Toxic1979
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Garlic Questions

This is my third year trying garlic. I love growing it.
I have a few questions, that will hopefully help me refine the growing process a bit more.

1. While harvesting garlic, I discovered that the stalk thickness seems to play a role in how large the garlic is below the ground. In my limited experience, it seems the thicker the stalk, the larger the garlic. is that typically how it is? When growing potato, the stalk had no real bearing on my potato production. Ive small tiny stalks with nice yields.

2. I'm trying to use my own garlic to plant every season. Typically I have been purchasing from suppliers, and planting every year. I'd like to limit the amount I purchase. Is there any thing special that needs to be done, to prepare the garlic to return back to the ground for planting in the fall? I've been reading some conflicting info on it, whether or not to wash it off when it comes out of the ground, curing is requirement... I'm just curious, as I planted some f my own garlic lat fall. My results were about 60 % successful. Yet the garlic I buy from suppliers is typically about 95% successful. Wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or missing something. Last year, I washed and cured the garlic. I didn't peel apart the cloves until they were ready to be planted in the ground, which around October here. We also had an early spring this year, with heavy frost in the spring. I figured the frost may have gotten to them.

3. Garlic Bulbils. I tried them this year, with varied results. A couple questions. I purchased my bulbils from a supplier:

- Should I plant these in the Fall, or just wait until the spring. The spring plantings seem to be doing much much better.
- Obviously I want to replant all of these. Is there anything special I should be doing them, once they are ready to harvest? and replant?
- Should I expect scape production off of these?
- Typically how long (yrs) does it take to produce a good garlic bulb from them? I've been reading 3-4 yrs.

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!potatoes!
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1) yes, generally, there is a correlation between stem size and bulb size. furthermore, there is also a correlation between stem size and how much more the bulbs will bulk up in curing, since that's really an action of storing the remaining energy in the stalk/leaves - I also suspect that leaving some dirt on the roots for curing helps the bulking up, since they dry out slower.

2)my standard practice is to cure everything together (for both eating and replanting) dirty, and picking out the one I want to plant, separating off cloves, and replanting in fall. I really wouldn't expect frost to be a significant danger to garlic, especially late spring frosts when they should have well-established roots from the winter.

3) I haven't messed with bulbils much yet, but my understanding is that the first year you get a round single-clove bulb, and thereafter you start getting more 'normal' multi-clove bulbs. I don't know how quick they get to good sizes, but 3-4 years seems like too long. if the varieties are hard-neck, I'd think you might expect scapes, but they might be pretty skinny for a bit.

Vanisle_BC
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Hi Toxic; I love growing garlic too. Next to weeds it's my most successful crop. Your high 95% success rate is about the lowest I usually get. Anything like 60% would be a puzzle and disappointment.

I should mention that I only grew softnecks for the first couple of years - now only hardneck.

I've never observed whether/how stalk thickness relates to bulb size, but in my experience (contrary to the usual advice) the size of clove planted has no bearing on the size of bulb I will harvest. I've checked and confirmed this two or three years running. Huge cloves may grow small bulbs and vice versa.

When I lift garlic - often a bit earlier than recommended because of impatience, wanting to plant something else - I tie the uncleaned plants in bundles and hang them upside down in my covered patio till they're thoroughly dry. Then I cut off the bulbs and store them; enough for the kitchen plus enough for next season's seed. I don't specially clean them but usually the outer layer of skin comes off and the dirt with it. I don't separate the seed cloves till planting time, usually Sep or Oct. Originally I planted in spring but saw a good increase in bulb size when I started doing it in fall.

I imagine you get harder frosts than we do so I won't comment on that except to say garlic has always survived winter for me.

I've never noticed the after-harvest bulking up that !potatoes! mentioned. I'm probably just too unobservant and it's a new concept for me.

I've been playing with bulbils for about 3 years. My observation & recording habits are kind of poor so I can't be definitive :). Like you, I've had varying (disappointing) results. I plant them same time as the main crop, in basins or wood boxes, spaced 1" in rows 2" apart. The first year what came up above ground was no thicker than grass and the harvested 'rounds' varied from about 3/4" to very small. These I've stored till fall & replanted in boxes, spaced 1.5 & 2 inches. They grew small bulbs with cloves; but none made a good kitchen-size bulb. Maybe that's just not feasible in 2 years or the varieties I have won't do it. Online opinions seem to vary (surprise!). The planted bulbils did not make scapes but the rounds did.

For the main crop I've tried planting whole 4-clove bulbs or even leaving some unharvested to grow again. Both were successful, whether more/less productive and why I stopped doing it I'm not sure. Some health issues have interrupted things for a couple of years. Good excuse :). I'm not sure what would be appropriate spacing for these 'clumps'. I also wonder how it would be to leave rounds unharvested to grow in place. Might the resulting bulbs then be bigger?

Here's a question - does eating lots of garlic 'flatten the curve' by encouraging social distance?

pepperhead212
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I love growing garlic, too. Actually, I love eating it, and the stuff I grow is much better! I only grow hardnecks, but some - mostly rocambole - need even colder winters than sometimes get here, and one winter like I had last year, when it barely froze at all, a couple of varieties didn't even grow - they looked like scallions! You wouldn't have that problem there, but there are warm weather types, which you would have trouble with. I can't imagine getting 60% from any, but maybe that was the problem. I rarely use my own to plant, but I may do that this season for the Estonian Red, using those huge ones - most are 3 or 4 cloves per bulb, plus that one with 2 huge cloves. This surprised me, as they were the smallest cloves of any this year! Go figure!

I just dug up a bunch of them today - quite a few of the Metechi were still with 5 green leaves, but I'll dig those very soon. I always shoot for 4 green leaves, but a lot of them on two of the new varieties this year - Italian Red and Montana Giant - browned early, yet they seemed small. It's hard to dig those up in between the all green plants!

I dug up all but my metechi today, as most of those still have a lot of green. I got 97 to hang in the basement, plus about 20 that need to be used quickly (gave a dozen of those to my neighbor, who brought me over a plate from their BBQ). Estonian red was the best, with very few of those plants that turned brown too fast, which happened with a lot of the new varieties Italian Red and Montana Giant, both of which had a good number of large bulbs, but a number of those were the early all brown plants, with just a green stalk. I dug them up as they appeared, but had to label them "use 1st".
ImageJust one side of the row of Estonian Red 7-04-20 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

ImageThe other side of the Estonian Red row 7-04-20 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

I never plant bulbils, but have some nice ones, sometimes.
ImageA couple of bulbils left on some of the Estonian Reds by pepperhead212, on Flickr

ImageEstonian Reds, the one on the bottom with just 2 huge cloves. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

Image48 heads of Estonian Red, and 17 heads of Montana Giant, ready to cure, 7-04-20 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

Image32 Italian Reds, next to those 17 Montana Giants, ready to cure, 7-04-20 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

ImageMontana Giant, Italian Red, and Estonian Red, hanging in the basement to cure, in front of my lathe. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

In just a few days, the Metechi gets dug up. In just the last couple of days, quite a few of them have gotten down to the desired 4 greens.

Toxic1979
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If only all plants would grow as fast as weeds....

This spring was massive fluctuations in temp. Our days were 10 celsius, and the evenings would be around -15 celsius. I was worried the days would encourage green growth form the garlic and the evenings would damage them. And it snowed in between until almost the end may. Such a disappointing spring here.

When you prep you garlic for storage, how much of your root do you cut off? if any. I may have snipped a bit too much off the roots, and maybe then tried replanting.

I also washed a lot of them. And some them were washed too much I think. A lot of the garlic skin/ paper, was coming off. Not sure if that would affect there ability for growth though.

I had about 40 bulbs left over from last year harvest. They weren't feeling great. Some cloves were soft, some were dried out.. almost hollow. I figured I'm only going to end up throwing them away, so I separated the good ones and planted them in the garden in the spring. About 10 days passed and they were pushing up out of the soil. I was confident they would not grow. Surprised me.

Ive never read that the stalk could direct its energy back into the build once they are out of the ground. It's interesting, and I've never watched for it before. This year I will for sure.

I have quite a bit of growing space, so, I always try a lot of varieties of garlic. Introduced a few new varieties this year. I have about 800-900 plants growing in total. I'm trying to harvest enough for us during fall, winter, spring, and then some for giving away to friends and family, neighbours.... but I also want to get to point where I can keep replanting my own harvests in the late fall. And have to spend minimal cash for new bulbs.

You may actually be on to something when it comes to garlic and encouraging social distancing. lol.

That said, I certainly hope everyone is doing well, and staying safe!

I appreciate the feedback!

Vanisle_BC
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Toxic: I used to worry that emerging garlic would be damaged by frost. I don't anymore. But I can't recall the min temp it's survived here.

I only cut the roots back close to their own 'roots,' and don't wash cloves for storage; just let the outer layer of papery skin slough off which it mostly does just from handling. When I detach the cloves for cooking or planting they have a hard stubbly end which I take to be potential new roots. For cooking I cut this off; for planting, not! I suspect if the bulb roots had been trimmed severely enough to damage this part, the clove would not grow.

By summer, some of the stored bulbs can be getting soft and/or sprouting. Others are still OK for kitchen and later planting. I don't think I've ever planted soft or dried-out ones. I grow about 150-200 and we never have to buy garlic, (we're in an 'empty nest'.) My initial seed bulbs were purchased. Your 800-900 plants: Are those all garlic? Wow.

For a couple of seasons our harvested cloves had unusual yellow colouring or patches. I worried they were diseased and avoided replanting the worst of them; but the symptom died out in successive years and it didn't seem to affect their usability in the kitchen.

I've grown Susan Delafield, Fishlake 3, Red Russian, Music plus a good unnamed one from bulbils I was given; and one I call Redneck because I've lost track of its 'provenance.' Don't even know whether it's a single variety or just a mixture of several I've grown over the years.

Glad you don't seem to mind my being a bit garrulous. I do like writing about stuff. Safety-wise our island has done well, and our own rural-route location helps. I suspect you're similarly situated.

I'll be interested to hear whatever garlic or other garden info you can report, in as much detail as you like. Thanks too, !potatoes! and Pepperhead. Can't have too much sharing of experience.

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Gary350
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I live in TN = Tennessee our typical low winter temperature is 15 degrees F sometimes it gets down to 5 degrees for a few days. I plant hard neck garlic 6 weeks before first frost. I plant soft neck garlic 8 weeks before first frost. My garlic is usually ready to harvest about last week of May it is usually about 1.5" to 1.75" diameter. I fertilize with high potassium & high phosphorus fertilizer with medium amount of nitrogen. Hard neck garlic seems to grow better here in TN than soft neck. Last year I planted garlic in a small green house garlic did not do good.

When I lived in AZ = Arizona I planted garlic Oct 1st it was 95 degrees under the shade of a 6 ft tall palm tree that had irrigation every day. AZ soil is worthless it has no food value for plants I fertilize with high potassium & high phosphorus fertilizer & medium nitrogen. It is 70 degrees F in AZ all winter with only 2 weeks of freezing weather in Feb. My garlic grew in full shade all day every day I was surprised it grew to 2.25 to 2.5 inch diameter much better than TN.

Maybe combination of warm weather & irrigation is what garlic likes but we had 5 ft of rain & a mild winter in TN last last year and my garlic was very small 1" diameter.

I have planted, seed garlic, grocery store garlic, my own garlic, I can not tell 1 is better than the other so I buy what is cheapest which is Walmart hard neck garlic. I have better luck with hard neck garlic than soft neck garlic. I read garlic should be in the refrigerator 3 months before planting so I tried that & so far I can't tell any difference with hard neck but soft neck seems to grow tops 2 weeks sooner. Large bulbs grow larger garlic heads for me than small bulbs.

One year I did a test I planted garlic, Sept 1, Sept 15, Oct 1, Oct 15. Garlic planted Sept 1 & Sept 15 did best. 2 weeks difference Sept 1 compared to Sept 15 garlic harvest is the same. Garlic planted 2 weeks later was smaller harvest and garlic planted 4 weeks later was even smaller. It appears planting a few weeks too soon is not a problem and no advantage either.

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!potatoes!
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we, too, grow all the garlic we eat in a year, and have for a while.

it seems like the garlic is going a bit longer/is a bit later than usual this year. I almost always pull the garlic right at the end of june, but it's still fairly green and pretty out there and I don't need that space yet, so I'll let it go a bit longer.

pepperhead212
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I harvested about a dozen Metechi today, after noticing that a number of those had lost most of the green quickly. I dug them up individually, which I did a while back with the other varieties. Everything I left in had at least 4 green leaves - I dug 2 with 4 greens that were large stalks, but left a few smaller ones. When only dealing with the few plants of the one variety, this is doable, but not when I had all the rest of those! I might harvest tomorrow - I'll play it by ear, as I might try to dig them out, if rain is coming, as I would rather get them a bit smaller, but dry, so that they can store longer. Tuesday is more likely for rain, but forecasts change constantly, and every day is hot and humid!
ImageMetechi - about a dozen dug up early, since they had few green leaves left.7-05-20 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

Toxic1979
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I was going to ask what some of you are using for a fertilizer. I've typically stuck to hen manure pellets. I use it at the end of the year, and let it go through a winter, then at the beginning of the year again. I do that for the majority of raised beds. It's purchased hen manure pellets.

I've tried growing some in the greenhouse as well, with very little success. The same goes for growing them in planters/ pots as well. They grow but nothing like in the garden. This is actually my very first year trying some of them in the spring.

I typically can't harvest until about September. I'll post a few pics of my last years harvest shortly. I'm having some success with garlic growing, but I want get it better. I enjoy growing as a hobby. Don't get me wrong, I love eating too, but for the most part I give away a lot of my produce. I gave about 200 garlic to the farmers market last year as donation for them to sell. It sells fairly quick. And I always have friends and family coming to get some throughout the year. I don't mind. It keeps me busy! LOL

This Year I'm growing the following:
- Georgian Fore
- French Porcelain
- Italian
- Yugoslavian
- Rocky Red
- Music
- Great Northern
- Sicilian
- Rasa Rosa

Toxic1979
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As for the Bulbils, I've planted:
- Music
- Susan Delafield
- Salt Spring

Toxic1979
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2019 Garlic: First week in September, trying to get them out before a heavy rain.
2019 Garlic: First week in September, trying to get them out before a heavy rain.

Toxic1979
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2019 Garlic harvest: The are some of my Italian and Sicilian. The Sicilian are well, with a lot cloves. On average they produced about 10-12 cloves each. The Italians were about 3 cloves, but much larger cloves.
2019 Garlic harvest: The are some of my Italian and Sicilian. The Sicilian are well, with a lot cloves. On average they produced about 10-12 cloves each. The Italians were about 3 cloves, but much larger cloves.

Toxic1979
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2019 Garlic Harvest: Two trays of these were donated tot he farmers market.
2019 Garlic Harvest: Two trays of these were donated tot he farmers market.

Toxic1979
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2019 Garlic Harvest: These are Sicilians. They were the only garlic open up this way. Not sure what causes this. They were like it when I pulled them from the ground.
2019 Garlic Harvest: These are Sicilians. They were the only garlic open up this way. Not sure what causes this. They were like it when I pulled them from the ground.

pepperhead212
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@toxic, how many green leaves did the Sicilian still have? Ones that turn almost totally brown, seem to do this. The rest look gorgeous, so it's not something that you are doing, apparently. Seems I had a similar problem with Sicilian, the only time I grew them - they didn't store well at all, because of the lack of skin.

I harvested the Metechi today - I went out when I saw the noon news, and the radar showed a major storm coming through my area, and it looked like around 2:30 it would start. Took me about 45 min. to harvest, clean, and ready them for hanging. By the time I got in, it was really dark, though it hasn't rained yet. By the time I got in there was a severe TS warning for a large area, including my area. I hear thunder, but no rain, yet.

Here is a funny looking one I pulled up - happens about once every 5 years or so, when a clove gets planted upside-down. Usually, they don't grow this large.
ImageMetechi - Clove was planted upside down! by pepperhead212, on Flickr

ImageMetechi, harvested 7-06. 48 heads, plus the 6 to use right away. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

Update: they said around 3 pm, and that's almost exactly when it started! And now it's coming down by the bucketfulls! It's up to 92", last I looked, about 15 min. ago.

Toxic1979
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@pepperhead212 The Sicilian was very odd for me.... it produced a lot of cloves, and they were on average size, but thinking back on them, and looking at some photos, the stalks we're not overly thick, and I remember they went completely brown.I was surprised they were so big and abundant. I didn't bother pulling them until the rest of the varieties were ready to be pulled. The stalks on the Sicilians were almost falling off at harvest time. I had to dry them on a wire rack as there was nothing to hang them from. That said, I planted a ton of them this year from those cloves, and they seem to be doing much better. Hopefully they produce just a good.

The majority of these in pictures were replanted, as I was afraid they would spoil too quickly if I tried storing them.

Those Metechi look good! Enjoy them!

Toxic1979
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A few updates from this years harvest!

Don’t mind the garlic hanging/ curing over my snowblower! Lol

Toxic1979
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I’ll post a few pictures of damaged garlic, and discoloured garlics later this week just to see what some of you may think the problem is!

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Gary350
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Lots of good garlic information here?

Hard neck garlic grows best for me too & we think hard neck has better flavor than soft neck.

Which hard neck garlic has the best flavor?

I tried a giant garlic once it had a terrible flavor, are they all like that?
Last edited by Gary350 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pepperhead212
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Gary350 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:06 am
Which hard neck garlic has the best flavor?

I tried a giant garlic once it had a terrible flavor are they all like that?
I only had mild flavor with elephant garlic, but that is a different species. Most of the hardnecks I grow are good flavor - I'm looking for those best for storage. Estonian red, which is a favorite, due to flavor, and size, does not store well, so I use it first. Metechi is another fav, with intense flavor, and stores until I'm finished with it, in May, maybe June, usually. I have also had German Porcelain store very well - one time, I kept a bulb for a year, just to see, and the cloves were barely getting green inside, when I cut them open. I usually have to get some garlic in the stores once or twice, before I get the next batch.



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