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Seananers
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bonsai newbie

hello to all the bonsai experts out there. I want grow a bonsai tree but I don't know where to start. here are my questions and concerns:
1. what is a good fast growing tree to start with that I can keep inside for a good portion of the year?

2. how long can I keep it indoors?

3. can I grow the tree from seeds?

ANY advice would be very much appreciated

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rainbowgardener
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There are many good indoor bonsai species. What you are looking for is a tropical or sub-tropical tree or shrub, that is used to growing year around and preferably grows as an understory tree, so it doesn't need full sun.

Some popular ones include ficus/fig tree (many varieties), sageretia/chinese plum, serissa/snow rose, podocarpus/Buddhist pine, olea/ olive tree, gardenia, carmona/ fukien tea. Any tree will benefit from a vacation outdoors in the summer, but these are trees that could be kept in year around if you needed to.

But no, I don't think starting from seed is a very good way to get to bonsai. You understand that the idea of bonsai is to create a miniaturized tree, that gives the illusion of a large, old tree that somehow shrank, not to be a baby seedling in a pot. Here's a good example:

Image

A lot of what creates that illusion is a trunk that is thick relative to the size of the tree. Here is what a two year old ficus seedling looks like:

Image

Even though they have this in a bonsai pot, to my mind it is not a bonsai, just a seedling in a pot. The proportions are all wrong, of trunk diameter to height and of leaf size to everything else.

To make a proper bonsai from a seedling requires just putting it in the ground or in a large pot and letting grow for 5-10 years until it gets some trunk girth.

Much better to buy yourself an actual tree or shrub to start working on.

tomc
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If I was just starting out, and wanted to grow something that would grow fast enough to give me a little something to train and prune, but not be a budget buster, I would buy a little English ivy cutting in a pot.

It will need to be tied up to give it more verticality. I use a shish-kebaab skewer.

It will need top pruning about monthly. It can live in Ohio (zone 6-A) from May 15 to about October 15 out of doors. The rest of the year it lives on a lighted table in my dining room.

Ivy has waxy leaves which make it a better indoors (in the winter) choice. As always grow your tree away from heat registers.

I give away most of my ivy to disabled people who want something to garden on with. Most leave home here before their fifth birthday. Likewise with rosemary cuttings.

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Seananers
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Thanks for the replies. but one more quick question. are dwarf jade trees suitable for indoors?
Last edited by Seananers on Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

imafan26
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Sakura has large leaves when it is in leaf and is bare half the year. It only really lookse good when it is in bloom. It can be made into bonsai but it is not a beginner plant

Beginner bonsai
Ficus
Schefflera
jade
Geometry tree
lucky bamboo
pony tail palm

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Seananers
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one last thing: do some bonsai trees grow fruits? because I saw somebody who had a fig tree bonsai.

tomc
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In order of ability to be reduced. Internode length, leaf needle size, are easier to do. Bloom size and fruit size, not so much.

So, if only a fruit tree will do, select trees that have smaller fruit. Key lime, vs grapefuit, crab apple, vs jonathan.

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Seananers
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so a fig tree would work since they have small fruits ?

tomc
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Actually, no they don't have that small of fruit.

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Seananers
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tomc wrote:Actually, no they don't have that small of fruit.
Really? from what I have seen their fruits are pretty dang small.

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rainbowgardener
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Here's a fig tree bonsai with fruit:

Image

makes it very disproportionate.

Here's the website that came from: https://www.biodiverseed.com/post/119382 ... ver-seen-a

Note that this "common fig tree" although it is a ficus is a different species from the typical ficus bonsai. I had a ficus tree of the type they bonsai (probably a ficus benjamina), that was a full size tree. I grew it for about 15 years, until it was brushing the ceiling. It never once blossomed, much less fruited.

By contrast, here's a crabapple bonsai:

Image

The tiny crabapple fruit are much better proportioned to the minature tree size.

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Seananers
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Thanks for the explanation RBG. :D

imafan26
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Kinsu oranges, calamondin, dwarf pomegranate will fruit. Figs will fruit from cuttings in a 1 gallon pot, but a potted plant does not make it a bonsai. Cherry banyans are a type of ficus that is often made into bonsai and the fruit is small and proportionate. Some flowering plants are made into bonsai as well. I saw a magnolia bonsai, it was beaustiful, except the plant was about a foot tall, it was leafless and had 4 very large blooms.

Good selections for bonsai are older trees or even nursery stock that has small leaves. If you want fruit or flowers it is better that they are small too. Deciduous and short lived shrubs and trees do not make very good bonsai. Trees and shrubs must have fairly flexible branches and not be brittle. Brittle branches cannot be easily trained. Trees can be slow or moderate growers. Bonsai can live for many years so you want a long lived plant. Some trees and shrubs have the potential to live for hundreds of years and a good bonsai can be passed from one generation to the next. Fast growers will be hard to contain and while very slow growers bonsai well, you will need patience since it will take a lot of time to work them.

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Seananers
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imafan26 wrote:Kinsu oranges, calamondin, dwarf pomegranate will fruit. Figs will fruit from cuttings in a 1 gallon pot, but a potted plant does not make it a bonsai. Cherry banyans are a type of ficus that is often made into bonsai and the fruit is small and proportionate. Some flowering plants are made into bonsai as well. I saw a magnolia bonsai, it was beaustiful, except the plant was about a foot tall, it was leafless and had 4 very large blooms.

Good selections for bonsai are older trees or even nursery stock that has small leaves. If you want fruit or flowers it is better that they are small too. Deciduous and short lived shrubs and trees do not make very good bonsai. Trees and shrubs must have fairly flexible branches and not be brittle. Brittle branches cannot be easily trained. Trees can be slow or moderate growers. Bonsai can live for many years so you want a long lived plant. Some trees and shrubs have the potential to live for hundreds of years and a good bonsai can be passed from one generation to the next. Fast growers will be hard to contain and while very slow growers bonsai well, you will need patience since it will take a lot of time to work them.
well as far as patience goes I've got all the time in the world to wait for the small tree to become gorgeous and trained. I mean I'm only 13 years old so once more I have plenty of time to devote to making a full blown bonsai.

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rainbowgardener
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" I'm only 13 years old so I have plenty of time to devote to making a full blown bonsai." :D

Indeed!

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applestar
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There are really a huge number of "fig" (ficus) species and the bonsai you saw is probably not the familiar edible fig but something with small fruits and leaves -- ficus microcarpa or maybe misletoe fig?

imafan26
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Bonsai is an art, and at age 13, you have plenty of time to master the craft. The lesson you have to learn the most is patience. Choose your tree carefully, you want one that has character. Fruit and flowers are not the main attraction, the trunk and branch placement is much more important in bonsai. It takes time to look at a tree and envision what it can become. Most people choose a tree and then pick a style, but most beginners think of the style they want and try to make a tree look like it. Some trees are more amenable to certain styles than others. It is easier to go with the style that best fits the tree than the other way around. Bonsai masters take a lot of time studying a tree to decide which branches should be kept, which to cut, and where to cut to get the branch to bush out in the right direction. Most bonsai trees are trees that should be living outdoors most of the year. If you want an indoor bonsai, you will have to limit your selection of genera. Putting a tree in a pot does not make it a bonsai. Chopping the top off a tree willy nilly isn't either.

To answer your other question, sakura cherry blossoms are edible and they do produce fruit, but they are primarily ornamental and you have to be careful since you cannot eat them in quantity as they contain coumarin. Sakura are bare most of the year, they are not pretty trees when they are not in bloom. They are in bloom for about 2 weeks a year. In Hawaii, they bloom around February but the Okinawan ones can bloom later. The weather has to be just right for the trees to be full of flowers. In warm years blooming is sparse.

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Seananers
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rainbowgardener wrote:" I'm only 13 years old so I have plenty of time to devote to making a full blown bonsai." :D

Indeed!
yes quite :)

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Seananers
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imafan26 wrote:Bonsai is an art, and at age 13, you have plenty of time to master the craft. The lesson you have to learn the most is patience. Choose your tree carefully, you want one that has character. Fruit and flowers are not the main attraction, the trunk and branch placement is much more important in bonsai. It takes time to look at a tree and envision what it can become. Most people choose a tree and then pick a style, but most beginners think of the style they want and try to make a tree look like it. Some trees are more amenable to certain styles than others. It is easier to go with the style that best fits the tree than the other way around. Bonsai masters take a lot of time studying a tree to decide which branches should be kept, which to cut, and where to cut to get the branch to bush out in the right direction. Most bonsai trees are trees that should be living outdoors most of the year. If you want an indoor bonsai, you will have to limit your selection of genera. Putting a tree in a pot does not make it a bonsai. Chopping the top off a tree willy nilly isn't either.

To answer your other question, sakura cherry blossoms are edible and they do produce fruit, but they are primarily ornamental and you have to be careful since you cannot eat them in quantity as they contain coumarin. Sakura are bare most of the year, they are not pretty trees when they are not in bloom. They are in bloom for about 2 weeks a year. In Hawaii, they bloom around February but the Okinawan ones can bloom later. The weather has to be just right for the trees to be full of flowers. In warm years blooming is sparse.
thanks for the advice man that was really helpful :D. in all honesty I really wasn't to interested in the fruit and flowers I was just a bit curious. I'll take all this into consideration when I get my tree.

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Seananers
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applestar wrote:There are really a huge number of "fig" (ficus) species and the bonsai you saw is probably not the familiar edible fig but something with small fruits and leaves -- ficus microcarpa or maybe mistletoe fig?
yeah I looked up other fig bonsai's and I'm pretty sure the one I saw was a mistletoe fig :)



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