ficus retusa woes

[kennb]

Hi,

I have this lonely little ficus retusa for a few years that was always a "charlie brown christmas tree" as it was kinda ugly, but it had leaves and branches and an interesting looking trunk and I thought was rather unique. Over time it's lost a lot of it's leaves, the branches have died, and it keeps getting worse. I water it when the soil is dry and it was getting better for a while, but I didn't do it much good last year when I thought I should repot it into a bigger pot, which caused it to lose a lot of it's roots, because I'm an idiot and broke up the big clump of dirt and roots when I removed it from the original pot and most of the roots broke off. It didn't seem to be getting any better, maybe a little worse in the new pot. So this spring I put it back in it's original pot and mixed potting soil with some bonsai stuff (sorry don't remember the name) which helped keep the soil loose. Unfortunately about a week ago I had a fan in the window it was sitting next to and the fan jumped out of the window and knocked it over, knocking it out of the pot. The tree has little to no roots now, and is probably destine to finally die if I don't do anything about it. It has a grand total of three leaves and about two live branches left.

So I'm wondering if I can take it out of the pot, put it in a clear container with some water and try to root it like any other plant, maybe with a tiny amount of fertilizer? I live in an apartment so I can't put it in a window that gets a lot of sun, but I do have a window that gets a good 4-5 hours of direct sunlight throughout the day. I'd be willing to put up some kind of grow lights to help it along.

I'm really trying to save this poor thing but I'm running out of ideas. I understand they're rather hearty, at least until I get my hands on one!

Also, I'm rather happy to say I have two out of five seeds of Japanese pine trees sprouting in a pot. I'd like to attempt to move them to proper starting containers, like I should have done when I planted them. Honestly I didn't think they'd sprout, but their situation isn't ideal and I'd like to get them in a more ideal setting where I can stick a light on them, maybe even a humidity controlled case. I think I can get them out with a big spoon and keep what little there is intact. They're so tiny right now I barely noticed them.

Any help would be appreciated! I'm very new to this.

[kdodds]

Disappearing roots are more a sign of root rot then anything. Rather than subject the tree to a full on bath, I'd get it in free draining bonsai soil (no potting soil). You haven't said what kind of light this tree is getting, but my guess is "not enough". F. retusa that get enough light are extraordinarily difficult to overwater. So, you might also want to put it outside in a shaded location, gradually moving into part to full sun. The pines DEFINITELY need to move outside. They'll die indoors, likely not even making it through the first winter.

[kennb]

Disappearing roots are more a sign of root rot then anything. Rather than subject the tree to a full on bath, I'd get it in free draining bonsai soil (no potting soil). You haven't said what kind of light this tree is getting, but my guess is "not enough". F. retusa that get enough light are extraordinarily difficult to overwater. So, you might also want to put it outside in a shaded location, gradually moving into part to full sun. The pines DEFINITELY need to move outside. They'll die indoors, likely not even making it through the first winter.

I figured the disappearing root problem is the fact I did a crappy job re-potting it last year followed by getting bowled over by a box fan a couple of weeks ago getting knocked completely out of the pot, and the soil.

It sits in front of a window all day, but I live in an apartment on the third floor that faces west so it gets direct sunlight starting at about 2pm until it sets.

I have some of this:

https://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/product177.html

Mixed with the potting soil right now. I have enough left to re-pot it again using only that and I'll get a light set up on it, and the pine trees.

[manofthetrees]

kdodds it totaly correct on the lighting .my retusa are under a growlight 16 hours a day what you are providing isn't nearly enough. I cut branches and pot them leaving them wet for a month or 2 and they root every time.so overwatering is almost impossible ive seen them grown in buckets with no holes sitting in water (not recomended).
repot with the new soil ,get yourself a clip on desk lamp and a full spectrum 40watt cfl bulb . keep the light no more than 1 foot above the tree and have it shine straight down . hopfully this will help

[kennb]

kdodds it totaly correct on the lighting .my retusa are under a growlight 16 hours a day what you are providing isn't nearly enough. I cut branches and pot them leaving them wet for a month or 2 and they root every time.so overwatering is almost impossible ive seen them grown in buckets with no holes sitting in water (not recomended).
repot with the new soil ,get yourself a clip on desk lamp and a full spectrum 40watt cfl bulb . keep the light no more than 1 foot above the tree and have it shine straight down . hopfully this will help

Thanks I'll give it a shot!

[kennb]

kdodds it totaly correct on the lighting .my retusa are under a growlight 16 hours a day what you are providing isn't nearly enough. I cut branches and pot them leaving them wet for a month or 2 and they root every time.so overwatering is almost impossible ive seen them grown in buckets with no holes sitting in water (not recomended).
repot with the new soil ,get yourself a clip on desk lamp and a full spectrum 40watt cfl bulb . keep the light no more than 1 foot above the tree and have it shine straight down . hopfully this will help

So when you say full spectrum do you mean like a 5500k bulb? I might have one already

[kennb]

I just bought one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-2-Foot-Start-Light-System/dp/B0006856EQ/ref=pd_sim_lg_1

That way I can work on the retusa and anything else I want.

[manofthetrees]

not familiar with the kelvin thing,but they are designed to replicate sunshine. it shines the full light spectrum, my floresent tubes glow a pinkish purple. I picked them up at a hydroponics store but ive seen them in regular big box stores.

[kennb]

not familiar with the kelvin thing,but they are designed to replicate sunshine. it shines the full light spectrum, my floresent tubes glow a pinkish purple. I picked them up at a hydroponics store but ive seen them in regular big box stores.

Ok 5500K will glow a blueish white. You're bulbs must lean towards the ultraviolet spectrum.

I have a small spiral CFL in my kitchen that's around 5500K that should help get it started until my T5 kit gets here. Sadly I missed out on overnight shipping with Amazon and the holiday on Monday so I have to wait until Tuesday.

I'll probably pick up a couple more 5000K+ bulbs anyways and put one in the lamp in that bedroom. I prefer the light anyways. Since my computer is in that room and so is the tree, a light right above it plus the floor lamp on the other side of the room with a 5000K+ bulb in it outta do it just nicely.

[kdodds]

You figured wrong. Roots don't "disappear" any more than above ground wood and stems do. They rot. The most common cause is too much watering in slow draining soil. SOMETIMES, this is also in conjunction with poor growth above ground due to lack of light.

On lighting, spectrum is pointless when you're considering bulbs that are of inadequate intensity/PAR. T8s and T12s are useless unless they're inches from the leaves. Spiral CF bulbs are just about as ineffective. T5, T5HO, MH, MV, Sodium, those are what you're looking for when trying to grow trees inside without adequate natural sun exposure. All of my trees are in greenhouse windows facing south, east, and west, glass "roof". Still, some trees do not get enough light for adequate growth. Ficus retusa, fortunately for me, is not one of those.

Repotting a severely stressed tree yet again is really not going to solve anything unless it's the soil that's the problem. And, soil is only a problem if you're not watering as needed. Search "chopstick method".

FWIW, I've repotted hundreds of trees, many multiple times. For a healthy tree, this is almost never a problem. I've also had trees knocked over completely and sitting out for days out of the soil. A repot and a good soak is all that is needed to get most healthy tree back doing fine again. Never have I ever lost roots unless it's a root rot problem.

[linlaoboo]

u got a picture?

[kennb]

u got a picture?

Not yet I'll snap some later and post them.

[kennb]

You figured wrong. Roots don't "disappear" any more than above ground wood and stems do. They rot. The most common cause is too much watering in slow draining soil. SOMETIMES, this is also in conjunction with poor growth above ground due to lack of light.

On lighting, spectrum is pointless when you're considering bulbs that are of inadequate intensity/PAR. T8s and T12s are useless unless they're inches from the leaves. Spiral CF bulbs are just about as ineffective. T5, T5HO, MH, MV, Sodium, those are what you're looking for when trying to grow trees inside without adequate natural sun exposure. All of my trees are in greenhouse windows facing south, east, and west, glass "roof". Still, some trees do not get enough light for adequate growth. Ficus retusa, fortunately for me, is not one of those.

Repotting a severely stressed tree yet again is really not going to solve anything unless it's the soil that's the problem. And, soil is only a problem if you're not watering as needed. Search "chopstick method".

FWIW, I've repotted hundreds of trees, many multiple times. For a healthy tree, this is almost never a problem. I've also had trees knocked over completely and sitting out for days out of the soil. A repot and a good soak is all that is needed to get most healthy tree back doing fine again. Never have I ever lost roots unless it's a root rot problem.

I have a T5 kit coming on Tuesday. I do have an incandescent grow bulb I can get on it as soon as I can get a lamp. In fact I originally bought that bulb for the tree before I moved into my current apartment.

When I repotted it a few weeks ago I mixed potting soil and that volcanic mix I got from Bonsai boys, but I didn't layer it, I just mixed it all together.

I'll post some pictures later of the poor little guy.

Cut me some slack here, I'm trying to learn and save a tree.

[kdodds]

You don't generally want to layer soil, you did it right. Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were insisting that poor potting skills and the fallen pot were responisble. They certainly couldn't help, but the "root" cause is almost certainly rot.

[kennb]

You don't generally want to layer soil, you did it right. Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were insisting that poor potting skills and the fallen pot were responisble. They certainly couldn't help, but the "root" cause is almost certainly rot.

I figured both contributed to it's lack of roots, starting with the first time I repotted it. Honestly I never got a good look at it's roots so I don't really know what they look like, or if they had in fact rotted away before I ever pulled it out of the pot. All I know is there isn't much coming off it's little trunk(s).

[kennb]

Ok, embarrassing pictures of my sad little tree. More back story: It was purchased at WalMart and it did have the glued together rocks covering the soil. I removed those a few years ago so I could actually see the soil and sprinkle some bonsai fertilizer on it once in a great while.

Also I'll worry about the aesthetics of the pot once the tree is on the road to recovery

[img]https://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/kennb3/IMG_0361.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/kennb3/IMG_0362.jpg[/img]

The upper leaf took damage when the fan bowled it over and it's been getting worse. I should probably pluck it.

[img]https://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/kennb3/IMG_0363.jpg[/img]

It was planted up to the dark section until it's recent repotting.

[img]https://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/kennb3/IMG_0364.jpg[/img]

If your eyes are really good in the lower left corner of the pot you can see a tiny little green thing sprouting. From what I can tell it might be coming from the tree. But unfortunately the pot that I have the pine tree seeds in has two of those popping out of it, which is what I thought was the trees starting to sprout. Could be something in my potting soil.

[img]https://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/kennb3/IMG_0367.jpg[/img]

[kdodds]

Getting it into better soil, and providing enough light, should solve that fairly quickly (within a season or two), as long as it survives.

[kennb]

Getting it into better soil, and providing enough light, should solve that fairly quickly (within a season or two), as long as it survives.

Ok so should I do 100% of that bonsai soil mix?

[kdodds]

Now that I can see the pics... are those black areas on the roots soil or the roots themselves? They look to be the roots and they look to be most of the way to completely dead. You need to cut above the black (rotted) areas and get it into the bonsai mix. I would use JUST the mix, no additions at this point. Stick a chopstick in the pot and water when it comes out dry.

[kennb]

Now that I can see the pics... are those black areas on the roots soil or the roots themselves? They look to be the roots and they look to be most of the way to completely dead. You need to cut above the black (rotted) areas and get it into the bonsai mix. I would use JUST the mix, no additions at this point. Stick a chopstick in the pot and water when it comes out dry.

It's the roots themselves.

Looks like I'm doing tree surgery this weekend!

[kennb]

So just to make sure I don't do any more damage than I've done already, given the roots are rather thick, should I just hack away at it with a serrated knife or a small saw? Either way I'm sawing away at it.

[kdodds]

If you don't have nice, sharp shears or cutters, sawing is your only recourse, but not with a hacksaw or serrated knife. Use a proper bonsai saw. They cost about $20, and even a cheap one will be better than a bread knife. If the edges come out rough, trim them clean with a clean razor. Dip the new cuts in rooting hormone and repot. If you can't do it the right way now, wait until you can.

[kennb]

Upon further inspection of the roots, here's what I've noticed. The darkness of the root appears to be more dirt than anything. Originally that is where the soil line was, so it was planted up to that area. The area is still quite hard like the rest of the tree, and upon lightly scratching away at it, it didn't seem like it was rotting away. So I'm not entirely convinced it's rotting. It's looked like that for quite a while, and it was bouncing back to life at one point before I moved to my current apartment (it did get more light at my last place).

So lets assume for a minute that it needs more of a gentle bath than an amputation, what if I removed it from the soil, cleaned it up with some water and light scrubbing, maybe cut off the very end of the roots, dip them in rooting hormone, then repot in bonsai soil mix and give it a good healthy dose of light? OR, just clean it up and repot it, without the amputation and rooting hormone? I'd really hate to hack off a considerable portion of the tree if it's really not rotting away. There is an itty bitty branch starting to grow off of it, so it's still got some life.

I'm going to go buy some rooting hormone and some sheers later today.

[kdodds]

If it's not rot, no harm no foul... but where are all of the feeder roots then? If you're not chopping off rot, there's no reason to root prune an unhealthy plant, Just rinse the roots before you put it in the bonsai mix. Scrubbing won't do anything more than score the bark or break off finer roots, so don't scrub. Get it into the bonsai soil and hope for the best.

[kennb]

If it's not rot, no harm no foul... but where are all of the feeder roots then? If you're not chopping off rot, there's no reason to root prune an unhealthy plant, Just rinse the roots before you put it in the bonsai mix. Scrubbing won't do anything more than score the bark or break off finer roots, so don't scrub. Get it into the bonsai soil and hope for the best.

Yeah that's the thing, it has no other roots. But it really doesn't look like rot. I was going to give it a gentle scrub with my fingers to get some of the dirt off of it and see what's really underneath.

I was going to buy it a new pot today but I couldn't find anything bonsai-looking that would do the trick. guess I'm ordering one with a humidity tray!

[kdodds]

There's not really anything "bonsai looking" suitable for stand up ginseng mallsai. I'd just use something large enough to get a few inches around on all sides, including below the roots.

[kennb]

Thought I'd update this topic: About a month ago I went to repot the tree and noticed that the roots did in fact have some rot going on towards the bottom. I used some sheers to cut off the rot, dipped the ends in rooting hormone, and potted it using a bonsai soil I got from bonsai boys in NY. Combine all of that with as much light as I can give it (natural and florescent) it's popping new leaves like crazy! It's also starting to grow at least three new branches. It appears to be one happy little tree again!

I'm using a bamboo skewer to monitor the moisture level in the pot as well. It's still not much to look at, but it's starting to bounce back!

My green thumb seems to be working on some lucky bamboo I have as well. I had one starting to rot away so before it completely died I cut off the two little shoots it had and they've been doing a fine job rooting as well.