FUkien tea-dead?

tsatsos007 · Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:54 am

hi all... I have a fukien tea (carmona retusa/ehretia buxifolia) basically bought bought from IKEA and trained since october 2008. at the beginning the tree seemed to have taken a months or so to adjust to my environment.. then poped out some nice flowers. Now and then I trimmed the tree a bit.. and watered as needed. the soil was organic. However recently I repotted to the same pot but different soil as I posted in the link below. The problem is.. there are some green leaves BUT they are dried out (some once touched fall,some others not!) I tried to keep the watering patterned the same as before. I must say as well that I cut smoe hard wooden root branches from below which seemed to be out of place and trimmed back some small ones. Most importantly I raised the entire tree a few mm above the soil (in hopes that a nice opposite of V-shape close to the end bottom would seem aparent). I guess the roots are not as deep in the ground as before.is that a bad thing? what s your suggestion?

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10794[/code]

Gnome · Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:51 am

tsatsos007,

However recently I repotted to the same pot but different soil as I posted in the link below.

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10794[/code]

I tried to keep the watering patterned the same as before.

The problem is.. there are some green leaves BUT they are dried out (some once touched fall,some others not!)

The problem is possibly that you did not adjust your watering practices to the new medium which drains considerably faster than the old one.

Did you use any organics, such as bark, in your new mix or did you use the Akadama 'neat'? Some growers use a 100% inorganic mix but usually tropicals have some organic component.

Norm

tsatsos007 · Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:17 am

I did not use any organics... just the akadama. so u suggest more water?

Gnome · Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:32 am

tsatsos007,

Since you changed the soil to one that drains/dries much faster, yes you should have adjusted your watering. I can't tell you from here how often to water you must monitor the soil and decide for yourself. The use of a humidity tray certainly would not hurt either. The soil is probably on the lean side for a Fukien but since I don't yet own one I am a bit out of my element.

This may help a little.
https://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/FukienTea.html

Norm

arboricola · Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:25 pm

tsatsos007 wrote:I did not use any organics... just the akadama. so u suggest more water?

Yes, you should never let a Fukien Tea get anywhere close to drying out.
They need the soil to be damp at all times.

If the roots dry out they will stop growing, lose leaves, and if not caught in time will seldom recover.

Water retention is the key with the Fukien Tea.

Fukien Tea and Chinese Elms are best grown in organic based soils.

Phil...

tsatsos007 · Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:12 pm

thanks I will make up for the watering and see what happens ...any more suggestions are welcome in the meantime

Cuda52774 · Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:29 pm

The same thing happened to my fukien. I re-potted from organic to mostly inorganic and the touchy little bugger didn't like it one bit. LOL.

It lost all it's leaves and pouted for about a month, but finally started putting out new leaves.

I don't think the problem you're having is with watering (although like Gnome said, you do have to make an adjustment) but I tend to water mine as soon as the top of the soil looks dry.

I suggest patience. If you're worried give it the scratch test. As long as you see green at the base of the trunk, just wait it out. You may want to slow down watering a little since you're not showing new growth. Like I said the top of the soil being dry is usually the best indicator for me.

BTW you can see before and after pics of my fukien here.

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13068&sid=d0dc97bc48af1dc30c323e5386c2b543

Good luck.

Cuda

tsatsos007 · Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:21 am

thanks for the advice... I did the soil test too. this soil is much better indication than the inorganic by the way. now I just spray it more often just to get humidity staying (I guess). I ll wait and see then. funny thing I must say that when I sprayed the leaves one turnedbrown at its tip!!

tsatsos007 · Sat May 02, 2009 4:58 pm

I see no improvement ! I just took off all the leaves since they were dried up! I water normally as if nothing has happened... any suggestions?
do u think that I have screwed up with the rooting system?some roots are not under the soil as I raised the entire tree more high

[img]https://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq349/tsatsos007/DSC01177.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq349/tsatsos007/DSC01175.jpg[/img]
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[img]https://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq349/tsatsos007/DSC01172.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq349/tsatsos007/DSC01171.jpg[/img]

IndorBonsai · Sat May 02, 2009 5:32 pm

The Fukien Tea is a tropical/mostly tropical kind of plant and need a good draining organic soil ( something that holds a bit of moisture around the roots for about 1-2 days ) the roots should never be allowed to become dry.
To me it looks like your tree needs a little bit more organic material in its soil, your roots may already be dried up and the tree dead, but try repoting in full sphagnum moss (not sphagnum peet moss) and your tree might recover. good luck

P.S. sphagnum moss has some kind of antibiotic or something that the roots of almost all plants like. I always use sphagnum moss when I have to do big root trimming because it works well ( most the time ) and I let the tree grow in the moss for at least a year before re potting into a mostly organic bonsai soil.
When using sphagnum moss always wear gloves and soak the moss in a bucket of water so it absorbs as much water as it can. Then pack it around the roots and in the pot tightly. When using sphagnum moss you wont need to water as often maby every 2-3 days, but with a tree that looks dead I would water it maby once a week and keep the tree in a lower light area till I see new growth then move it back to a brighter area.

So hope this helps and if not it still worth a try to save your tree

tsatsos007 · Sun May 03, 2009 7:30 am

I ll buy some mixed soil and repot soon. Let me ask u.. if it is dead how can it be saved? I cut a small branch just to see if green is still inside.. well there is something greenish...does that mean it s not entirely dead?

IndorBonsai · Sun May 03, 2009 1:02 pm

These trees are pretty tough it is one of the reasons that they are good for beginners and good for indoor Bonsai. I say if the branches are not dry and break off with a simple bend the branch test , your tree might still have some life left. Give re potting it a try and it might come back. It will probably take awhile. Remember don't over water it and don't fertilize it, try to keep the soil slightly moist and the roots warm about room temps 65-80. For some reason when I make starts from cuttings on the Fukien tea they root faster in a soil kept around 70 degrees Fahrenheit. So this might help.

It is always worth trying to save your tree worst thing that can happen is the tree is to far gone and wont come back, but sometimes they surprise you and come back to life, I love it when that happens

Good luck!!

tsatsos007 · Fri May 29, 2009 11:34 am

it s been since my last post that my bonsai has not revived! how long is long enough ? I am going to add some organic soil, which I haven t done so far due to mainly ignorance. watering has been done normally though!

kdodds · Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:07 am

If the twigs snap easily, long enough and discard it. IMO, Fukien Tea are nothing of the "easy" sort. I've yet to keep one going for more than a year. Then again, I'm still doing well with some trees that I should not be (Pine, indoors) so YMMV.

bonsaidavid · Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:38 am

The fact that there are no leaves on it mean there is something wrong - the FuKien is an evergreen tree.

It is because you cut a main root (as you said). I got told that if a main root is cut, the whole tree dies.

It isn't because you raised your tree, I raised mine and it's fine.

japanpsyhic · Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:01 am

Yeah, I agree with them. It looks to me that it is just about dead. I have had mine for a few months, and it is fine. The bark shouldn't look like that. Mine is tight to the tree, and healthy lookin. Yours looks loose/dead.
SORRY!!!

sisfor · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:13 am

Hi all, the tree I'm trying to save looks pretty much the same as tsatsos007. When I moved in the tree was extremely dried and left in its original soil for god knows how long. I took off the dead leaves and re-potted, in normal plant soil at first, then in bonsai organic soil. By doing more reading on bonsai (Fukien Tea) it appears that the soil should not be compacted so I again moved the tree and decompacted the soil. The branches do not break yet and remain a bit flexible, the top of the tree is green but the base is dark green. Also I elevated the tree I remember that I had trim the roots before repotting the first time. I hope I did not totally destroyed the root system. I am keeping the tray filled with water and the soil is not totally saturated with water but humid.

I am a bit confused, while the tree recover (if at all) does it need to be placed in lower light intensity and does fertilizer should be omitted?

Ideas any one?

japanpsyhic · Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:10 pm

Okay. I'd appreciate it if you post some more photos, so I'm up to date? By what you said, I would put some moss on teh area you raised the roots above the surface a bit? It would help to retain teh moisture. Also, keep the soil DAMP. It may die if you keep it WET, WET, WET. Try not to trim it, or wire it, or ANYTHING. I would let it cool down after all the repotting. That, plus nearly dying, would put it into shock.
Again MORE PHOTOS. I would like an overall, and close-ups on the trunk, raised roots, and what ever leaves you may have. I hope I help!!!

tsatsos007
sisfor: this highlight is info for you
THIS IS FOR BOTH

sisfor · Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:24 pm

Hi Japanpsyhic,

There are some pictures of the tree:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Sylvain59438/Bonsai#

Thanks for your help

arboricola · Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:55 pm

sisfor;

Keep in the shade, lightly water ( just damp), and bottom heat will help.

Phil...

sisfor · Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:13 pm

Ok thanks Phil,

I forgot to ask, since I'v already re-potted the tree twice and uncompacted the soil recently should I attempt to re-pot again using sphagnum moss? Maybe it will help as IndorBonsai mention? I really don't want to further stress the tree as it is certainly dying....

sheers....

arboricola · Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:38 pm

sisfor;

In a word; NO...

Phil...

sisfor · Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:55 am

Hi every one, it looks like there are some activity that I did not see a couple of days back.

It seam like there are some white little dots on the brown things where the leaves should be. Does that mean that growth is taking place once again?

https://picasaweb.google.com/Sylvain59438/Bonsai#5367200731078911538

japanpsyhic · Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:51 pm

I'm not sure about the white dots, but your tree looks like it can pull around. I would try to keep it out of direct sunlight, looks a little dry. Keep the soil MOIST, not wet. Maybe mist it once in a while. After a week or so, tell us about the progress of the tree. Hope I help!!