[Need Advice] Patty Pan Squash first time grow in Greenhouse.

[zufar]

Hello everyone. I'm trying Pattypan Squash for the first time. Do I need to manually pollinate the flowers in order for the plants to yield properly?

[applestar]

What is the variety you are growing? Unless it’s a special variety bred to be pathenocarpic, YES, you will need to hand pollinate.

It’s vital you check on them everyday — make note of female blossom that is likely to open the next day so you won’t miss it — they are only open for less than one day, and it’s best to hand pollinate by noon before the blossom closes.

That said, I have had partial success tearing open previous day’s closed female blossom and pollinating with today’s pollen from freshly opened male blossoms.

My impression is that there is better result if you use pollen from more than one male blossom.

Tear off the petals (tap any pollen into nearest open female blossom, then hold the male blossom like a wand, and gently apply the pollen in two or three available female blossoms per male blossom.

Make sure your greenhouse is properly protected with insect screen mesh over any vents, don’t leave the door open for any length of time, and check under the leaves for stinkbugs eggs (stinkbugs are expert at finding their way inside through narrow gaps) and keep sharp eye out for the colorful blue and orange squash vine borer moths, if these are pests in your area.

[zufar]

What is the variety you are growing? Unless it’s a special variety bred to be pathenocarpic, YES, you will need to hand pollinate.

It’s vital you check on them everyday — make note of female blossom that is likely to open the next day so you won’t miss it — they are only open for less than one day, and it’s best to hand pollinate by noon before the blossom closes.

That said, I have had partial success tearing open previous day’s closed female blossom and pollinating with today’s pollen from freshly opened male blossoms.

My impression is that there is better result if you use pollen from more than one male blossom.

Tear off the petals (tap any pollen into nearest open female blossom, then hold the male blossom like a wand, and gently apply the pollen in two or three available female blossoms per male blossom.

Make sure your greenhouse is properly protected with insect screen mesh over any vents, don’t leave the door open for any length of time, and check under the leaves for stinkbugs eggs (stinkbugs are expert at finding their way inside through narrow gaps) and keep sharp eye out for the colorful blue and orange squash vine borer moths, if these are pests in your area.

Here is a picture of the seeds packet attached. Also a picture of the seedlings. I am expecting around 300+ plants. If hand pollination is the only way then I guess I'll have to go for it. I'll keep you updated.

[applestar]

Wow. At that scale, I’ve heard you can buy packaged box of bumblebees to release in closed greenhouse for pollination — the one I saw was in the USA. Did you say where you are located?

On a smaller scale, for over a decade, a Japanese gardener has been catching large hoverflies with butterfly net and bringing them home in a DIY bug collection box to his home greenhouse to help pollinate strawberries during the winter — he keeps an eye out for them in the fall flower garden — I think he said they visit the margaret’s and mums.

…I mentioned him here
No bees - no strawberries - HelpfulGardener.com

…I thought I posted about the boxed bees somewhere but wasn’t able to locate it with a quick search….

[zufar]

Wow. At that scale, I’ve heard you can buy packaged box of bumblebees to release in closed greenhouse for pollination — the one I saw was in the USA. Did you say where you are located?

On a smaller scale, for over a decade, a Japanese gardener has been catching large hoverflies with butterfly net and bringing them home in a DIY bug collection box to his home greenhouse to help pollinate strawberries during the winter — he keeps an eye out for them in the fall flower garden — I think he said they visit the margaret’s and mums.

…I mentioned him here
No bees - no strawberries - HelpfulGardener.com

…I thought I posted about the boxed bees somewhere but wasn’t able to locate it with a quick search….

I'm from Mauritius Island. The bumblebees here are not sold in packaged box, but I'm sure there are some beehives nearby where I live very close to the main forest. I've pollinated tomatoes with a Blower before but will it work for the pattypan?

[applestar]

Squash pollination process is very different from tomato pollination.

Check out this discussion How to hand pollinate squash blossoms? - HelpfulGardener.com

[zufar]

Here is an update on my seedlings. These grow really fast!. Can I start spraying low doses Fungicides/Pesticides as a preventive measure ?. I also noticed they Patty Pans leaves are a yellowish green compared cucumbers. Is it normal?

[imafan26]

I could not find information on this variety. If it is a greenhouse or high tunnel variety, check to see if it is parthenocarpic. Even parthenocarpic fruit do better with some pollination. Honey bees are not the main pollinators of cucurbits. The main pollinator is a squash bee, which is a ground dwelling bee. The back up pollinator are the little carpenter bee, also a solitary bee. Honey bees do visit squash blossoms but they are there mainly for the pollen. They cannot reach the nectar sac with short tongues. They could pollinate squash flowers as they are usually around in greater numbers but they would not be as efficient as the squash bees.

https://www.ars.usda.gov/pacific-west-a ... llination/

[zufar]

I could not find information on this variety. If it is a greenhouse or high tunnel variety, check to see if it is parthenocarpic. Even parthenocarpic fruit do better with some pollination. Honey bees are not the main pollinators of cucurbits. The main pollinator is a squash bee, which is a ground dwelling bee. The back up pollinator are the little carpenter bee, also a solitary bee. Honey bees do visit squash blossoms but they are there mainly for the pollen. They cannot reach the nectar sac with short tongues. They could pollinate squash flowers as they are usually around in greater numbers but they would not be as efficient as the squash bees.

https://www.ars.usda.gov/pacific-west-a ... llination/

I've visited some outdoor planters and they are not sure whether it is Pathenocarpic. I'll stick to hand pollinating to be on the safe side. I might leave a few plants alone just to see whether they yield or not. I'll keep you updated on the grow.

Thank you for your support.

[zufar]

Update on my plants. They are getting bigger fast. Small flowers are starting to shoot but they look like male flowers only.

[imafan26]

It is normal for most bee pollinated plants to put out male flowers first. Male flowers take less energy from the plant to produce and they are there first to attract pollinators. Female flowers will come out later. If you have a regular variety the male to female ratio is about 5:1, at least for my squash. Parthenocarpic varieties will produce 90% female with male flowers being very rare except when the temperature rises above 85 degrees, then male flowers will dominate.

Preventive fungicides are a good idea, but in the high tunnel, and with sub irrigation and the plastic mulching, your leaves are not going to be wet. You also have good spacing for now. If you have good air circulation that helps. Unless you have high humidity as well, you could wait on the fungicides until conditions that promote disease occur. It also helps if the plant has good mildew resistance to start with.

https://portal.ct.gov/CAES/Fact-Sheets/ ... ery-Mildew

[zufar]

Thank you for all the tips. Just another little update. I'm starting to see more and more female flowers now.

I did find some of the older leaves hidden under the canopy with a little bit of powdery mildew. I clipped them off. How many squash can one plant yield during it's lifetime?

[imafan26]

I got 16 from Partenon. I am still getting squash from Dunja, over a dozen so far. It is not equal to what I actually harvest because most of my squash are getting stung.

[applestar]

Interesting question— I think variety would play a part in productivity. Generic unnamed may not be as productive as named hybrid developed to produce more and be disease resistant. Varieties developed for market production may produce all at once. Some varieties are developed for early maturity… etc.

…then other factors would include the distance apart the plants are growing, amount of light, water, fertilizer (and ratio of nutrients), etc growing conditions, their general health including fungal and other diseases and pests, and (back to variety) how resistant they are to these issues.

If it’s a market production variety, there might be “in a perfect world” data available somewhere.

[zufar]

One thing I've noticed. The female flowers looks like they are way ahead of the male ones. some of them are about to be open soon while the male flowers doesn't look too mature. Have you guys ever encountered these type of behaviour?

[imafan26]

You have a lot of plants and if they are planted at the same time, it is less of a problem except for the pollinator. It is an advantage for plants to have male and female flowers to open at different times. Remember the plant is only in the business of making flowers and fruit for survival of the species. The plant wants as much genetic diversity as possible so male flowers open more often hoping that a pollinator will transfer the pollen to a flower on a different plant. Ultimately, it is good for the survival of the species. With one plant only, it is a problem because unless you collect pollen and store it, the male and female flowers have to be open at the same time.

When temperature here get over 85 degrees, if the plants are not parthenocarpic, they will stop making female flowers and produce mostly male flowers.

[zufar]

Okay, thanks for sharing this info. I went to check today and on all my plants the female flowers has already opened (Refer to pic attached). But still, there is no mature male flowers yet on any of them. Logically, these first fruits are not going to make it right?. As there is no possibility for pollination.?

[applestar]

Even if there was 1 male flower, I don’t think one would be enough to pollinate more than 3 female flowers at most.

You could harvest these female blossoms with attached blossoms and try some recipes.

In addition to simple “fancy” garnishes as is, we like them stuffed with cream cheese and eaten raw as part of a salad or a special garnish, or stuffed with typical pasta shell stuffing then dipped in flour-beaten eggs-panko and fried. Also simply add to omelette.

We mostly do this with male blossoms but female blossoms with attached baby squash are considered a special treat.

I imagine if you are marketing them, you might be able to develop a customer base with restaurant chefs, if you can organize a way to get these to them while the blossoms are fresh.


…BTW I’d love to see a wide shot of the squash plants in the greenhouse with yellow blossoms on them

[zufar]

Even if there was 1 male flower, I don’t think one would be enough to pollinate more than 3 female flowers at most.

You could harvest these female blossoms with attached blossoms and try some recipes.

In addition to simple “fancy” garnishes as is, we like them stuffed with cream cheese and eaten raw as part of a salad or a special garnish, or stuffed with typical pasta shell stuffing then dipped in flour-beaten eggs-panko and fried. Also simply add to omelette.

We mostly do this with male blossoms but female blossoms with attached baby squash are considered a special treat.

I imagine if you are marketing them, you might be able to develop a customer base with restaurant chefs, if you can organize a way to get these to them while the blossoms are fresh.


…BTW I’d love to see a wide shot of the squash plants in the greenhouse with yellow blossoms on them

I'll give it a try. I will snap a wide shot with the blossoms tommorow.

I wanted to know if there is a possibility the variety that I'm growing is Parthenocarpic?. The male flowers have been present since the very beginning but never matured. The female flowers appeared and opened in just 2 to 3 days. Also, some female flowers already closed and the baby squash attached to it is quite big for an immature fruit.

[applestar]

I think you’ll know in a couple of days after female flowers opened — developing fruits will grow bigger, turn yellower and shinier …unpollinated/aborted baby fruits will not grow, become paler yellow and duller… and become wrinkled and soft and fall off by the 4th day or so.

[zufar]

A little update on my plants. I could not get a full panoramic shot of the flowers as the plants appears too bushy. I snapped some shots from the best angle I could to get some flowers in the shot.

I also snapped pictures of the unpollinated fruit so if you can tell me whether they are going to make it or not.

No male flowers have emerged yet. Only females.

Also included a shot of my hybrid F1 Cucumbers.

[imafan26]

If the fruit is holding on and not yellowing and dropping off. I may be a greenhouse variety that is parthenocarpic. Parthenocarpic plants produce mostly female flowers but do produce some male flowers. Pollination helps things out, but parthenocarpic fruit can still develop without pollination. Parthenocarpic varieties that are not pollinated will have no or very small seeds.

[zufar]

Another update. Now I am starting to see more male flowers. The first female flowers has already developed in medium sized Patty Pans

For some weird reason, I cannot get the full panoramic range on my camera. It's snapping only half the length.

Here are some pics :

[applestar]

NICE!

If those first female only ones are developing, then these must be parthenocarpic?

Are you planning to sell them at different maturity? I’m not that familiar with pattypans but zucchini’s only takes a few days to a week to be harvest size and I pick them on early side because the skin is so tender and we like them raw in salads as well as cooked.

Baby quash with fresh flower attached are considered gourmet and I definitely want to try growing enough to be able to harvest some, but this is my first year growing them in a hoophouse and I only tried for 6 plants out of only 4 grew… so maybe next year. (Growing in protected space has definitely produced the best results so far in my garden.)

I suppose ones with tender skins would be more difficult to package for market. How do you plan to harvest and transport? Are you selling them direct or to a distribution center?

I’ve heard some pattypans are also good as mature squash.

Have you tasted them yet?

[imafan26]

I have had squash flowers, stuffed with cheese. They are really good. Squash petals are similar in texture to lettuce, a little crisp. It is a lot like eating daylily flowers.
I grew pattypans a long time ago. I did not really know how to eat it so I let it get too big.

[zufar]

NICE!

If those first female only ones are developing, then these must be parthenocarpic?

Are you planning to sell them at different maturity? I’m not that familiar with pattypans but zucchini’s only takes a few days to a week to be harvest size and I pick them on early side because the skin is so tender and we like them raw in salads as well as cooked.

Baby quash with fresh flower attached are considered gourmet and I definitely want to try growing enough to be able to harvest some, but this is my first year growing them in a hoophouse and I only tried for 6 plants out of only 4 grew… so maybe next year. (Growing in protected space has definitely produced the best results so far in my garden.)

I suppose ones with tender skins would be more difficult to package for market. How do you plan to harvest and transport? Are you selling them direct or to a distribution center?

I’ve heard some pattypans are also good as mature squash.

Have you tasted them yet?

Yes, I will grade them from medium and fully matured. I've been studying the market for Patty Pan for some time before trying this first grow. Here in Mauritius, the bigger it is the more they pay you. Some clients like them medium sized and tender while some like them the bigger and harder.

I must say, these have been among some of the most prolific plants I've ever grown. I tried some outdoors and they are not as developed as the one in the Greenhouse.

I deliver the vegetables to the sellers in my town. Some sellers come to pick up. I also go to the Main market every Monday and Thursday where other sellers from different cities come and buy them.

I'm very excited to try them tomorrow. I harvested a few already medium sized. I'll also surely try the young squash with blossoms.

My cucumbers from the 2nd greenhouse reached end of life today. I switched off the watering system. Will start cleanup tomorrow. I might be trying some strawberries next. These things are super expensive and demands are very high here. Even the seeds are rare to find. I may have to drive for hours to actually get my hands on them.

[imafan26]

https://www.foodandwine.com/how/how-coo ... h-blossoms

Strawberries don't crop all year. I have day neutral strawberries. I get a crop in early summer and if the plants survive the heat another one in the fall.

[zufar]

Hello everyone.

Delivered two of my Clients today. Satisfying results so far.

Harvesting every 3 to 5 days. Fast growth, I never expected it to grow overnight.

I planted lots of Okra outdoor on my field. Might start a new topic to track the progress. We'll see.

Here are some pics :

[imafan26]

Looking good. Squash, cucumbers and okra grow really fast.

[zufar]

Looking good. Squash, cucumbers and okra grow really fast.

I planted some 50 Okra seeds already. Planning to plant some more to around 75. Do Okras have any particular disease or pest that I should be worried about?

[imafan26]

Okra are related to hibiscus. The biggest problems I have with hibiscus are mealy bugs. That is a problem that is new for me because of the neighbor's hibiscus hedge. the mealy bugs get on the zucchini and okra. I use water, pruning, and alcohol to control them. I can use imidicloprid on the ornamental hibiscus I have. That also will control the erineum mites. They are hard to get rid of because of the waxy coats. Otherwise, they get the usual aphids. Ant control with bait helps a lot with that. I don't have much problems with aphids because I a have a pollen and nectar garden to attract beneficial insects in my front yard and fennel in a pot in the back yard. I have so few aphids that the fennel doesn't even have aphids. Fennel is a good protector of the garden. It is an aphid trap and attracts beneficial insects especially ladybugs. The flowers of fennel last a long time and can feed a lot of beneficial insects especially the parasitic predators. Fennel though does not like company so it needs to be planted about 10 ft from anything else. The only companions that are not bothered by it are ginger family (they attract aphids that are not attracted to fennel), and gynuura (nothing bothers that). Anything else fennel will have the effect to stop growth and blooming once the fennel blooms. Because fennel is a trap, it attracts aphids so you don't want plants near fennel and give the aphids a choice.