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Vanisle_BC
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Dwarf indeterminate tomatoes?
Does anyone grow dwarf indeterminate tomatoes - what info can you offer, if you do? I'd like to try in-ground indeterminates that would stay low; say 3ft. maximum.
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applestar
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First of all, I can’t say for sure, but most dwarf indeterminates I’ve tried (mostly from the Dwarf Project) grow to as much as 4~5 feet.
Some of these might be semi-determinate rather than true indeterminate.
The difference that I go by, and this may or may not be typical of determinate, but what you get are terminating inflorescences that grow suckers that terminate, and this continues on and on.
True dwarf characteristically have heavy rugose foliage that can be susceptible to disease unless you are disciplined about pruning inward growing leaves. (I don’t think they always tell you that)
They do seem to shut down when disease pressure and heat get to be too much. (I don’t spray, etc. with chemicals and not too heavily with organic either, so YMMV).
I haven’t followed the most recent varieties but the fruit size tend to be smaller. Some touted as larger fruited starts out big but get smaller (but that may be sustainable with more regular feeding than I usually manage)
Most Dwarf Project varieties take longer to mature and are better started a week to two weeks earlier (as soon as peppers are started).
…Victory Garden has a comprehensive description for each variety, but seeds are also available from other sources…
Some of these might be semi-determinate rather than true indeterminate.
The difference that I go by, and this may or may not be typical of determinate, but what you get are terminating inflorescences that grow suckers that terminate, and this continues on and on.
True dwarf characteristically have heavy rugose foliage that can be susceptible to disease unless you are disciplined about pruning inward growing leaves. (I don’t think they always tell you that)
They do seem to shut down when disease pressure and heat get to be too much. (I don’t spray, etc. with chemicals and not too heavily with organic either, so YMMV).
I haven’t followed the most recent varieties but the fruit size tend to be smaller. Some touted as larger fruited starts out big but get smaller (but that may be sustainable with more regular feeding than I usually manage)
Most Dwarf Project varieties take longer to mature and are better started a week to two weeks earlier (as soon as peppers are started).
…Victory Garden has a comprehensive description for each variety, but seeds are also available from other sources…
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Vanisle_BC
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- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)
. Oh, well ....I also have not seen a indeterminate that is under 2 ft.
New Big Dwarf, is an heirloom. A cross between Ponderosa and Dwarf Champion that is about 2 ft tall with large slicing tomatoes. But it is a determinate.
There are a few tomatoes in the dwarf tomato project that are under 3 ft. but as Apple stated, many of them have rugose leaves and some of the hybrids are not stable yet. These were developed for container gardens and many of them are crosses with heirloom tomatoes so disease resistance was not a priority.
Most of the tomatoes in the dwarf tomato project are a little taller up to 5 ft.
https://www.dwarftomatoproject.net/
New Big Dwarf, is an heirloom. A cross between Ponderosa and Dwarf Champion that is about 2 ft tall with large slicing tomatoes. But it is a determinate.
There are a few tomatoes in the dwarf tomato project that are under 3 ft. but as Apple stated, many of them have rugose leaves and some of the hybrids are not stable yet. These were developed for container gardens and many of them are crosses with heirloom tomatoes so disease resistance was not a priority.
Most of the tomatoes in the dwarf tomato project are a little taller up to 5 ft.
https://www.dwarftomatoproject.net/
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applestar
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You might try some of the semi-determinates. They keep producing if that’s what you are looking for, and with good feeding, pruning, and disease management they can be kept going for a long time.
I would put my Shimofuri(霜降り) in this category. And it can be considered “under” 3 feet if you are only thinking “height” because the weight of the fruit trusses and upward growing arching suckers make the vines lean and sprawl or cascade if you let them.
What kind of fruits were you looking for? Size? Flavor profile?
If you are looking for reds, I recall Beaverlodge Slicer surprised me last year by being acting more semi-determinate.
I can tell you more soon since I’m growing Beaverlodge Slicer and comparing with Bloody Butcher this year.
FWIW, our current favorite dwarf is Chocolate Lightning and possibly Blazing Beauty.
My DARxUtyonok isn’t even named yet because I’m not quite satisfied with what is to me the mild flavor. But it does more-or-less stay under 3 feet. We’ll see how this year’s growout performs.
And I wouldn’t put it past the FFSX line to stay under 3 feet, and if it can be held to the original Cherokee Purple type flavor profiles, as well as concentrating the foliage variegation propensity, it will be another winner in my book.
Most of my S7xA.F3 might stay under 3 feet. I’m selecting for micro-dwarf characteristics. Micro-dwarfs are usually determinate, but the segregates that are heavily influenced by the Shimofuri(霜降り) genome may express the semi-determinate traits.
I would put my Shimofuri(霜降り) in this category. And it can be considered “under” 3 feet if you are only thinking “height” because the weight of the fruit trusses and upward growing arching suckers make the vines lean and sprawl or cascade if you let them.
What kind of fruits were you looking for? Size? Flavor profile?
If you are looking for reds, I recall Beaverlodge Slicer surprised me last year by being acting more semi-determinate.
I can tell you more soon since I’m growing Beaverlodge Slicer and comparing with Bloody Butcher this year.
FWIW, our current favorite dwarf is Chocolate Lightning and possibly Blazing Beauty.
My DARxUtyonok isn’t even named yet because I’m not quite satisfied with what is to me the mild flavor. But it does more-or-less stay under 3 feet. We’ll see how this year’s growout performs.
And I wouldn’t put it past the FFSX line to stay under 3 feet, and if it can be held to the original Cherokee Purple type flavor profiles, as well as concentrating the foliage variegation propensity, it will be another winner in my book.
Most of my S7xA.F3 might stay under 3 feet. I’m selecting for micro-dwarf characteristics. Micro-dwarfs are usually determinate, but the segregates that are heavily influenced by the Shimofuri(霜降り) genome may express the semi-determinate traits.
Before TYLCV, I grew mainly indeterminates because of their long harvest season and fewer tomatoes ripening all at once. Indeterminates will last about 10 months for me before disease takes them out.
Now, I can only grow TYLCV resistant tomatoes, most of them are determinate, and a few indeterminates like red currant that are naturally resistant. If I want to grow a tomato that does not have resistance or has unknown resistance, I have to grow them in tree bags which can barely contain a five foot tomato ( pushing it).
I had always thought determinates would only produce all of the tomatoes at once and then they would be done. It is true, most of the flowers come out all at one time and the tomatoes are ready pretty much all at the same time as well. But, to my delight, I found that the tomatoes take a break and then flowered again. In the middle of summer they take a long break. Most of the ones that are TYLCV resistant are not heat resistant. They stop producing in the heat. I can get a second fruit set as long as the tomatoes do not get any major disease problems and the plants have lived up to 6 months. I have a long growing season so it does not matter if the days to maturity are 50 days or 85.
Now, I can only grow TYLCV resistant tomatoes, most of them are determinate, and a few indeterminates like red currant that are naturally resistant. If I want to grow a tomato that does not have resistance or has unknown resistance, I have to grow them in tree bags which can barely contain a five foot tomato ( pushing it).
I had always thought determinates would only produce all of the tomatoes at once and then they would be done. It is true, most of the flowers come out all at one time and the tomatoes are ready pretty much all at the same time as well. But, to my delight, I found that the tomatoes take a break and then flowered again. In the middle of summer they take a long break. Most of the ones that are TYLCV resistant are not heat resistant. They stop producing in the heat. I can get a second fruit set as long as the tomatoes do not get any major disease problems and the plants have lived up to 6 months. I have a long growing season so it does not matter if the days to maturity are 50 days or 85.