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rainbowgardener
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best indoor bonsai?

Having finally gotten my toes in to bonsai with my dug up from the flower bed burning bush, I am planning in the spring to buy myself a pre-bonsai. What I would like is something that will do well coming in for the winter, probably a tropical evergreen.

My quirks - ficus is boring, I have a 6' indoor ficus, don't need a bonsai one. Similarly with shefflera/ umbrella tree. I don't like the look of compound leaves in a bonsai. Flowering would be nice, but not required.

So things I am considering include grewia, nandina, sagretia, serissa, podocarpus, brush cherry, white jasmine, kumquat, olive, or ...???

What do people think?

evtubbergh
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Wild Olive is great. What about a Wisteria or a Coral Tree?

Dillbert
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indoor tree?

plastic. works very well.....

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rainbowgardener
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then why do we even have an indoor bonsai section? it only exists to tell people don't do it? I know temperate trees aren't indoor, but I have a houseful of tropical plants/trees all winter (not bonsai) including the 6' ficus (which I have grown since it was a few inches high sitting on a window sill), an angel trumpet (which I started from seed and is now about 5' tall and wide), shefflera and others. If they will grow and thrive in big pots, indoors for the winter, I don't see why they couldn't be indoor bonsai in winter.

Here's what wiki says:

"Indoor bonsai are bonsai which are cultivated for the indoor environment. Traditionally, bonsai are temperate climate trees grown outdoors in containers. Kept in the artificial environment of a home, these trees weaken and die. But a number of tropical and sub-tropical tree species will survive and grow indoors. Some of these are suited to bonsai aesthetics and can be shaped much as traditional outdoor bonsai are."

I like the idea of being able to see my tree. I am not outdoors in winter.

evtub - thanks for the suggestions. Olive is one of my considerations and I do love the look of wisteria bonsai. I wasn't familiar with Coral Tree, so I looked it up. Sounds like a possibility, but maybe a bit more difficult to work with than some, difficult to get leaf reduction. But nice berries:


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https://exporters.com.vn/data/Products/3 ... 0BT029.jpg

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applestar
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I'm surprised you're not getting more replies :?

I'm not the right one to answer this one since I'm still "just looking", but my impression of best indoor bonsai candidate is a relatively easy "house plant" with smaller leaves to begin with and relatively tight growth/internodes. You are obviously and wisely trying to avoid the temperate trees that are ALWAYS described as not thriving indoors and need to be grown outside all year and wintered outside with protection as needed.

You've mentioned that you want to keep and grow the plant indoors during the cold months, but you would vacation it outside during the warmer months, right? So you want to avoid anything that needs "winterization" in marginal temperatures (above freezing but maximum 40's to low 50's) and stick with something like Zone 9+ or even 10+ "semi-tropicals" but if your house is cold during the winter -- say low 50's the true tropicals (Zones 11-12?) that should be kept in the 60's or above will suffer.

Citruses will bloom better in the 50's and take pruning well, so kumquat might be a good candidate. Sweet olive, culinary olive, and jasmine... What about bougainvillea? (bonsai folks call them "bougie" :lol: ) *Maybe* Indian azalea that is not cold hardy. ... I still think some small-leaved hot peppers could look good as bonsai. :wink:

I'm sure there must be others that are true trees and fits the stricter definition of Bonsai. I wouldn't dismiss ficus just yet since there are so many ficus species and they are very diverse species. :D

Hmmm... Pomegranate may fit -- When I asked a while ago, Gnome recommended that they should be subjected to brief winterization by putting them in my unheated garage after leaf-fall, then brought indoors before the garage temp drops below mid-upper 20's to experience about two months cold (I think he said before or around New Years should be sufficient). This year the winter has been mild-ish again and my indoor areas have been crowded so I haven't brought them inside yet, but I checked them yesterday and they are still alive, and upper branches touching the light fixture and warmer have sprouted leaves. :roll: Mine are grown from seeds from store bought pomegranate fruits, but you can get dwarf cultivars that will probably have better growth structure for Bonsai.
Last edited by applestar on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gnome
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RBG,

I, like AS, would not rule out Ficus so quickly. Have you considered a Willow Leaf Ficus? The narrow leaves give an entirely different impression than the more common F, benjamina.

As an experiment I once brought a dormant Chinese Elm inside around Christmas fully intending to take it back out in spring. This method worked OK. This would allow you to keep it outside most of the year but still have something inside for those dreary months late winter/early spring (Jan-March) months. Quality lighting would be critical though.

One more possibility would be Portulacaria? Certainly not a traditional species but I have seen some very nice examples. But again, mine are outside all summer which is where they do the lions share of their growing.

I also have a Scheff. (I know your are not convinced) grown in the root-over-rock style that I have not shown here for a while. Perhaps I'll try to update the thread this weekend.

Norm

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rainbowgardener
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Definitely all the house plants go out for the growing season, so would my (so far theoretical) indoor bonsai. I had a jasmine for years that came in for the winter, out for the growing season, but stayed out in the fall until temps got down in to the 40's. That seems workable. My house is usually about 60 at night and when we are at work, so tropicals would probably be ok too.

OK, I will look some more for interesting ficus. I don't like the look of the ginseng ficus with the swelled up roots. Just personal preference. But clearly ficus is an easy tree to keep indoors for the winter. Also not a fan of jade plants. But thanks for the idea about the Chinese elm. That expands my thinking some. I am used to lighting my indoor plants. And I have seen some Chinese elm bonsai that are amazing/ beautiful. I like the very simple straightforward ones:

Image
https://www.bonsaitreegardener.net/wp-co ... Bonsai.jpg

Partly I suppose it will depend on what I can find as a nice pre-bonsai, when I'm ready in the spring. Don't want to buy it until I can start with it outdoors. Thanks everyone

tomc
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I don't have much (or particularly good) indoors space for trees. Here is a list of the ones I couldn't not buy. YMMV

Olive (olea europa)
TX Ebony (pithecellobium flexicaule
Indian azalea (rhododenrum indicum)
Christmas cactus
Rosemary

Mine come in, in october, and go out in May.

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rainbowgardener
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nice list!

That's the same schedule my house plants are on.

tomc
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I am a patsy for trees that do stuff. Like...

Open and close leaves, (and bloom) TX Ebony

Bloom, tender azalea (indicum)

Bloom, christmas cactus

Bloom, and good in cooking rosemary.

Live (as far as humans are concerned) for ever, olive, bi-color leaves.

A black pine, or a fig just sit there and be green. Its just not enough.

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manofthetrees
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there is kingsville boxwood they can be left outside to go dormant or kept inside in high light levels and have small wite fowers
acacia are different and their leaves fold up at night, but have thorns .
fukien tea has white flowers and is tropical
willow leaf ficus ( ficus nerifolia/salicifolial) are IMO the best looking ficus
bougainvillea have great flowers and are a zone 9/10 plant so no freezing needed :wink:

tcjewell
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Hello,

I see you don't care for Ficus Micrcarpa, especially one of mine, "Umbilicon " no problem , Good luck with Bonsai, perhaps try one of these I done in the past , I'll never post something other than my own work. These are Fukien Tea. Bougainvillea , and yes another one of my Ginger Ficus , that was sold to folks in Europe and took the long trip across the Atlantic." Doing bloody good , as they told me " Good luck
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Jewell
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I know some find ficus varieties boring, but my little specimen of ficus retusa started in 1996 has been an easy, trainable, hardy candidate in a sunny, cool east window. Although in need of root pruning (roots have escaped bottom of pot and leaves have enlarged) and trimming it keeps itself well. It is less than 12" x 12". Sorry for the poor quality of the photo.
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imafan26
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Bonsai are usually trees and outdoor plants. But some of the low light shrubs might work

Gardenia (veitchii or radicans) are smaller gardenia that can be grown as an indoor plant.
Coffee is an understory tree so does o.k. in less than full sun. The leaves are large though.
Jade

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rainbowgardener
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Bonsai purists! :)

We have a whole forum here devoted to Indoor Bonsai, many of which are trees, some of which are shrubs which can be trained in the bonsai aesthetic.

Yes, temperate trees do not do well indoors. But there are many non temperate trees as I am sure Hawaiian gardeners are aware.


Here's a selection of just a few of the many books that have been written on the topic of Indoor Bonsai:

Indoor Bonsai for Beginners: Selection - Care - Training by Werner Busch

Indoor Bonsai by Paul Lesniewicz

Growing Bonsai Indoors (BBG Guides for a Greener Planet)

I don't know why I have to keep defending the fact that there are such things as indoor bonsai trees! :)

Raiza
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Placing bonsai plants in our indoor spaces will add greenery and make our minds feel soothed. I have added various kinds of preserved bonsai trees such as Juniper Bonsai Jumbo and Conifer Stardust into my office last year.

Yes, I would suggest you add bonsai plants to your office and home decors to create a relaxing environment indoors.

imafan26
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In the mainland they do grow grow a few tropical trees as bonsai. Usually Junipers do not do well indoors, but other pines might do o.k. if you have enough light. Jade is much less fussy about light. Chinese elm is a bit more cold tolerant. Gardenia and azalea are also possible since you grow them as house plants. Although I don't consider them bonsai, anthuriums are often grown on pieces of lava rock and succulents on driftwood. Bamboo also makes a good bonsai for a forest bonsai, schefflera (umbrella tree), and my enemy Fukien tea actually is a good bonsai. I just don't want it all over my yard.

Nandina is a good bonsai. It does tolerate shade, I don't know, I never tried it. My friend has a 20 ft tall and wider one in the ground growing behind her garage. Citrus trees can also be made into bonsai They usually use the smaller ones like kinsu, finger limes, and kumquat, but I would think they would require high light. Coffee might make a good bonsai, it is an under story tree so does well in dappled light. The leaves are smaller than gardenia, unless you use gardenia radicans which has smaller leaves to start with.

I have seen magnolia bonsai. It is deciduous so it looks dead when the large leaf drops. In Japan for the chrysanthemum festival, they actually train the chrysanthemum like a bonsai for the show.

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TreesEasey
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There are lots of species that can be grown indoors, from very easy to very challenging and experience matters.

People almost always overestimate their skills and underestimate the skills and conditions needed to keep the more challenging.

That said, people should try to kill cheap plants and avoid really nice stuff until they stop killing cheap plants.

The most common cause of death to houseplants is buying a species that you don't have adequate growing conditions for.

Reading up on a species you fall in love with AFTER you buy it is not a good sequence.

The proper process is: fall in love; go home and investigate as best you can; make a decision based on facts, not your heart.

People who have successfully conquered Figs can go on to other things.

If you are a beginner, Figs are for beginners.

There are hundreds of varieties from very small leaves like Ficus benjamina 'Too Little' (many varieties);

F. burt-davyi, South African Fig; F. microcarpa which includes Tiger Bark, Green Island, and Green Mound; F. Orientale, Oriental Fig; and F. salicifolia, Willowleaf Fig; Ficus benjamina, and lots of others with overlapping names.

Ficus retusa is an abused name and is applied in place of F. microcarpa, et al, too many to name.

Almost every woody plant can have the size of foliage reduced by half, or better.

The problem with plant names is the explorers in the middle ages "discovered" plants, brought them home and to their other colonies and named them.

So the same plant can have an English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, etc. name, and also a name whence they were discovered, and a name in the language of where the other colony was.

You can see the problem with names.

Back to figs. Any idiot can grow figs, and most do.

They can also be killed (see sentence #2, above).

They can stand some drought, some lousy light, and still do well if over-watered.
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imafan26
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Most people don't realize that bonsai are really outdoor plants and do better outside. Some plants can be kept inside but others just can't. If you are going to try an indoor bonsai, you do have to have the right lighting or have artificial lights.
I keep bonsai out in the sun in the yard. They need lots of sun, and water because of the shallow compact root space. If I bring it inside, it is only for a few hours to enjoy it in the space, then it goes right back where it was and it should face the same direction as it was before.

If you are going to try an indoor bonsai, I would not look for the typical outdoor bonsai species. The reason that ficus works is because it can be kept as an indoor or outdoor plant. For an indoor bonsai, I would use a plant that can live indoors or are tropical under story plants that don't need to be in full sun. Gardenia, azalea, jade, shefflera, Fukien tea, coffee, Chinese Elm.

Tropical plants can work as indoor bonsai because they don't need a winter dormancy and are often kept as houseplants in temperate climates. They do however, need to have temperature, light, humidity, air movement and attention to their water needs.

The best bonsai candidates have a reasonably long life span. Some shrubs will not have the life span of trees. Roots need to be able to tolerate pruning. Smaller leaves will be more in scale to the overall size of the plant. Plants need to have reasonably pliable stems and have a good branch structure.

Remember in bonsai, the goal is to make it look like a miniature version of a very old tree that shows the mark of time. Leaves are not interesting. Blooming bonsai are, but it is hard to bloom an indoor bonsai. Outdoor bonsai can bloom. The beauty of a bonsai is the structure, the roots, the aged look of the trunk and the grooves, twists and turns of the branches and signs of stress, like simulated lightening strikes, "windswept", and slanted forms. All these different styles have names. Variegated or textured bark are other interesting features.

I don't like mallsai, but some people do. Nature has few serpentine trunks, branches bending in odd directions, or sheared. Bonsai do not need bridges, little people or other objects to live on them. Stones, and moss is o.k.

I keep some plants as topiary. The difference from bonsai is that topiary usually has geometrical or whimsical forms that are almost never found in nature. Bonsai celebrates nature and tries to reproduce it in miniature.

I have a few Euphorbia cotinifolia (Caribbean copper plant) that I keep as topiary. I usually keep them as a ball. Their mature foliage is a red bronze color, but I like the vibrant red of the young foliage. My neighbor has the same plant and people don't realize that it is the same plant, because he allows his plant to grow in its natural shape.

Junipers do not make good indoor bonsai, but they are excellent for the outdoors. If you keep them outdoors, you may have to put them in a temporary pot or it will crack the bonsai pot.

When I select a pre-bonsai. I look for a plant that has good structure. You actually have to keep it awhile and live with it and you have to look at it very carefully to expose and train the structural parts. Over time, the plant ultimately will tell you what it wants to be. It is best not to go against its natural tendency but instead to enhance what it already wants to do. The other reason not to dive in and why a lot of mallsai die are because they still need to be acclimated. Small changes in light and water will cause big changes in the plant. That is what usually happens with the ficus. They don't tolerate changes in light well so when they are taken from high light to low light, they think winter has come and they drop all of their leaves.

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TreesEasey
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Without getting picky, I need to mildly disagree that bonsai foliage is secondary. I come to bonsai as the natural extension of gardening, not art or an oriental background, so I like trees that look like trees and while great age is a great possession, it's harder to obtain here in Detroit. This is a secondary farm state, mostly flat landers and the growing conditions here promote growth, and was for the most part clear-cut of timber around the turn of the century, ~1900. There is very little of the old, scrubby stuff that rough terrain has. Trees here grow straight to the sky, so collecting is limited. We do have good Eastern White Cedar, Thuja occidentalis, but I hate the form because it is impossible to train into anything graceful. That should tell you what I like as bonsai, and it makes collecting in nurseries more palatable, too. I firmly believe that people should have bonsai in forms that pleases them rather than other people or the experts. It takes a lot of effort and time, -especially time, and you should be pleased with what you put your efforts in. I respect those who cherish old and knurly, and those who live near rough terrain have a leg up collecting that kind of stock, and people who come from an artistic background, or have an affinity for the more formal Japanese standards, -they have what they like. There's room for all of us.

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Yes, I believe there's room for differences, too. 😉

Thanks TreesEasey for making that point!



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