass near the steps on the opposite side a little while ago? DH thinks something was hunting it, and it jumped/flipped out of the water trying to get away.... Probably at night and the predator lost sight of it.

[applestar]

Update on the water chestnuts. They have mostly all sprouted and a few of them were starting to grow roots.

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I took the three with longest roots and planted them. At first I did it this way:

...but I became convinced that that was not the correct way, and found a blog with great instructions. Here is a sketch I made so I had a clear idea of what to do:

image.jpeg (18.76 KiB) Viewed 15391 times

...and the resulting 2 gallon bucket Based on the 18" planting distance, 3 in a 2 gallon bucket is too many, but these were smaller corms so maybe they will manage. I guess ideally I should only plant one to a bucket.

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Hopefully, allowing them to sprout and green up first was not a mistake, but I could imagine flooding, etc. burying the corms after they had sprouted in nature, so hopefully, they will just keep growing and eventually show up above the soil mix and water levels.

I'm thinking I will drill holes in the side of the bucket to let in the water and put the whole thing in the pond to the indicated level once the weather is warmed up. I'll have to decide how to plant the other 10....

...I'm going to start my rice seeds for the rain garden mini-paddy, so I will probably plant some directly in there with the rice.

[applestar]

Until yesterday, I was only seeing the two goldfish and two or three shiners at a time, so I wasn't sure if they had all made it through the winter.

I check all water retaining containers periodically. This hasn't been critical while we still had freezing temperatures but with spring advancing, it's good to be more vigilant. Yesterday, I checked the containers I intended to grow lotus in, which I had not submerged in the pond yet, but I wasn't really expecting to find the mosquito larvae -- some were already at that bulbous headed stage from which they will be morphing into adults any time -- because there were thin ice floating in these just a couple of mornings ago.

I decided the best course of action would be to put the round bowl one step further down in the pond to submerge it, and the green tub on the first step on the other side and sink it since the water in it had completely cleared after I floated some corn cobs and punky sticks in it.

I watched the mosquitos larvae and other water critters bloom out of the submerged containers out into the pond, and had a moment of misgiving -- the fish had streaked into the depth of the pond as soon as I cast a shadow as usual.

...but when I crouched down by the side of the pond to watch and wait, it didn't take them long to discover the bounty. To my surprise and delight, more of the slender shiners slipped into view -- 2..4...6...maybe more. They remind me of sharks the way they glide in the water. Goldfish are awkward by comparison.

I couldn't get all of them in a single photo, but here are some of them. They even went right in the bowl to hunt up any bugs that might be hiding in the leaf litter

[applestar]

Ooooh-kaaay..... I'm NOT having a good feeling about this bucket method to plant the water chestnuts. The "rich" sandy soil mix is starting to make the water stinky. I've been bailing the water out to use for feeding some of the container plants indoors and out -- mostly outside earlier on when it was REALLY bad. (puke) Several water changes have toned it down some, and maybe those corn cobs are helping to clean the water -- not sure but they seemed to help settle the water for the silty water in the green tub for the lotus, so I thought why not?

I also found out that the water chestnut plants will fall off the chestnut when they've grown sufficient roots to fend for themselves. I put a loose plant in the bucket to see if it will go ahead and take root (as well as to use up some of the "richness") but I had to prop it up with the bamboo skewer so the iffy water won't make the leaves rot.

For the remaining water chestnuts that have started to grow roots, I've come up with my own method to get them growing in individual quart size containers. 2/3 sand and 1/3 garden soil in the bottom of the container, then enough water to let the water chestnut float.

My reasoning is that, judging by the way they float, in nature, they probably just bob around, growing roots and shoots until they drift to the shallows where they can take root. You can see how the biggest one has found the bottom and is growing the first leaf.

I'm going to try transplanting them and then filling and adding more sandy soil on top as they grow like we do with potatoes.

~~~

I think it's getting warm enough, so … I put the store bought lotus tubers in the pond

Lotus won't start to grow until the water temp is around 70°F, and with the depth needed to keep the pond from freezing solid to the bottom and keep the fish alive, I expect the pond water temp will remain cold/cool for a while, but I'm hoping the vented containers will act like cloche to make them a bit warmer without cooking them in the sun. Hopefully, they will also function as deterrent and provide a modicum of protection in case of marauders.

[applestar]

I'm actually still not sure these are actually them, but I cold stratified a bunch of 2013 collected Iris versicolor seeds, and these grassy things sprouted in spring. I have them in the pond and hopefully, they will grow up to be Flag Iris.

They have been tolerant of the cool temperatures and haven't minded the wet feet, so those are good signs.


Also, yesterday, I noticed one of the orange goldfish and the fat "minnow" that is definitely not the sleek slate gray and silver shiner but dark brassy black color frolicking among the roots of some uprooted peppermint and elderberry I have temporarily dipped in the shallow parts of the pond to help soak up nitrogen until I get some floating pond plants. The black one that is looking particularly FAT was floating near the surface and then the orange one swam up and sort of slapped at it sideways with its tail fins. Swimming around and repeating. I'm thinking this is spawning behavior? Though with all the shiners stalking every nook and cranny of the pond, I don't really think I will see any babies. In any case, I looked closer at the roots but didn't see anything that looked obviously like eggs.

[applestar]

My hole-in-the-ground pond

-- I know, I know... but ... It was too cold to work with water for a good while, Then super busy and then too hot to think about doing heavy labor. Then, too, I keep changing my mind about what I want for major water feature, and am trying to allocate limited number of pumps -- I seem to have lots of water/fountain pumps, but only maybe 3 of them are working -- one with very limited output -- and others make noise but won't pump. One was completely dead. ...I need to find out if these are useless or can be repaired easily...

I did find these -- a fake water lily solar fountain and a tiny, solar panel powered DC pump.



I still need to see if I can make use of a pump that came with a backyard pool for a gravel filter bog and maybe one or more of DH's old "Powerhead" aquarium pumps.

[applestar]

I forgot to mention that I saw some teeny tiny fry in the shallow part of the pond. I guess those goldfish I saw DID get busy.

[applestar]

...and today, I saw a couple of shiners doing some kind of underwater acrobatics among the plant roots... Either they were eating the fry or they were trying to make some of their own...

- I told DH it looks like he won't have to buy fishing minnows anymore IF he can catch them before going fishing

... I want to build this:

Bog Gravel Filtration: Water Cleaned by Mother Nature - POND Trade Magazine
https://www.pondtrademag.com/bog-gravel- ... er-nature/

[applestar]

Waahhh! I electrocuted all the fish

I finally got the plumbing connections I needed for another project, got that assembled and connected my 2nd water pump. plugged it in, but it wasn't pumping. I remembered I tested it before in the 5 gal bucket and it was working then, so unplugged, pulled it out of the pond and put it in the bucket to test it again. Nothing.

But when I'd plugged it into the multi-port extension, the tiny air pump for the airlift-pumped turtle spitter lost power. Hmmm... Strange.

Unplugged the air pump, plugged in the water pump, and the extension cord started to buzz. Uh oh. THAT sounded like a short.

Looked over at the pond and TWO shiners were floating belly up. NO! OH NO!

Inside the green 5 gal bucket, little feeder goldfish I just bought yesterday were all floating. Pretty soon two more shiners came floating up, but so far no sign of the goldfish. I dared to hope that somehow there was distance involved in electric shock in the water though that didn't seem likely. ... But 4 hrs later just now, I looked out the window and the orange goldfish was floating and when I went outside, I also found the black goldfish --both had grown up to be full size comet 4-5 inches. And I found the last two shiners I knew about along the edge of the water. I suppose all the fry from their hatched eggs are done for too though I couldn't find any when I tried skimming with the net.

Sob sob. No more old unreliable water pumps. Getting a new one. Will have to get more goldfish, too. ...and yes test BEFORE putting in the pond, even if I tested it previously.

[rainbowgardener]

Oh, so sad.....

[pinksand]

Oh no! Poor fish

The pond is looking beautiful though!

[applestar]

Thanks

...still feeling pretty stupid But having your sympathies helps.

[applestar]

Early this morning, I had a wonderful thought while thinking I NEED to get something to control mosquitoes that might start breeding in the pond while the fish is gone... THE FISH IS GONE! -- no fish in the pond -- THAT means.... I could get tadpoles!

I got ready to go, and decided I might as well pick up some wood shavings from the furniture maker and started to call them to see if they had some available... Then I remembered it's 4th of July (Happy Independence Day everyone! ) So no wood shavings today , but garden centers wouldn't miss the business opportunity on a long holiday weekend, right? I got in the car at 8:30, then decided to call to make sure before going. Yep, open.

Came home with 3 lively tadpoles -- I watched closely as the kid rejected a sluggish one and caught a better one

Did all the usual stuff -- floated the bag to equalize temp, mixed some pond water in to acclimate (watched them peck at junk that got in the bag -- yes!), then released them. Of course they disappeared into the depth right away. Not expecting to see them at all now, but trusted that they will make it. I fussed around the pond, flushed my little waterfall pond pump to get it going again, adjusted the tree bark I have arranged around the pond edge... And RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME a little black 4-legged thing climbed out of the water onto one of the floating lotus root (which never sprouted and isn't doing anything )

...what the... It's a FROG! Looked EXACTLY like the frogs in the tadpole tub at the store. My inner clown said "BOY! they grow FAST!"

...I was really happy on several counts...
* I have no idea where this one came from, maybe my neighbor's pond, but when I asked the kid, he said that once they have legs, they will wander off if there is not enough food, but they'll stick around as long as they have plenty to eat. (So obviously my pond can support live frog)
* I was also concerned about the water quality since I hadn't replaced the faulty water pump and haven't set up the gravel bog filter, but this frog seems to think its OK.
* Also that my garden's natural balance system IS working -- I tried to intervene and brought in tadpoles but -- there seems to be a force in the works already to fill the niche vacated by the lost fish.

[applestar]

Well, I said this one looked exactly like the frogs in the store's tadpole tub, but maybe I'm mistaken because I'm pretty sure they are selling American Bullfrog.

This one in my pond might be the same kind as the one I saw before in October of 2013:

Subject: 2013 Backyard bird and butterfly (and dragonfly too) watching

I just posted elsewhere that I saw a frog in a shallow container of water on my patio and I fed it a chopped up slug, but it was gone by the end of the day (and so were the slug pieces)....

Well, I just went out there and it was in a different container -- a tub I used to keep feeder goldfish in, but they had all been relocated or died, but I left the aerator bubbling in it to keep out the mosquitoes and to use the water for watering.

Hmm... DD and I agree it looks like the Green Frog in this brochure: https://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/ensp/pdf/frogs.pdf
-- this page has recording of their call: https://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/ensp/fieldguide_herps.htm

Also, DH who grew up as a boy near rivers and creeks in NJ said "That's a Green Frog" when I showed him the photo. -- I guess he would know.

[applestar]

Well, this morning, I spotted 2 more frogs in the pond, and was happy to see that the tadpoles made it and grew up into frogs. I took pictures, of course, and prepared a collage -- all set to post an update.

...then just a little while ago, I realized I forgot to water the relatively newly planted hot peppers along the fence on this hot day (today's high was 96°F) and with several days of heatwave on the way --including one with heat index of 105°F-- felt compelled to go outside and give them enough to tide them over until tomorrow morning, my scheduled rationed watering day, when I can water them properly.

On the way back past the pond, I noticed there were FOUR frogs -- yay! All THREE tadpoles! ...then saw a FIFTH -- eh?

...there were also a bunch of little black round things swimming everywhere

-- so HERE is a new collage



Most fittingly, I don't have a fancy Koi Pond, not even a Fish Pond ... What I have is a FROG Pond.

[applestar]

>>Click/Tap or open in new tab<<


BGM: Music Together: Flute -- "I had a little frog"

[applestar]

BTW -- if your air pump ever stops working, this video is invaluable.



In my case, repairing a dinky and ancient AQT 1000, duct tape didn't work. I cut off an excess end flap from a heavyish plastic bag some product of other came in and that worked like a charm.

(...this is the air pump I had been using for the turtle spitter, but it wasn't spitting this morning and I switched it out with a new pump, then decided to try fixing it, then realized I HAD to fix it if I wanted to keep the little tadpoles in the house for any length of time. For a while until I figured it out, I was manually supplying air for them with a little piston pump for making balloon animals )

[ButterflyLady29]

I had plans to put in a frog pond this year. Bought the form, have the site ready for digging, even have the wild frogs waiting to move in. Unfortunately life happened and it will have to wait for things to settle down.

So I am so very green with envy about your lovely little frog pond. I'm sorry you lost your fish, especially when they were really making the pond home. But sometimes better things come along. Maybe you'll have toads and dragonflies coming in next.

Do you have a Harbor Freight nearby? Sometimes they carry pumps and fountains. I've got a little solar powered fountain in my little tub pond.

[applestar]

FROG POND, definitely

[Rairdog]

Very nicely done Applestar.... yay

[applestar]

Thanks, Rairdog.

I can't help doing a quick headcount every time I walk by

The frogs are growing and I'm seeing at least two tiny green frogs -- so maybe the tadpoles I bought finally grew up? I know DD saw a tadpole with four legs and a stub of a tail last week or maybe couple of weeks ago, and I posted a photo of the big tadpole with long tail and back legs.

A couple of days ago, I heard a distressed cheep, cheep sound and looked to see if there was a baby bird, and it was one of the little green frogs on the rim of the purple dinosaur sandbox/future bog-gravel filter, making tiny jumps and heading for the big pond. Apparently it got scared when I walked by and was trying to reach and jump into the pond.

The bigger ones are getting more colorful, with brilliant yellow-green mouth/jawline, some with bluer looking heads, and this one with white chin and belly:

[imafan26]

This came up recently so I am asking. How much maintenance is required on the pond? I know if it is balanced it requires less but if there are leaves and debris in the pond how often do you have to clean or drain the pond? Do you use skimmer and how often do you have to clean the leaves out? Do you have to deal with algae. Here algae is in the water so there is always algae in pools and ponds. Do you have to treat the water before you add fish? How much maintenance on the pump?

[applestar]

I don't know the answer and I tend to want minimum fuss -- but my impression is that it will depend greatly on size of the pond and its construction as well as how high tech the filtration, etc. systems are. There are so many different types and sizes of pumps, too. As well, it will depend on whether it is a fish-containing pond. It will also depend on how clear you want the water to be.

I do often read about weekly skimmer and monthly filter cleaning etc. maintenance when pads and other filtration media are used.

After looking at various filtration designs, I'm opting for natural gravel/bog bio-filter and simple waterfall/stream aeration in addition to the one air pump aeration. When I finally get one, I'm going to get a fairly powerful utility/waterfall type pump that can handle unfiltered water with simple mesh debris excluder. I want a natural bottom to accumulate/develop over the liner, so I wont worry too much about fallen leaves and algae except to make sure the pump keeps working. I do have an idea for floating debris/protein skimmer -- I want to incorporate the air lift pump in it -- but thats a back burner BIG project.

Right now only significant mechanical in my sadly neglected pond is a 4" air disk and Whisper (I think 3000 but it might be 2000) air pump, but the frogs and the tadpoles don't seem to mind.



I hope others can answer your questions.

[applestar]

We are watching the tadpoles develop by bringing them in the house and keeping them in this simple set up. There are maybe 1/2 dozen tadpoles in here and at least 3 of them have tiny feet/toes sticking out next to their tail.

[imafan26]

My neighbor had a concrete pond that he made but it had just one fish in shallow water. The whole thing was shaped out of concrete and I think the deepest was maybe 6 or six inches, no plants no cover for the fish. He had to drain it and clean it every couple of weeks but it was definitely not a balanced pond.

[applestar]

[applestar]

The frogs are awake

[applestar]

It's raining pretty steadily today, so no gardening outside.

I was looking out of the window at the pond and thinking about what I want to do, including building the airlift pump skimmer/waterfall. Last year, my plans hit a snag when I discovered the snake hiding in the fold of the liner where I wanted to dig.

Yesterday morning when I was watering (for no reason as it turned out ), the snake slithered out from under the insect screen hoop tunnel protecting the Asian greens in the SF&H bed, so it does roam around. DD saw it on the patio a little while ago.

Those Green Frog are GONE. Have not seen them for a week or more. Don't know if they decided to go walkabout, something went wrong with the pond water ecology (it looks very clear) or the snake ate them all one by one... or maybe the heron that overflies my garden once in a while on its way to the community pond about a mile away stopped by for a snack? Maybe it was raccoons?

[ButterflyLady29]

I can verify that snakes do eat frogs and toads. I had a toad hanging out around my back door one year. One day I walked out the back and saw the poor toad hanging part way out of the jaws of the large resident garter snake. I cried. But life happens and unfortunately that is part of it.

Raccoons and herons also are fond of frog dinners.