nkniehues
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My Juniper Bonsai is drying out-needles falling off....

I water my Bonsai (Juniper) almost daily (the man that sold it to me told me to let it dry out each time before watering but it did not seem to do very well when I did) I try to set it outside at least once a week but we have had some very cold weather lately... I am trying to figure out why the needles are drying out and falling off- I have been keeping the plant moist at all times. We run a humidifier in our home 24/7 so it is fairly humid (about 45% humidity most of the time). We recently moved from Wyoming to Nebraska and I am wondering if it could be the water?? Does anyone know what the proper water pH should be for a bonsai?

MysticGardener67
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it is a difference in water quality.

45% hunmidity sounds good for us but not for plants, they like it more in the 60-70% range. Ummm..

You have to be really carefull about watering any plant, let alone a beloved bonsai. It is very easy to fall into the 'death by kindness' mentality by watering more and more often if the plants are showing stress. Leaves shrivel or needles drop and we think 'needs more water'.

The roots on most plants need to breathe. They need oxygen. Plant's don't actually transport oxygen through thier vascular systems. If you don't allow the soil to dry a bit, the roots drown, then rot. if there arent enough roots to transport water to the rest of the plant, then the foliage will suffer from water deprivation wilting and dropping. But we think, oh it needs more water. This only makes it worse.

Ummm.. where is your Bonsai located? is it near any heat source, like radiator or floor vent? the microclimate near these features is MUCH warmer and drier than you rthink.

I am not particularly well versed in Bonsai in particular. But a plant is a plant and they all behave in generally the same way. And the cure for thier ills are pretty much the same.

I think you might want to take a look at your little tree's roots. slip it very carefully out of it's pot and inspect the root system. they should be happly little white, grey or light brown roots. Smell the soil, if it smells of nice sweet soil, then you are good.

If the roots are soft and black or if the rootball smells nasty and acrid, then you have overwatered. If this is the case, then you will need to do a pruning to remove the rotten roots and repot in fresh mix.

If the roots are fine, then you have a humidity issue. as I said at beginning of post 45% humidity is still terribly dry, especially for Bonsai who have a limited root system to begin with.

what you need is a pebble tray. any sort of container that is low and flat , say, about the size of a rectangular cake pan, fill with gravel, pea gravel, crushed gravel, marble chips, whatever you think is pretty, fill the pan 1/2 to 3/4 of the way with the pebbles and fill with water. Water should come to just below the surface of the pebbles. You don't want to set your Bonsai IN the gravel/pebbles, just sitting lightly on top.

It is also normal for conifers to shed needles as part of thier normal growth. Needles get old and die naturally, but instead of droppign all at once, they do so fairly much continually.

Is kinda hard to judge how much water is too much for most folks. I go by weight. I lift my plants by thier pots, if the pots seem heavy for thier size, then I leave it alone, if it seems light, then I know it is time to water.

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Gnome
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nkniehues,

Every year around this time we get a group of questions regarding 'indoor junipers' The sad truth is that Junipers should be dormant outside now but retailers disregard the nature of the tree in favor of a sale.

Not to dispute Mystic's advice on watering, which I largely agree with, but I feel that the problem is even more fundamental, this tree simply should not have been kept indoors.

From the description you have given I have real concerns that your tree is going to pull through. Once the needles begin to drop off the tree is probably already dead.

Junipers are able to retain their foliage and appear to be healthy for some time after they are in distress, think of how a Christmas tree looks alive long after it is dead.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If you would like to grow indoors there are much better options.

Norm

Victrinia Ridgeway
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Bonsai horticulture is more complex than general plant horticulture. Under normal circumstances if you root pruned a juniper at this time of year without having a proper aftercare set up (which is pretty much a high humidity, mildy warm greenhouse) you'd kill the tree plain and simple.

Sadly as Gnome has said, the tree is likely already expired. I'm very sorry that you were misled in this fashion. Telling people to put a juniper in the house, is akin to asking a seal to live in the dessert. Sure they can get around on land, but they'd cook.

Trees in generally have no business living in a house. People get confused by that fact. Even with so called "indoor" species, you have to recreate their outdoor living enviornment indoors to get a healthy tree. It's more difficult than it sounds, and involves a lot of pitfalls when not done correctly. If you want trees in your house, be prepared to do a very careful dance to keep them alive.

I will comment that it is not often that a bonsai enthusiast still has their first tree.... please don't be discouraged by losses. I think it was John Naka who once said... the path to bonsai is paved with dead trees.

If your tree has died, just know that it happens... don't beat yourself up about it, just try and learn from it. As the years go by, the losses do get smaller but in the begining they are inevitable. Believe me, while I still have my first, I have lost others who were far more valuable.


I hope you'll try again...

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

maveriiick
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Victrinia Ridgeway wrote:Bonsai horticulture is more complex than general plant horticulture. Under normal circumstances if you root pruned a juniper at this time of year without having a proper aftercare set up (which is pretty much a high humidity, mildy warm greenhouse) you'd kill the tree plain and simple.

Sadly as Gnome has said, the tree is likely already expired. I'm very sorry that you were misled in this fashion. Telling people to put a juniper in the house, is akin to asking a seal to live in the dessert. Sure they can get around on land, but they'd cook.

Trees in generally have no business living in a house. People get confused by that fact. Even with so called "indoor" species, you have to recreate their outdoor living enviornment indoors to get a healthy tree. It's more difficult than it sounds, and involves a lot of pitfalls when not done correctly. If you want trees in your house, be prepared to do a very careful dance to keep them alive.

I will comment that it is not often that a bonsai enthusiast still has their first tree.... please don't be discouraged by losses. I think it was John Naka who once said... the path to bonsai is paved with dead trees.

If your tree has died, just know that it happens... don't beat yourself up about it, just try and learn from it. As the years go by, the losses do get smaller but in the begining they are inevitable. Believe me, while I still have my first, I have lost others who were far more valuable.


I hope you'll try again...

Kindest regards,

Victrinia
These comments are so true. I lost my 1st bonsai, a Juniper, because it kept it indoors and had no idea how to care for it. I've lost a few others, but fortunately only 2 Sageretias and some cuttings. I have many "indoor" trees, but I've created a simulated environment with broad-spectrum fluorecent lighting, large humidity trays that the trees sit on and a fan that runs for most of day over them. I use to think indoor bonsai were easier to care for, but outdoor or hardy trees are probably easier (I.e. less set up concerns). The only drawback with outdoor/hardy trees is that you cannot truly enjoy them over the winter period as they are dormant.

Victrinia Ridgeway
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Outdoor trees are far and away easier, because you aren't contending with getting a tree to live in our enviornment. I have dozens of outdoor trees and one "indoor" tree... which has taken up residence for the winter in a fabulous greenhouse where I work. It limped through last winter in my house where I did my best to make it happy, but I am deeply relieved it's not living in my house this winter. It's a massive bougie with a 14 inch trunk, so it's happiness means I am fine with living without it for the winter.

I also think people don't realize that the trees should be put outside at the earliest safe opportunity. So they can have a good growing season.

As to the winter enjoyment. I bring a variety of trees in the house for a day to enjoy their winter view, and put them back out at the end of it. In fact I would counter that in Japan, winter is considered the optimum viewing period for bonsai above all others for exactly that reason.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

N8tyvLuvz
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Thank you for the 411, I was specifically told by the seller to keep my bonsai inside the home, in the window ceil and water every four days. It started to grow some new growth and I thought it was very pretty. I let it it grow awhile but I am a tad busy through the week, I suppose it was the week it was left unattended then, in which case I brought it in and thought it may have needed some water and watered it every day for the next 3 days. so theres no point in me trying to save her?? I thought maybe if she was transplanted she might have a chance or is she dooped? what a shame. Should I still check the roots, perhaps?

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rainbowgardener
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Really too bad about all the unscrupulous / ignorant sellers out there giving totally wrong advice, guaranteed to kill the bonsai they just sold.

Juniper is NOT indoor bonsai and will die if kept indoors for any length of time.

You never want to water bonsai on a schedule. Water when it needs it, based on chopstick method (put that in the search box above). Watering every day is killer to most plants.

Without a picture or more info, there is no way to tell if your juniper still has a chance. If it is mostly brown or if it has dropped many needles, it is probably not worth trying. Junipers tend to die in slow motion from the inside out. By the time it is showing significant damage, it is probably already dead and past rescue.

If your tree is green and not dropping needles, then it has a chance (though no guarantee). Do some reading in the Bonsai Learning Section, https://www.helpfulgardener.com/bonsai/ , put it in good bonsai soil (very free draining, gritty/gravelly, no peat moss) and put it outside. Do not start by putting it in full sun, since it has been indoors. It will need to gradually get used to full sun. Water when it needs it. Do NOT fertilize unless/ until it is putting out new growth.

Best Wishes!

Bouquet
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Thank you I’ve found the forum very helpful. Just one more question as Bonsai is very new to me. I live in PERTH western Australia and my Juniper has been outside ever since I became its proud owner. Our weather although not too humid is very hot at times would this be effecting it. I’ve been watering it each day only small amounts but from the comments feel I am killing it with kindness. Any feedback would be much appreciated thank you

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rainbowgardener
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How long back was it you got your juniper bonsai?

Watering small amounts every day is all wrong and is not exactly killing it with kindness, which would be large amounts daily. When you water your bonsai, you should always water it thoroughly, either pouring water through from the top until it runs freely out the drain holes or sinking it into water up to the soil line. Then you should not water again until it needs it.

Here's some bonsai growing tips, including how to water: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1479



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