Dying Chinese Elm - Request for Help!

[kamrankhan]

Hi,

I recently acquired a chinese elm bonsai a year ago and had been caring for it thoughout the winter and it was faring really well. I used the submersion method of watering as that was recommended to me from the person I acquired it (but researching into it now, I see that it is not the best way?) Also, with the submersion method, we mistakenly left it submerged for long periods of times (a few hours!).

I had started fertilization using liquid fertilizers once a week and watering as when we saw it needing water. A month ago, we noticed that it was losing leaf cover quite a bit! (in summers here in the UK). Looking it up I realized that leaving it in water for long periods of time might have caused root rot and since it was shedding leaves at quite a pace and drying it, I decided on an emergency repot to clear out the rotten roots.

I did not prune the roots though. Also, I found the soil used was very dense and the whole roots were deeply compacted. Also, the soil was very fine which upon reading up is not the best? I decided to go 25% peat + 75% akadama and have repotted it.

The issue is that the elm is starting to lose leaves and dry out still (if a quicker pace if not the same!)...Should I take it out into the garden for extra sunlight to help it recover? Attached are a few pictures now. as you can see the leaves are growing yellow and most of them are dry.

Any advice would be much appreciated to help me save my tree please! I understand there have been some grave mistakes made in caring for this in the past due to misinformation but I'm hoping it can still be saved..

Many thanks in advance.

Regards,
Kamran

[rainbowgardener]

Well, you are right that you have pretty much done everything wrong so far. Submerging is ok for watering, but just for a couple minutes, just long enough to get all the soil wet, not drowning it for hours. And the drowning is especially bad when you have dense, moisture holding soil that will stay wet for a long time. What you want is mostly inorganic and very free draining. And an elm tree belongs outdoors, summer and winter, all the time.

It might have died anyway, just from going through the whole winter and following seasons with no dormant period. Elms are temperate trees, that need to have a chilling period of cold dormancy. Without that, they eventually just get exhausted and die.

I don't know enough about bonsai to know if your tree can yet be saved. Perhaps one of our real bonsai people will come along with further suggestions about trying to revive it. What did you find when you repotted? Were the roots dark and mushy (rotted), or white and firm?

Where are you located?

[kamrankhan]

Hi rainbow gardener,

Thanks for your reply.

I am in the UK so we do get cold seasons here...even if its indoors. I did find 2-3 black mushy roots that I removed but the rest of them were healthy white and firm which is why I'm hoping it can still be saved!

The tree seemed like in full bloom on the winters, which did leave me confused so it could probably just be its exhausted from that? What can I do to help it recover in this case?

Thanks again!

[rainbowgardener]

sorry duplicate post

[rainbowgardener]

It was blooming because indoors in warm in winter, which triggered all the wrong responses, blooming when it should have been resting in dormancy, contributing to exhausting it.

I don't know enough about bonsai to say anything about if/ how it can be saved. Since he hasn't come by, you can try Private Message to Gnome, who is Moderator for bonsai. Here's a thread he is on:

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 28#p309228

Just find one of his posts and push the P. Msg button.

give him the link to this thread.

[kamrankhan]

Thank you. The tree has been outside a couple of days now but no change...hope its just a case of being too soon.

Just tried to PM Gnome but apparently I don't have permissions to private message people yet since I'm a new member...don't really want to highjack his thread just to catch his attention!

Any possibility if you could PM him please? would be much appreciated!!

Thanks again,
Kamran

[rainbowgardener]

done

[Gnome]

Kamran,

The submersion method is not an issue in the short term, only if your use it exclusively. Even a few hours in water once should not be fatal, where you get in trouble is when you water too frequently on a consistent basis. Try using the chopstick method to determine when to water, a description can be found here.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... =36&t=1479

Are the pictures shown before or after you re-potted it? The soil seems really dense and soggy which is a problem. I would find a spot outside where you can leave it alone. Monitor the moisture in the soil carefully and wait. Not much else you can do now.

Try nipping the tip from a branch and look for green tissue, that would indicate that it may still recover.

Norm

[kamrankhan]

Hi Norm,

The pics are after reporting. The soil is soggy because the pictures were taken right after watering. I am using the chopstick method now and careful to have free drainage and not to water until required.

Regarding the soil, should I loosen it up somehow? Its even less than 25% peat and mostly akadama.

It had a few live leaves until a few days ago. Ill check by nipping a branch...it does look like that the thin branches have dried out. Should I check on a thicker branch?

Many thanks for the advice!

Regards,
Kamran

[Gnome]

Kamran,

Regarding the soil, should I loosen it up somehow? Its even less than 25% peat and mostly akadama.

Not sure what you can do to loosen it up now since it was just re-potted. As far as peat goes, unless it was very coarse it was probably not a good move. The fine particles tend to clog up the spaces between the others. I don't use akadama preferring to utilize domestic materials but it seems that there are different grades available, some softer, some harder.

It had a few live leaves until a few days ago. Ill check by nipping a branch...it does look like that the thin branches have dried out. Should I check on a thicker branch?

It's not really necessary, just a little test. If it had leaves recently the chances are good it will recover if you are careful about your watering practices. Look closely for small buds at the locations of previous leaves.

Norm

[tomc]

--><8 snip 8><--

Regarding the soil, should I loosen it up somehow? Its even less than 25% peat and mostly akadama.

It had a few live leaves until a few days ago. Ill check by nipping a branch...it does look like that the thin branches have dried out. Should I check on a thicker branch?

Many thanks for the advice!

Regards,
Kamran

I think you may have broken down that akadama (clay) by immersion. Causing anoxia (drowning).