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wayne barnier
- Full Member
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:05 pm
- Location: Lapeer, Michigan
Indoor bonsai lighting tips
Hello everyone!!Was wondering if anyone could tell me of a good indoor lighting system for bonsai's?I live in Michigan,and the winters can get pretty bad!!I am looking to light 4 bonsai trees(7-12 inch pots)and would like to do it with one fixture if I can!Can you suggest something,and a good place to buy a it?Thanks, Wayne
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
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- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Wayne,
First you should know that although I do end up bringing a lot of things inside for the winter, I really am just trying to coast through winter. I tell you this so you can weigh my advice.
I guess you need to decide how important strong growth is as compared to simply surviving inside. If you intend to grow indoors in a serious way (meaning serious money) you should look to the specialty lights. BTW that's not a technical term just my way of differentiating between regular old fluorescents and other types of lighting.
The simplest and cheapest would be conventional fluorescents. A 4' shop light would probably keep 4 trees reasonably happy. Keep them pretty close to the light and you'll do OK, if not spectacular. You should avoid conventional incandescent bulbs as they put out way to much heat compared to the amount of light returned. In other words, you can't get them close enough to do any good and besides their color (wavelength) is not ideal.
In the past if you wanted to step up that meant going to HID or high intensity discharge, of which there are several types. These would be Metal Halide or High Pressure Sodium. Therese are probably still the best lights for indoor growers but they do have their drawbacks. The chief one would be expense, both to purchase and to operate. These lights are actually more efficient at converting your dollars into usable light (not including initial costs of course) than a shop light would be. A very crude way to put it would be although you may spend twice as much in electricity costs you get four times as much light back. I just made up those numbers but you get the idea.
More recently a form of high intensity fluorescents have become available. They are not cheap either but seem to offer the best of both worlds. I don't know a lot about these so I'll leave it at that. Just so you know about them as you continue your research.
As a point of curiosity, Jerry Meislik is a well known bonsai grower from up your way who made the decision to stay indoors 100% If I recall, he decided it just was not worth it to him to drag all his stuff outside then a few moths later turn around and drag it all back in. We're talking tropicals here BTW. Here's his site, there is a lot of good information there for indoor growers.
Norm
https://www.bonsaihunk.us/
First you should know that although I do end up bringing a lot of things inside for the winter, I really am just trying to coast through winter. I tell you this so you can weigh my advice.
I guess you need to decide how important strong growth is as compared to simply surviving inside. If you intend to grow indoors in a serious way (meaning serious money) you should look to the specialty lights. BTW that's not a technical term just my way of differentiating between regular old fluorescents and other types of lighting.
The simplest and cheapest would be conventional fluorescents. A 4' shop light would probably keep 4 trees reasonably happy. Keep them pretty close to the light and you'll do OK, if not spectacular. You should avoid conventional incandescent bulbs as they put out way to much heat compared to the amount of light returned. In other words, you can't get them close enough to do any good and besides their color (wavelength) is not ideal.
In the past if you wanted to step up that meant going to HID or high intensity discharge, of which there are several types. These would be Metal Halide or High Pressure Sodium. Therese are probably still the best lights for indoor growers but they do have their drawbacks. The chief one would be expense, both to purchase and to operate. These lights are actually more efficient at converting your dollars into usable light (not including initial costs of course) than a shop light would be. A very crude way to put it would be although you may spend twice as much in electricity costs you get four times as much light back. I just made up those numbers but you get the idea.
More recently a form of high intensity fluorescents have become available. They are not cheap either but seem to offer the best of both worlds. I don't know a lot about these so I'll leave it at that. Just so you know about them as you continue your research.
As a point of curiosity, Jerry Meislik is a well known bonsai grower from up your way who made the decision to stay indoors 100% If I recall, he decided it just was not worth it to him to drag all his stuff outside then a few moths later turn around and drag it all back in. We're talking tropicals here BTW. Here's his site, there is a lot of good information there for indoor growers.
Norm
https://www.bonsaihunk.us/
Last edited by Gnome on Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wayne barnier
- Full Member
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:05 pm
- Location: Lapeer, Michigan
Thanks, when you say conventional(regular shop lights)what do you mean?Do you mean to stay away from the colored bulbs?If I do go with a conventional fixture how many watt bulbs should I use?I am currently using a 100 watt blue floresent bulb,but I don't seem to be putting out what I need!A lot of people said they don't use colored bulbs,and don't no nothing about them!And yes I am looking for more of a get me by in the fall and winter months!But at the same time,I am looking for something to keep them looking halfway nice,and not just keeping them from dying!I understand during these months in Michigan they are not going to look like they would in spring or summer,but it would be nice to enjoy them in the down months as well!!Thanks, Wayne
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5122
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Wayne,
Perhaps first we should take a step back. I should have asked in my earlier reply but what type of plants are we talking about here? I ask because many of the species commonly grown as bonsai have no business being inside for more than a day at a time and certainly not for the entire winter. Of course there are species that won't tolerate your winters either. Sorry if I am pointing out things you are aware of but we get all sorts of growers here, some experienced and some less so.
By conventional shop lights I simply meant 4' fluorescent fixtures that can be found in shops and garages. They are not very attractive but they are relatively inexpensive. You can get one (without the bulbs) for about $10.00 although ones that cheap are not terribly well made. I once got one that consistently burned out one bulb.
Consider these a minimum type of lighting arrangement. These are what I use to get my succulents through the winter but they are not strong enough to promote really good growth.
Check this site out, they offer many different options including, conventional fluorescents tubes, high output fluorescent tubes, high output compact fluorescents and HID or high intensity discharge incandescents. I can't personally endorse this site as I have never purchased from them, this is just to show you what is available.
https://homeharvest.com/lightingmain.htm
You can get by, on the cheap, with a shop light, two bulbs and a timer for probably around $30.00 Or you can go to whatever lengths you wallet will allow. As in anything else though, you get what you pay for.
Norm
Perhaps first we should take a step back. I should have asked in my earlier reply but what type of plants are we talking about here? I ask because many of the species commonly grown as bonsai have no business being inside for more than a day at a time and certainly not for the entire winter. Of course there are species that won't tolerate your winters either. Sorry if I am pointing out things you are aware of but we get all sorts of growers here, some experienced and some less so.
By conventional shop lights I simply meant 4' fluorescent fixtures that can be found in shops and garages. They are not very attractive but they are relatively inexpensive. You can get one (without the bulbs) for about $10.00 although ones that cheap are not terribly well made. I once got one that consistently burned out one bulb.
Consider these a minimum type of lighting arrangement. These are what I use to get my succulents through the winter but they are not strong enough to promote really good growth.
Check this site out, they offer many different options including, conventional fluorescents tubes, high output fluorescent tubes, high output compact fluorescents and HID or high intensity discharge incandescents. I can't personally endorse this site as I have never purchased from them, this is just to show you what is available.
https://homeharvest.com/lightingmain.htm
You can get by, on the cheap, with a shop light, two bulbs and a timer for probably around $30.00 Or you can go to whatever lengths you wallet will allow. As in anything else though, you get what you pay for.
Norm
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wayne barnier
- Full Member
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:05 pm
- Location: Lapeer, Michigan
Hello again, thanks for all the info!!I have a chinese sweet plum,Fukien tea tree,black olive(I know several people have told me for the last few years that the black olive would not live indoors,but here we are 2 years later and its doing fine!!)and I also have a dwarf pomagrante,Kingsville boxwood,crape myrtle!The last 3 are mame,shohin size!I am using a couple of colored floresent 100 watt bulbs,but sorta want to up grade for the fall and winter months!Wouild like to use just one fixture if possible?Thanks again everyone,all you suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!! Wayne
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CharlieBear59
- Full Member
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:43 pm
- Location: La Veta, Colorado 81055
Hi Wayne..I recently decided to grow my Chinese Elm indoors 24/7 due to circumstances outside my control. Here is a link where I found a plethora of indoor grow light information including technical comparisons of lumens per watt / heat / etc. [url]https://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/lights.shtml[/url]
As such I have begun using a T5 flourescent fixture and my Elm has responded so favorably. I found it on Amazon after researching to select the type bulbs and fixture best suited. It was under $50 and included the bulb, stand, ac line w/switch etc..all you need to 'let there be light'. In the past few months of my Bonsai research and study I have seen many instances of conflicting information and advice between successful growers. Some insist "always grow tree outside - or it die." Others have posted photo albums of 20 years of indoor Bonsai growing under 'shop lights'. I look forward myself to becoming a proficient indoor Bonsai artist and helping and encouraging others to do likewise and if they need to grow indoors.
"if all world do Bonsai then........no more war."
As such I have begun using a T5 flourescent fixture and my Elm has responded so favorably. I found it on Amazon after researching to select the type bulbs and fixture best suited. It was under $50 and included the bulb, stand, ac line w/switch etc..all you need to 'let there be light'. In the past few months of my Bonsai research and study I have seen many instances of conflicting information and advice between successful growers. Some insist "always grow tree outside - or it die." Others have posted photo albums of 20 years of indoor Bonsai growing under 'shop lights'. I look forward myself to becoming a proficient indoor Bonsai artist and helping and encouraging others to do likewise and if they need to grow indoors.
"if all world do Bonsai then........no more war."