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Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:48 pm
by Vanisle_BC
Do any of us keep track of the average yield per plant, by variety, of our tomatoes? My figures last year - outdoors in zone 7 - varied from about 12lb (Longkeeper) down to about 3lb (Latah, Sungold). I don't grow any with very big fruits, and I'd say I'm not a very intensive or attentive gardener. My plants don't get 'babied'.

Baker sent me a free sample of Russian Purple which looks interesting.

I'd be interested to know what kind of harvest others get, from the different varieties.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:41 pm
by PaulF
I happen to be one of those crazy, anal people who keeps track of every bit of information from every plant in the garden. My records go back nearly twenty years and cover maybe 300 varieties. Twenty years of at least 35 plants per year except last year this only 20 plants. Along with numbers of fruits, every one gets weighed. A journal of temperatures, rainfall/watering and sun vs. cloudy days. Also included is the taste ratings; early season to end to see which varieties we like and when.

At first this was to help to find our favorites but it all exploded into uncontrollable nonsense. For some unknown psychotic reason I keep doing it. Too much time on my hands, I guess. Working on the sixth notebook this year.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:11 pm
by Vanisle_BC
PaulF wrote:I happen to be one of those crazy, anal people who keeps track of every bit of information from every plant in the garden. My records go back nearly twenty years and cover maybe 300 varieties. Twenty years of at least 35 plants per year except last year this only 20 plants......
Paul, Paul; where's the INFO? Don't be a tease! Whatever you can say about yield/variety would interest me. You tracked taste too? We prefer sweet, low acid types including blacks & purples. Generally dislike very big or pleated & catface-prone varities.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:06 pm
by PaulF
Not sure how answer without sounding...well...unhelpful. I react to specifics rather than spew out pages and pages of history that no-one really wants or needs. All the information is subjective and applies to my garden and maybe my general area. I also enjoy what you like plus big ones and heart shaped as well. Pinks...Oh heck, I like them all.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:20 pm
by Vanisle_BC
PaulF wrote:Not sure how answer without sounding...well...unhelpful. I react to specifics rather than spew out pages and pages....
Ah thanks for not hitting us with a big database. I'd just like some idea, from you or others, what's the typical range of yield from a tomato plant; with reference to some specific varieties if available.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:51 pm
by dveg
The question doesn't make a lot of sense, because climate and soil will play a larger role in productivity than plant varieties. Though I suppose one could compare, for a given site, soil, sunlight, and season, the productivity of different varieties. But it's not clear that even that comparative information could be confidently applied to different growing sites. That being said, one can look up lists of what are allegedly "high yield" varieties. Certainly indeterminate varieties are more productive than determinate varieties.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:05 pm
by Vanisle_BC
dveg wrote:The question doesn't make a lot of sense, because climate and soil will play a larger role in productivity than plant varieties. Though I suppose one could compare, for a given site, soil, sunlight, and season, the productivity of different varieties. But it's not clear that even that comparative information could be confidently applied to different growing sites. That being said, one can look up lists of what are allegedly "high yield" varieties. Certainly indeterminate varieties are more productive than determinate varieties.
It's just a question about whatever records people have. Whoever does keep records and wants to share them I'd be happy to hear. If no one keeps records or wants to share them so be it. Either way I'm perfectly aware that 'YMMV' :) - You don't have to garden very long to acquire that knowledge. 30-odd years is plenty.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:57 pm
by TomatoNut95
As a matter of fact, I never even THINK of recording how many tomatoes I get off a plant. I usually don't get very many fruits off one plant unless it's a cherry variety. I am keeping a tomato record book, however. Each page contains the description of a variety - it's growth habit, foliage type, fruit size, color, taste and texture. I also include a spot for 'extra notes' to write down what problems I may encounter when growing the variety such as top-heaviness when plant is loaded with fruit or cracking/splitting of the fruit.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:25 pm
by Vanisle_BC
TomatoNut95 wrote:As a matter of fact, I never even THINK of recording how many tomatoes I get off a plant.
Neither do I but I AM interested in the yield by weight so I'd quite like to compare notes on that. Other characteristics like taste, MW and I can generally recall without assistance; although I do have some side note reminders like "thug - don't grow" or "nice fruit but poor keeper"

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:17 pm
by imafan26
I don't keep precise track either. I do count fruit, but I don't weigh them. Most of the time the birds get the first fruit anyway so it is always less than are actually produced. Tomatoes are not native to the tropics and disease and heat resistance do limit the varieties that can be grown here. Wild tomato plants that run around like weeds always produce more than the ones in the garden or the pots in total number of fruit, but the wild tomatoes are usually small and don't weigh very much.

From observation,
1. Large fruited varieties produce fewer total numbers of fruit. The birds impact the larger tomatoes more than the small fruited tomatoes. Birds would eat all of the tomatoes if they taste good if they are not netted and my yield would be near zero. If the birds leave the tomatoes alone, they aren't very good anyway and I don't want to eat them either no matter how much they produce.
2. Indeterminate tomatoes produce more fruit than determinate ones which makes sense since the determinate plants are smaller and stop producing once the terminal bud sets. I was surprised how long a determinate can produce. I usually can get about 9 months from an indeterminate tomato, but I got 6 months from Charger. I cage my tomatoes so I don't have to prune them. I grow most of the tomatoes in 18 gallon pots and the roots will get out of the pot and go into the ground unless they are on a raised bench. Charger was almost 6 ft tall. The indeterminate tomatoes can be 8-10 ft.
3. Black tomatoes are not good producers, but they are usually have more flavor
4. I did get over 50 Cherokee Purple tomatoes harvested at one time and I had multiple harvests.
5. Sweet 100 was the most prolific cherry I grew and even unprotected, the birds left some for me.
6 Sungold was very sweet, less prolific than sweet 100, but prone to cracking. It was not that sweet unless it was ripe and it would always crack when it was ripe.
7. Brandywine is a huge plant. Fruit do not get as big in the tropics because the day length is much shorter. It is hands down the best tasting fruit. I lost all early fruit to the birds that even ate through the net bags. It is surprisingly heat resistant, but had no resistance to fungal disease and had to be fungicided weekly. I normally, do not do preventive sprays. When it is the rainy season, it does not matter, I could not spray enough to keep the plants from getting mildew.
8. New Big dwarf is a small plant only 2.5 ft tall but with good large fruit. It does not produce a lot since it is so small.
9. Charger produced well medium sized fruit. It was not the tastiest (market tomato flavor), but very disease resistant to mildews and TYLCV. It is not heat resistant so it had June drop and dropped fruit and failed to set in the hottest weather. It did survive longer than I anticipated. It probably could have gone a bit longer, but I stopped fertilizing it because I did not think it was going to last that long.
10. Tomatoes bred by the University Extension are nematode resistant, resistant to 3 races of fusarium, verticillium, and moderately mildew tolerant. They are also heat tolerant to about 88 degrees. The skins are very tough and they are o.k. but will not win any prize for flavor. I can't even grow them now since they were bred in 1960's and they are not resistant to TYLCV. TYLCV is likely to be a permanent problem in my environment.
11. The currants were the tiniest and sweetest tomatoes of all.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:36 am
by TomatoNut95
I guess I never keep a record of how much I get off one plant because large fruited types never produce highly in my backyard. And since the fruits never reach a good, large size anyway, I don't bother weighing them. I just eat them. I care more about taste-testing, and what's inside the fruit rather than how much it weighs since I do not like overly sweet tomatoes like White Cherry or really juicy kinds like Yellow Perfection. With the exception of growing cherry types to toss in my mouth whole for a snack, I prefer meaty, sandwhich types like German Pink, Cherokee Purple, Bradley and Beefsteak.

@imafan is right, black tomatoes aren't the best producers; and I find the plants challenging to grow because they just seem to be puny growers. But the fruits do have an interesting taste. I found both Blue Beauty and Black Beauty to be pleasant and meaty. Both are nice sandwich slicers.

I own two dwarfs: Tiny Tim and Micro Tom. I am quite pleased with Tiny Tim, despite it's problem for becoming top-heavy. It seems to be a prolific producer of cherry sized red fruits. The Micro Tom was fun to grow but I was disappointed in the bitter taste of the itty bitty fruit. If I grow it again, it would be for pleasure and not for eating purposes.

My Heinz Classic Ketchup tomato has excellent flavored fruits on compact, determinate plants. However, I find the plants to not be very productive.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:48 am
by Vanisle_BC
Haha, 'to each his/her own'! I find it as hard to understand why someone would record the number of tomatoes per plant, as some folks find it to understand why I'm interested in the yield by weight.

Incidentally, among the varieties I've tried over the years, (nearly all indeterminate OP) the ones with the largest fruits (ETA - medium size - about 2") have also produced the greatest yield by weight. Oddly enough in more than 20 years I've only had two major failures; one to blight (before I began providing rain protection) and one to deer, before I beefed up my deer protection :). Birds don't bother them. And for at least 10 years they were always in the same bed without apparent problems.

I'd still be interested to hear what kind of yields any of you get per plant, if you've kept records. My mother used to say "Curiosity killed the cat" but seriously, I think she just heard that somehwere; it's not true :-()

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:19 am
by applestar
OK, I’ll toss in a few pennies :D At first I was a bit shy because while I take copious notes sometimes, my records are hardly ever complete for the entire season. :oops: Usually at some point in the middle of the harvest when the avalanche and heat gets to be too much, I enter survival mode - get out there, pick what needs picking, do the absolute minimum that needs doing, wash harvest, take pics, then scuttle back inside (and collapse).

The kind of tomato flavors I like might not be quite the same as yours, and I tend to be more observant of the ones I like. My preference is for tomatoes that have strong yummy front end flavor — I am disappointed when first bite seems tasteless. This is usually expressed as sweet or salty. I think good dark brown or black varieties tend to be salty and good pink or purple tend to be sweet. Some reds are sweet and some reds are salty. THIS is where many yellows and whites fall short — I have a very short list of favorites in those colors. They MUST have great middle flavor which I call “umami” — this is when you find yourself involuntarily making yum.yum, nom.nom noises. Then a good lingering tangy note that makes your mouth continue to water even after you’ve swallowed. What I call ACID will make your mouth and lips burn and hurt. Lingering acid is OK as long as you have good sweet and middle flavors dancing around in your mouth, but not if that’s all you get — those are spitters.

That said, I have been looking for extra early producers. I generally don’t grow more than 2 or 3 varieties that are known late producers, and only if they are successfully started a week or so earlier (sometimes, because it’s significantly colder, they don’t start/germinate well even with heat mat.) I am a snob when it comes to what I (and family) consider GREAT tasting varieties and will grow them regardless of how stingy they are in production — 2 or 3 good fruits per plant is not unheard of. Unless I’m trying to grow way too many different varieties that year (like 150+ @2 plants each), I try (and have been tending more towards) growing more plants of the returning favorites. I agree cherry tomato varieties can produce overwhelming number of fruits, and I’m NOT going to try growing several different multiflora types all at once any more — that turned into a nightmare. But it IS fun to grow at least one or two multiflora types, especially when they are tasty.

I like the class of varieties defined as Dwarfs and always grow a bed of them — at least 6 or more. They are not always from the Dwarf Project. I’ve been trying to find ones that taste the way I (and family) like. I believe more recent releases have been more productive and also able to produce larger fruits. The ones I group as dwarfs tend to grow larger in the ground but will do very well when grown in SIP’s. They are also said to grow well in only 5 gal buckets, but I can’t keep them sufficiently watered that way.

In addition to regular indeterminates, I also identify what I call XT varieties — the ones that need the really tall 6 ft + support and need to be planted separately or with intent (usually with determinates below to be removed when they are finished. I’m starting to explore a bit more determinates, but I used to not like them. Some dwarfs are determinates or semi-determinates and can fit between/under the XT’s.

I am also exploring smaller patio container tomatoes and hanging basket tomatoes. These are upright micro dwarfs and drooping short internode varieties and are typically determinates.

...ah this is going to get long. I can’t seem to talk about production without identifying the different categories first. I will come back and identify some of my favorites next time. I ran out of time for now. :roll: :wink:

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:23 am
by PaulF
After having gone through my notebooks these are the largest producers of each year. I do not count cherry tomatoes or salad sized and all listed are good tasting. My garden rarely has disease problems but weather tends to be the biggest factor concerning numbers and sizes. Best production does not indicate my favorite for the year. I still like blacks and hearts the best and I really like the big fruits no matter the shape. 2020 will see the first year without cherries or salad sized since neither of us eat many so I will save room for great big slicers.

Iowa Garden
2002: Kellogg's Breakfast, 60 at 87 pounds
2003: Omar's Lebanese, 27 at 29lbs
2004: Neve's Azorean Red: 64 at 50 lbs

Nebraska Garden
2005: moved to new area mid-summer and only planted a few plants. gardened in soil not previously anything but weeds and brush. Had to start over with soil conditioning.
2006: Cuostralee, 49 at 40lbs
2007: Brandywine (Sudduth Strain) 49 at 35Lbs
2008: Butter and Bull Heart, 59 at 40 lbs.
2009: Mexican Yellow, 97 at 52 lbs
2010: Dixie Golden Giant, 36 at 31 lbs
2011: Aunt Lou's Underground Railroad, 87 at 35 lbs.
2012: Tsar Kolokol,90 at 40 lbs
2013: Red Butter Heart, 34 at 39 lbs.
2014: Church, 19 at 17 lbs (worst production year ever)
2015: Lescana Romanian Heart,36 at 23 lbs-flavor only rated 6/10; Marianna's Peace,46 at 22 lbs- 8/10 flavor
2016: Kolb Pink, 51 at 35 lbs
2017: Marianna's Peace,115 at 51 lbs; Russian Bogytar,128 at 48 lbs; Big Cheef, 133 at 44 lbs
2018: Bear Creek, 55 at 30 lbs
2019: Heatherington Pink,79 tomatoes at 41 lbs. Ten other varieties rated 9/10 for flavor and production was close. Best year in memory

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:08 pm
by TomatoNut95
The word 'salty' never enters my mind when taste-testing. Black Krim was deemed as salty, and when I tried that one years ago, I didn't get a 'salty' impression. I also don't get a salty impression from my Black Beauty. Both it and my Blue Beauty have a mild, unique flavor.

The most tasteless tomato I've ever grown was Snow Fairy. It's flavor was just as horribly blah as a store-bought tomato. The most tastefull I've tried is my Mystery, but still didn't think of it as salty. Acidic, perhaps?

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:42 pm
by applestar
I know weird eh? I haven’t tasted Black Krim in a while, but I agree for me/grown in my garden, I had not tasted salt. For a long time, I wondered what the heck people were talking about ...then I came across an actually salty front end tomato. I think that first one was a cherry. Then more of them as time went on. I never salt my first few tastes of a tomato, so you can imagine y DH’s confusion when I rounded in on him and accused him of salting my portion of the tomatoes. :lol:

I sometimes taste salt as front end flavor on Indoor Winter Tomatoes.

I think if the tomato has stronger sweet, the tastebuds jump on the sweetness first, and the salty impression is pushed to the background as a supporting flavors that ENHANCE the sweetness, making it harder to identify. I rather think this is why salting improves the flavor. I was actually startled to find out some people sprinkle SUGAR on tomatoes.

BTW — it’s normal in my household to sprinkle salt on watermelons, and we have discovered we can get similar enhanced flavor from other melons, too... just like salting cucumbers.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 pm
by Vanisle_BC
PaulF, Thanks for posting all that information. I'm confused (surprise!). :wink: .......

When you say, for instance, 60 at 87lb, do you mean 60 tomatoes averaging almost 1.5 lb each? Those would be enormous. A table I picked up somewhwere suggests a 3 inch tomato only weighs around 6 oz. I just weighed some from the fridge:

4, grocery store Roma - 14 oz total or 3.5 oz each
1, 2.5" longkeeper (last of our 2019 harvest) - 4.5 oz.

On the other hand if you mean 60 plants for 87 pounds, that would be very low production? My own results, which I consider inexpert or un-intensive, vary from about 3lb to 11lb per plant. For those who count fruits, that would mean my Longkeeper gave about 30 tomatoes each. This accords with our recollection of the space they took up in storage.

All very interesting .........

Nearly all my plants are indeterminate vining, grown to 6 feet or more in raised beds.

Applestar & TomatoNut; I tend to take taste comments with a pinch of salt (sorry!)
- Everybody's taste buds & sensitivities are different.
- Everybody's words for describing taste experience are different.
But I do love 'yum.yum, nom.nom noises' as a way of saying 'I know what I like and this is it.'

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:24 pm
by PaulF
That would be the number of tomatoes at the total pounds on one plant.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:54 pm
by imafan26
Even if I planted the same variety as some of you, my environment, soil, and cultural habits are different and the tomato will likely be smaller since I just have fewer hours of daylight. I have gotten fruit up to 14 oz.( I actually did weigh a few), but not over a pound. Delicious and Brandywine are capable of going over a pound, just not here. Culture and conditions will also affect things like BER, thick membranes, and fruit texture and taste. I was told that I actually am overfeeding my tomatoes. They are in 18 gallon pots and for the most part they are watered daily. They are over 8 ft tall and almost always will top the trellis and come back halfway down to the ground. The tall tomatoes always go through the bird netting as well. I was told the fruit might have better flavor if they were allowed to dry out a little bit more and that tall plants increased total yield, but I was still over fertilizing them because more fertilizer when to support growth at the expense of fruit. I still had more fruit than I could use.

You have different kinds of birds species than I do. Mejiro, Java rice birds, and bulbuls are alien birds that were probably brought in as pets and released. They like seeds and fruit. The native honey creepers are rare, and usually are in the mountains and valleys.

I agree we all have our likes for how we want tomatoes to taste. I do like the low acid tomatoes and the fruit needs to be firm not mealy and I don't like plastic skins. I do sometimes like the complex flavors like Brandywine, but it is hard to find varieties that will grow here that have those qualities and can be easily grown. I also can relate to how Applestar describes the umami taste.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:02 pm
by Vanisle_BC
PaulF wrote:That would be the number of tomatoes at the total pounds on one plant.
Thanks, Paul: 60 - 1.5 lb tomatoes from a single plant? For me that would be amazing. You're obviously treating them very well. A video I've been watching suggests that for 1 to 2lb fruits (Brandywine, Virginia Sweets) you should limit production to 6 or 8 per plant! Everybody's garden(ing) is different though.

I'm trying to plan my tomato year to get a mix of the varieties we enjoy, totaling about 100lb, in fewer plants than I usually grow. Hence my original question. One of your Kellog's would just about supply us for a year. Two could be a surfeit.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:12 pm
by Vanisle_BC
imafan26 wrote:You have different kinds of birds species than I do.
I also have grapes :).

Juncos, Towhees, Stellers Jays, Robins, Starlings, Crows, various Woodpeckers etc - all seem to prefer the grapes, which is fine with me. We have lots of Bald Eagles too, and Turkey Buzzards/Vultures but I've never seen them in the garden; which is also fine with me.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:43 pm
by imafan26
The large birds are heavy. The birds I have are small and bulbuls are a little bigger than a cardinal (I have those too). I grow mostly larger peppers, peppers that hang down instead of point up, and peppers plants that are small like thai hot that cannot support the weight of a bird. The hanging and larger peppers are harder for the birds to get to and swallow whole. I grow Super Chili because it looks and tastes similar to a Hawaiian pepper but are a little bigger. Unless I cage a Hawaiian pepper, I would not get any fruit since the birds will eat all the fruit and only leave caps. Papaya and tomatoes need to be picked as soon as they blush or the birds will eat the fruit. After awhile, the birds will even go after green tomatoes if they are not under bird netting.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:51 pm
by TomatoNut95
Thankfully birds do not touch my garden. The occasional Phoebe will sit on a stake and poop, and wrens want to nest in pots, but no birds go pecking on the fruits. My main pest problems on tomatoes are the hornworms.

@Imafan....seriously? 8ft tomato plants?? Whoa. The tallest one I ever got was my Beefsteak which reached about 5ft.

Has anybody ever grown Italian Tomato Tree or Triple L Climbing tomato?

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:02 pm
by pepperhead212
I've never grown those, but I have had some cherry tomatoes that sent out vines along a 14 ft trellis, until I trained them back, when they'd reach the end. I can't imagine growing things like that, without a trellis!

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:15 pm
by PaulF
Most of the tomato varieties grown in my garden are between 7 and 10 feet tall. Some will extend up and out of the 6 foot tomato cages and drape down to the ground. This photo was taken in mid-June with lots more growth coming and tomatoes forming.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:27 am
by digitS'
Paul,

You know, you are really likely to pique interest in some of those varieties :wink: . Some, I haven't heard of; several, I believe were more popular a few years ago. And then, that photograph!!! You are showing why gardeners should keep records, to inform not only others but to inform themselves through time and experiences.

I suspect that " 2014 ... worst production year ever" might be explained by weather. I'm not sure if 2019 was the worst ever but it may have been only slightly above that in my tomato patch. (worst ever with the peppers and eggplant) Early season yo-yo temperatures was the cause and seriously limited plant growth.

Perhaps it may sound odd but, besides your highly-productive varieties, your list also makes me curious how Church might do for me. If there were others that struggled through "okay," it might be good information for some of us :) .

Steve

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:39 am
by TomatoNut95
I know last year wasn't a good growing season for me. Temperatures were too high, causing blossom drop on both tomatoes and peppers. Then later, lots of rain caused my tomatoes to split. Some of the peppers got sunscald. Potted tomatoes just didn't do good. They barely produced a few puny fruits a plant (with the exception of that nasty White Cherry) then my Mystery got BER. The few tomatoes I tried to grow for fall got infested by aphids or something and I killed the plants by spritzing them with cooking oil.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:52 pm
by applestar
Fantastic garden and results PaulF! I suppose you save your own seeds and so some of your large and productive variety selections have been improved over time? I have a couple of specialty strains that produced HUGE fruits, but I grew them only for fun as part of general trial so didn’t pursue — maybe I should dig those seeds out and try them out again this year. 8)

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:55 pm
by PaulF
I only save seeds from the hard to get varieties. I purchased many of Tania's selections before she closed up shop and will begin to save many of those. The easier to find but still great varieties I purchase from my favorite seed sellers so they will continue to offer seeds. Most of the tomatoes I grow are relatively average in size, but I do like the big ones. Actually the varieties diminish in size and productivity as the seed age increases. Most of the seed saved varieties have performed pretty well even though I do not bag blossoms. Crossing does not seem to be a problem for me.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:30 pm
by TomatoNut95
Tania's selection?

@Paul, I need some tips on growing an Oxheart. The plant I grew refused to produce.

I never blossom bag my tomato blossoms either. Cross- pollination by insects is not a problem for me because bees never visit my garden unless I grow cucumbers. As a matter of fact, I've only seen like very few honeybees this whole year; and I know there used to be hives nearby. They probably died due to lack of wildflowers around.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:49 pm
by Vanisle_BC
I only discovered Tania when she was about to quit, but her database id still up at tatianiastomatobase.com. - a fantastic reference set.

I also save seed but don't bag blossoms and I've had no crossing problems, although I think my Camp Joy look a bit bigger than when I started with them. If anything starts to 'go off' I'll buy new seed. All my varieties are fairly easy to find.

Paul, have you seen whether seed taken from less vital plants, grown from older seed, usually has full vigor?

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:58 pm
by Vanisle_BC
TomatoNut95 wrote:Cross- pollination by insects is not a problem for me because bees never visit my garden unless I grow cucumbers.
TomatoNut: My reading suggests cross pollination of tomatoes, even by insects, is very rare because of their reproductive 'traits'. I'd spell that out but I always forget the full details so I just accept the fact :).

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:09 pm
by PaulF
Vanisle_BC wrote:.Paul, have you seen whether seed taken from less vital plants, grown from older seed, usually has full vigor?
I save seeds from the best looking, most like the tomato the variety is supposed to be like. That means the one I really want to eat is the one the seeds come from. It is best, I feel, to used several nice tomatoes as seed tomatoes. If a plant is so sickly it does not produce a viable fruit I would pass on that one. I have grown out seeds up to 20 years old and they will produce healthy plants and good tomatoes. As for growing heart shaped tomatoes, for me, there is no real difference in how I treat them. A tomato is a tomato.
Vanisle_BC wrote:TomatoNut: My reading suggests cross pollination of tomatoes, even by insects, is very rare because of their reproductive 'traits'. I'd spell that out but I always forget the full details so I just accept the fact .
From what I have been able to gather it is the way most all tomato flowers are situated that discourage crossing. The flowers hang down so that other flower's pollen has a difficult path. The same is true for many insects who like to approach flowers from the top. Small wasps and flies can get in but for me it doesn't happen. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:57 pm
by pepperhead212
@paulf That's good to know, that you haven't had problems with tomatoes crossing. I rarely save seeds, except for something I may not find again, or if I get a plant with better characteristics, like fruit size or disease resistance. Peppers and eggplants, OTOH, definitely cross easily, which I found out early on, so I'll keep bagging those blossoms, when I save seeds.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:22 am
by TomatoNut95
Should you not save seeds from fruits that have BER? Or sunscald?

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:13 am
by applestar
I think sun scald is pretty much environmental, but while BER is too, maybe its possible to promote “tendency” to not get BER ... or “BER resistant strain” by not saving from plants that experienced BER vs plants that did of the same variety?

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:28 am
by PaulF
TomatoNut95 wrote:Should you not save seeds from fruits that have BER? Or sunscald?
This is just my opinion. Since BER is a physiological problem and not a disease, there is nothing to say the seeds would not be viable. However, BER tends to happen earlier in the growing season for several reasons and most tomato plants and their fruits grow out of the situation. Therefore I would wait for a tomato without BER to use as a seed source.

Sun scald being a skin condition would be another story. If picked soon after the sunburn, the interior and the seed locules most likely did not receive any damage and could be used. Again, I would choose another tomato without damage just to be sure.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:01 pm
by TomatoNut95
So @applestar, are you saying that if I continually save seed off my 'mystery' variety that do not show BER, that somewhere along the line, I might could 'disinherit' the BER problem from the tomato? If that works, I wonder if I could also remove the fruit cracking and stem split if I could save seeds from a plant that did not promote those problems either. But seeing as how both fruit cracking and stem split may have been caused by weather, it may not work.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:05 pm
by Vanisle_BC
To treat blossom end rot, I've seen it suggested to sprinkle dry epsom salts around the base of the plant.

My books say that tomato (and pea) flowers develop both male & female parts before opening, so they will generally self pollinate before wind or insects can get to their pollen. The advice to shake or vibrate the plants aims to help in this self-fertilization.

Re: Tomato yield per plant.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:08 pm
by applestar
@vanisle_BC, You are correct about the tomato blossoms — I encounter the phenomenon when I’m trying to hand cross-pollinate — I have to remove the male anthercone from immature unopened blossoms before the anthercone starts to produce pollen because by the time the tomato blossoms open, the anthercone is already starting to drop pollen on the female stigma inside the blossom.


@TomatoNut95 — It’s an idle and simplistic speculation of mine since we already know some varieties are more susceptible than others. So, assuming growing conditions are the same, if one plant of same variety showed less or no BER on fruits that developed and matured at the same time (I.e. under same environmental growing conditions) compared to other plants of the same variety In the same bed, then I might wonder if this particular plant carries genetic tendency to be somehow less prone. PaulF is correct though, that accepted wisdom dictates that the seeds for saving should be harvested from the very BEST fruit from the very best plant.