Sagaretia needs help. He's a bit miserable. - Updated

[SteveP]

Hi Guys, new to all this, be gentle

I was at a Garden Centre the other day, and fell in love with a little Sageretia Theezens (to the point of going back the next day and buying it).

He's a little bit miserable, soil like a block of wood, mildewey leaves, but trying his best to grow heartily. I think that's what impressed me. Half-dead, but still making a break for the sunlight! Apparently, he's about 3 years old.

I've learnt what I can, bought loads of books, obsessed on the Internet, and I'd love you guys' input.

So far I've :
- Made a makeshift greenhouse to help up the temperatures a bit, and to hopefully hold humidity in better. (if anyone's interested, it's two clotches glued together with the bottom cut off. If you put the cut-off bits over the top, you can make little vents. Works brilliantly!)
- Chopped off most of the mildew-y leaves, and treated with a fungicide.
- Added a Bonsai food to the twice-daily water, only a small amount, 0.5ml/L.

Here he is :

[img]https://www.lockipedia.co.uk/bon/bon1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.lockipedia.co.uk/bon/bon2.jpg[/img]

The problems I've got :
1. I've ordered some Akadama soil, and given how upset this tree is/was (he's definitely happier now), I'd like to bin this soil ASAP. Good idea, or should I wait until winter/early spring?
2. Some of the leaves are brown, and clearly dead. The ones that are doing quite well are great, but in between, there's some with brown-ness starting from the back of the leaf, and continuing forward. Am I right in thinking that this is due to past under-watering?

Thanks in Advance for any help saving this little chap... and BTW, great resource this, I've just spent two hours happily browsing away!

Cheers!
Steve

[kdodds]

Sorry I can't help more on Sageretia. This is another one of those species (along with Serissa) that come highly recommended as "traditional" indoor bonsai in a lot of books. But, it's a species, along with Serissa, that I've found very tough (for me impossible) to keep alive long term.

[SteveP]

heh, cheers anyway mate... Must admit, I'm not convinced that this one's gonna make it without help. still, going to try!

[maveriiick]

Give rainwater if possible. Sageretias prefer acidic water of pH 5.5, and allow the top 1cm of soil to dry before watering. Be warned, sageretia is a more difficult type of tree to care for, and as such is usually problematic for many. I have one that is doing great, one that is so so, and one that is not doing so well.

[SteveP]

thanks mate! Thankfully it's pouring down at the moment, so I'll sling a bucket out overnight ↲Sounds like I've been overwatering a bit too.↲Not going to do any harm adding a bit of feed in, is it?

[maveriiick]

Try Miracid.

I read somewhere that Sageretia do well with this feed. It's for acid loving plants, and I think the composition is 30 10 10. Try it once a month. Others may recommend something else.

[SteveP]

miracid, check. I'll get on ebay when I get in. Can I show my ignorance, and ask what the numbers refer to?

[maveriiick]

miracid, check. I'll get on ebay when I get in. Can I show my ignorance, and ask what the numbers refer to?

Read here:

https://orchidplanet.com/culture/fertilizer.htm

[SteveP]

cheers mate I'm a hydroponics chap, actually using conventional gear is odd! If you need any info that way, I'll happily repay the favour!

[SteveP]

Right, thanks for all the help, my Sageretia is now coming round Could still die off horribly, but we have growth, new leaves, and an all-round perkier appearance!

Check the difference!

[img]https://www.lockipedia.co.uk/bon/25102009017.jpg[/img]

For the UK people who haven't figured this out yet, Miracid is 'Miracle-Gro Azalea' over here...

[djlen]

Hey Steve, that plant looks 100% improved over the first pics. you posted.
Good work with it!!

[Rosaelyn]

Wow, Steve. Your tree looks fabulous now! In about two and a half weeks you have totally turned around this lil guys chances to be a happy, healthy tree!

[SteveP]

Thanks guys! Yeah, I'm really happy as well! It's not out of the woods yet, but definitely a noticeable improvement...

Interestingly, I think the makeshift greenhouse helped... it's 50% humidity here normally, they get a misting twice a day to help, but when the Sageretia was in the plastic, I just watered the dish and let the humidity do the rest, it was static at 90/95% for two weeks..

This is all *very* stressful lol

Steve

[djlen]

Hi Steve -

I just got a Sagaretia myself and have been doing a lot of research.
The humidity is very important for them as is the dosing of Miracid or similar.
I've also found out that they propagate readily from cuttings either placed in moist vermiculite, turface or even just stuck in a glass of water. So when you're pruning it try putting your cuttings into a class of water, set it on the windowsill and you should see roots in 2 - 3 weeks time.
One of the sites I've seen says that it likes a cool period during the day as well, or an unheated room over night.

[SteveP]

Excellent advice, thankyou

This soil isn't helping matters, it's incredibly tricky to get the watering correct with it being so utterly compacted... it's currently at 18-22 degrees and 50% humidity, but going to try upping that this week with a wireframe three-sided canopy. (I quite enjoy playing like that!)

Definitely going to try propagating some cuttings next week as well I think

Cheers!
Steve

[djlen]

I just let mine dry out a bit......not totally dry and then water until the water comes out the drainage holes in the bottom. I do this with all plants.

BTW, I just re-potted my Sagaratia and it's doing great. I don't think it matters, the time of year with them. If you're unhappy with your potting mixture, pull him out and re-pot with a lighter mix. I like 50/50 Turface/Potting soil. I like the aeration and ability to force out harmful gases when watering that this give the plant.

[SteveP]

Success! *touch wood* Repotted with 50% akadama, 50% organic potting soil.

To my surprise, no visible root rot, but the original soil just looked like a peaty blend, nothing special. Far FAR better on the drainage front now though, before I only got a couple of drops out of the bottom before water pooled on the surface, now it goes through beautifully.

Fingers crossed, and it's back in the humidity tent lol

Thanks for your help mate, much appreciated.

[Rosaelyn]

Was your Sageretia very rootbound? Either that or soil collapse was probably the culprit. Glad to hear there was no sign of root rot, which would have been a concern of mine too, without it draining adequately.

Keep us up to date, and how is your Podocarpus doing?

[SteveP]

I missed this reply, my apologies!

I think the cause was 50/50 of what you suggested. I chopped off a fair whack of roots, and the results have been great. Looked like Bin Laden's beard under there.

And the Podo is doing.. okay.. The soil is utter utter junk still, and getting worse by the day, but until the tree shows signs of suffering, I daren't touch it!

How's yours?

Edit for pics and for proof for DjLen that I'm having a go at propogating! :

[img]https://www.lockipedia.co.uk/bon/PIC_0065.JPG[/img]

Not the greatest pic I know, but I'm always on here at night when I think of these things It really is 3 times+ the size of the original sad Sageretia that I brought in, and all thanks to you lot.

[img]https://www.lockipedia.co.uk/bon/PIC_0069.JPG[/img]

We'll see Len, we'll see ;P

[djlen]

Steve, it's a matter of attitude. If you sense success you will have it...lol
I love my Sag. and I can't imagine it not doing well for me. Such a happy, carefree little plant. I've got glasses with cuttings all over the place and they root easily....just be patient. I'm going to make a "Forest" bonsai out of them.
Just a really easy plant. Loves watering every other day (for me) and misting daily......it's just been watered as we speak.
I haven't let it get too much bigger.....I'm pruning and shaping and saving cuttings and waiting to see what it wants to look like. It doesn't need wiring....just cut to a node in the direction you want that branch/limb to grow.

I'm finding that the Podocarpus wants much more water than I'd originally thought. At least every other day. I'm feeding weakly with each watering and they both seem happy with that regimen.

One other thing I've discovered. Both of them like just a bit of MirAcid or Peter's for acid loving plants on occasion.

[djlen]

Here's my Sagetaria. Been pruning and trimming since I got it and it's starting to get some tree-like shape to it.

Head On:
[img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/IMG_2673a.jpg[/img]

From The Top:
[img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/IMG_2669a.jpg[/img]