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Gary350
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CABBAGE when to plant seeds & transplants?

I want to learn how to grow cabbage. I gave up trying to grow cabbage about 1980 bugs eat all the cabbage. Our last frost is April 20 and we often have 90°F weather June 1 and 98°F July 1. We have rain almost every day Dec to May.

WHAT variety of cabbage do YOU grow?

Do you grow, spring, summer or winter cabbage?

When do you start seeds?

When do you transplant to the garden?

How tall are your transplants?

Is your cabbage a 3, 4 or 6 month crop.












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TomatoNut95
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I grew cabbage last year from transplants that I planted.... Oh nuts, I can't remember what month I planted the transplants. It had to be October of November. I harvested the heads the following Spring. I grew....Brunswick.... I think. It was surprisingly easy, but I do recall an aphid issue.

This year I'm trying red cabbage from seed. It's already germinating. I have extra seed if you want to give it a shot. I'm not home right now, I'll do some research when I get home...in the meantime, Gary have a look at my garden thread at my cabbage pictures I posted.

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TomatoNut95
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Okay I dug through my old garden posts and found out I planted my cabbage transplants in late October. I harvested them the following March I think. Maybe that was Early Jersey Wakefield I grew.

This year I started seed a week ago and they are already germinating as well as the Brussel sprouts, broccoli and cauliflower. Brassicea seed germinate very quickly, don't plant them very deep and keep the soil moist.

According to what I've read, cabbage doesnt like to be transplanted, so take care not to disturb the roots when transplanting if you start seed in packs. Cabbage is a cool weather crop, and can tolerate frost.
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applestar
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I have not perfected the techniques for growing cabbage so not much to offer as advice.

There are 3 basic shapes to look for -- Sphere, narrow football standing on end, and flattened round. You also have the pale “white/green” and so called “red“ or “purple” Colored cabbages, and savoyed = crinkled/wrinkled leaf types. They are all available as heirloom or hybrid. Hybrids often boast superior disease resistance and/or extra early uniform harvest, etc.

Note, too that there are two different type of cabbages — early maturing and late maturing. There are ones that are significantly frost/freeze resistant that can be grown in winter after starting in late summer/early fall for winter/early spring, and ones that are heat resistant that can be started in early spring and harvested in late spring/summer. Then ones that can be started early summer for late fall harvest, resisting and sweetening with first nip of frost/snow.

Cabbage are shallow-rooted and but needs steady moisture. Drought followed by significant rain can make them split depending on development stage.

You might also want to look at Portuguese kale and other ‘not exactly cabbage” crops.

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TomatoNut95
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I remember now, it was Brunswick I think I planted last October, because according to Baker Creek Early Jersey Wakefield is a conical shape, whereas the cabbage I grew wasn't conical. This Red Acre cabbage is what I'm growing now, the little babies are coming up. I bought some Mammoth Red Rock seed from Baker, mainly because they didn't have a green variety when I was shopping their website. If you would like some of my purple cabbage seed, Gary I will be happy to share I have plenty.
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Gary, those are good questions and I'm not sure if I can help because of the differences in climate.

Long ago, DW decided that she likes both early and late Flat Dutch. I grew some others but that was long ago and those varieties wouldn't be seen as anything but traditional types these days. One that worked well for me was Jersey Wakefield. It was so quick that I could have cabbage salad in early July and plant something like zucchini where the cabbage had grown. That may be possible some years with early Flat Dutch but not always. The late Flat Dutch are coming out of the garden at this time of year.

Collards and Portuguese kale are in the same species as cabbage. The bugs are easier to deal with if a head doesn't form and the bugs that I have the most trouble with are aphids. If I haven't killed them with either insecticidal soap or neem oil before the leaves curl inward, aphids can really make a mess of the plants.

You might be successful growing Chinese cabbage. It isn't the same species as the European type but makes a good salad green and, if you are thinking about sauerkraut, kim chi is good stuff.

I really can't grow Chinese cabbage unless I keep it in the backyard hoop house and leave that up until July, or nearly that late. I've wondered about what it doesn't like about the spring weather here but would guess that it's the up and down temperatures. The plants do fine in the hoop house but I like to get that out of the way several weeks sooner than July so I'll leave that vegetable to others.

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Head cabbages can be grown as a winter crop here in the higher elevations 600-2000 feet. It is the third most important crop vegetable crop behind tomatoes and cucumbers. Locally, the cabbages grown are the Dutch flat head type. Prime Top performed the best in trials beating out the standard KK cross variety in trials. It matures 60-65 days from transplants. Transplants are about 2 inches tall. To get cabbages, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, and carrots to mature when the temperatures are mild. They actually have to be planted now in September or October. Broccoli, and Brussels sprouts will have side shoots until May. Kales are sweeter in the cooler months. Although kale will grow year round, they are more bitter in hot weather.

I only grew head cabbage once because it takes up too much space in my small garden. I did not get a very large head and the snails ate out the core. I would rather grow Asian greens and broccoli instead. The cabbages attracted aphids, cabbage butterflies, snails, and was more work than the other cabbages. The Asian mustard, and choi allow multiple harvest of the leaves and take up half the space. They are more heat tolerant so I can grow them for a longer time. Kale takes up less space. The cabbage takes up as much space as the collard, but I can harvest more leaves from the collard.

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I'm not having good luck finding cabbage kill temperature online. Even when I do search by specific cabbage names it still comes up. Cabbage, 28°F, 25°F, 20°F to 15°F. Tundra cabbage claims to be extremely cold hardy but it gives no kill temperature. Old seed catalogs has no kill temperature for cabbage. Ebay seeds has no kill temperature for cabbage. My old notes shows 28°F & 25°F as cabbage kill temperature. I found a Youtube video that says, Savoy is 20°F kill Temp. Looks like experiments need to happen to learn fatally killed to death temperature of each type cabbage?

Savoy Cabbage claims to be very cold hardy but still no kill temperature online information except YouTube.

Seed catalogs is the only place I am finding numbers for length of harvest. Some cabbage is 100 day, 90 days, 60, 65, 70. It looks like Savoy cabbage is a 65 day crop. Online claims 3, 4 & 6 months crops.

I talked to a Man & wife that lives about 3 miles from me they grow cabbage in pots all winter. They planted seeds every week, pots stay outside until cold weather then they bring pots in the house at night in freezing weather. Pots go out again next morning to get full sun & fresh air & rain. They say their cabbage is small because pots are small, big pots too heavy to move.

Savoy is 1 of the cabbages I would like to grow.

Online says, plant cabbage seeds inside after 6 weeks then transplant them outside, harvest in 6 more weeks.

I wish I still had a few cabbage seeds I threw all my 3 & 4 year old seeds in the yard a month ago.

There are lots of interesting Youtube cabbage videos, lots of sizes & different shapes of cabbage. Long tall pointed cabbage, pancake cabbage, round ball shape cabbage, curly leave cabbage, napa cabbage, boc choy is a type of cabbage, green & red cabbage. Red claims to be more cold hardy than green & still no kill temperature?.

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We had a similar discussion in this thread. See if any of these help with your current project :D
:arrow: Subject: Late Fall to Winter Gardening with protection

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I remember that now. You have a much better memory than me. Some days I can't remember much & other days I am better. I found my old notes with kill temperatures. 40 years ago we use to have mild winters until about Christmas it was rare to get below 25 degrees F and no snow for sometimes 5 years in a row. Our weather has changed the past 6 years we had temperatures down to 15 deg in Nov and 2 of those years down to 5 deg in Nov. Typically 15 degree F is our low for the whole winter. Now we get snow every year.

Yesterday I got excited about planting some cold weather crops then tilled and planted seeds. I ordered more seeds they will probably be here in 3 to 5 days. I will plant 10 of each. We down sized from BIG house to tiny house I have no place to starts seeds inside.

Yesterday I got excited about building a green house. I have 34 windows and 2 doors all I need is 38 boards 2x4x8" long PT lumber. I drew green house plans last night. Green house has a planting bed 4' wide x 15.5' long with a 30" walk area down the rear. I went to Lowe's today to check prices 38 boards 2x4x8' = $418.00. The same lumber 9 months ago was $91.00. Now I am not excited to build a green house anymore.

Today I got to thinking, I use to plant turnip greens & collard greens no amount of cold weather ever killed them and they don't need a green house.

I have planted, broccoli, kale, swiss chard, napa, beets, in winter once they don't need a green house either, but they just set there not growing until weather gets warmer in April. Maybe green house will warm up enough some days to make plants grow in winter? Is it really worth having a green house?

This in my old notes that I found last night.

Collard greens, 0 degrees F

Turnip greens, 5 degrees F

Spinach, Lettuce. 10

Carrots, beets, 12

Cilantro, parsley, Russian Red Kale, green Swiss chard, 15

Savoy cabbage 20

Boc Choy, Red Swiss Chard, Napa, 25

Green round Cabbage, Blue Kale, Broccoli, 28

I have no clue if these are all correct. Different varieties have a different freeze temperature. Russian Red Kale has survives several times down to 15 degree. Broccoli always freezes out. Parsley always survives winter if I plant it. Carrots froze and rotted at 10 deg one year. I have never had good luck planting most of these directly in the garden if it is too cold seeds never germinate until May & if seeds germinate they don't grow until it warms up in May. Now there is YouTube I see most people germinate seeds in the house for a month or more then transplant out side.

This year is a bad year for bugs & blight if my cabbage seeds germinate bugs might eat them before Nov 7 frost. 4 week early frost and bugs be dead. LOL. :D

Camera won't take a good pic at 90 deg angle light reflects like a mirror on paper. Angle photo makes drawing look goofy.
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Gary350
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Chinese cabbage. This is the type video I like all the information is here. Napa freezes at 15 deg F. It grows heads at 53 to 70 deg. Plant does not grow below 40 deg. Bolts at 85 deg.

Yesterday I found Korean video how to grow savoy cabbage but can not find it again today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKR-4KlpQ6I

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TomatoNut95
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Has anybody ever had cauliflower survive the winter? Mine sure didn't, a frost killed my transplants but the cabbage did fine.

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Another good cabbage video. All videos I have seed by oriental people say, each cabbage has its own freeze temperature. Cabbage does not grow below 40 Deg F it will set there waiting for warmer weather to grow, Most cabbage likes 50 to 65 degree weather to grow heads. 75 degrees plants will grow leaves with no heads. Cabbage will bolt about 80 to 85 degree F. Best fertilizer is 15-3-3. For very large heads plant 20' to 24" apart. For smaller dinner size heads plant 12" to 15" apart. Plants need 6 to 8 hrs of full sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHs4V1 ... E1hfmflITF

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Gary350
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TomatoNut95 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:46 pm
Has anybody ever had cauliflower survive the winter? Mine sure didn't, a frost killed my transplants but the cabbage did fine.
Wife use to grow cauliflower when she lived in Michigan. She said, start seeds inside to avoid bugs. Grow 1 seed in every quart size pot. Plants need 8 hrs of sun, fertilizer, & water. Cover with net cloth to keep bugs away. Transplants into garden 20" apart. This is an 80 to 90 day crop harvest when heads are the size you like. Fold plant leaves up over the head then tie them in place deer will not eat the heads & it keeps sun off the heads. Be sure to plant seeds so plants mature 1 to 2 weeks after first frost. Frost makes cauliflower tender & sweet with much better flavor. Freeze temperature is about 28 degrees. Here is a video not much info as I like but it down have some good info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFbRyL5Jrc

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It’s very important to remember that not all varieties of the same crop are the same. Cool weather crops — originally preferring long period of mild to cool temperatures throughout their growth and often grown in higher elevations— for instance have been specifically developed to either tolerate extreme cold/freeze so they can be grown through the winter or to tolerate extreme heat during early or late stages of their development —

Tolerate extreme cold/frost/freeze
- at the final near-harvest stage (grown late summer-late fall/early winter ...these tend to be heat tolerant during younger stages) OR
- as growing small plants (typical for growing through the winter to be harvested in late winter/early spring) OR

Tolerate rising temperatures and heat waves
- during growth and near harvest (late winter/early spring starting for late spring/early summer harvest)


...When researching, try internet search with keywords Like “cold hardy winter cailiflower varieties texas“

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Bugs weren't my problem, it was the temperature. The cauliflower transplants I bought last October did not survive the first frost. Can't remember the name of it. This year I'm trying Durgesh 41 which says is it is suitable for Southern growing and is supposedly heat and cold tolerable. Is also self-blanching.

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TomatoNut95 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:04 am
Bugs weren't my problem, it was the temperature. The cauliflower transplants I bought last October did not survive the first frost. Can't remember the name of it. This year I'm trying Durgesh 41 which says is it is suitable for Southern growing and is supposedly heat and cold tolerable. Is also self-blanching.
I am looking for 60 to 70 day crops, I just ordered 200 Snow Ball Cauliflower seeds 99¢ free shipping. I think this probably is a short 2 month crop if temperatures will stay 65 to 70 every day for 2 months. But temperature is slowly dropping every day by Dec 1 high for the day might only be 50 degrees this will slow down maturity so a 60 day crop might turn out to be 90 days and if it gets colder Jan 1 high for the day might be 40 degrees so the crop might turn out to be 120 day or longer. This is where a green house could come in very handy to keep crops warmer.

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Sauerkraut Recipe.

This taste nothing like grocery store sauerkraut, I like this better. I made this recipe last summer in 1 pint mason jars with grocery store round ball green cabbage. If you don't like sauerkraut you will probably like this. It is so good I removed the lid then microwave the jar then eat sauerkraut right out of the jar with a fork, that is why I made pints and not quarts. Watch the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpRmoit5vNw


Traditional Sauerkraut. I have not made this but maybe I should. Watch video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4QivmKfQRE


Kemchi Recipe. I know Korean lady that makes Kemchi it is very good. I have always wanted to make this but never have. Cabbage is soaked in pickling salt water same way you soak cucumbers to make pickles. Rinse salt away to taste. Add as many garlic and as much onion as you like. Add sliced carrots & green onion tops & radishes. Add Korean red pepper flakes as much as you like to suit your taste. There are many recipes online this one looks simple for beginners. You need large plastic wash pan for mixing bowl. Watch video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaoA7SKN0g0

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Re: TomatoNut95, Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:46 pm
"Has anybody ever had cauliflower survive the winter? Mine sure didn't, a frost killed my transplants but the cabbage did fine."

I've been growing cauliflower through the winter with floating row cover over it. I think I used a cover that allows 75% light penetration, and it protected the plant down to 22 degrees last year.

Now this was a plant that I put in in March of last year, harvested in late June, cut it back and let it regrow to get another head around the first of January, and then a smaller head in mid June the next year. The plant was running out of gas by the third head, but was probably better equipped to handle the cold than a young transplant.

I just planted 4 transplants that I bought today. I put them in a raised bed with and covered them with the row cover immediately afterwards.

With the soil level in the bed, and the extra blocks I put around them, they probably have about 2 feet of headroom to keep them from touching the covering and getting frosted as easily.

Hopefully they will get enough growth before the "real cold" the end of next month.

We will see...

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I planted 3 packs of cabbage this year. 1 red and 2 green. 1 green has semi crinkly leaves.

I've got a recipe for cabbage soup I want to try when cabbage is ready.



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