Vanisle_BC
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Tomatoes with hard green tops.

Why do some tomato varieties stay green & relatively hard on top while the bottoms ripen normally? In our garden it seems it's happening more this year than previously, but some types are very susceptible while others are immune.

Affected in my garden this year:
Latah
Cherokee Purple
Ailsa Craig.

Unaffected:
Black Vernissage
Camp Joy (Chadwick's Cherry)
Jaune Flamee
Longkeeper
Mystery Keeper
Sungold
Sweetie

What's your experience with this?

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applestar
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Part of this is genetic. The other part is heat stress.

genetic part —
How The Taste Of Tomatoes Went Bad (And Kept On Going) : The Salt : NPR
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/20 ... t-on-going


The researchers discovered that this natural tomato gene, when it works properly, produces those green shoulders on tomatoes. The darker green color comes from the chlorophyll in plant structures called chloroplasts, which is what converts sunlight into sugars for the plant. In fact, those dark green shoulders were making those old tomatoes sweeter and creating more flavor.

The uniform-ripening mutation disabled this gene.

"We find out that, oh my goodness, this is one of the factors that led to the deterioration of flavor in the commercial tomato," says Harry Klee, a professor of horticulture at the University of Florida.
...if the variety is prone to cracking and splitting around the stem, the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the fruit is useless anyway, and if the bottom part tastes great, then I could live with that.... but when you do find varieties that have uniform-ripening AND minimum blemish AND great taste, it would be a shame if you had to discard that much of the fruit.

Vanisle_BC
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applestar wrote:Part of this is genetic. The other part is heat stress.

genetic part —
How The Taste Of Tomatoes Went Bad (And Kept On Going) : The Salt : NPR
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/20 ... t-on-going
I think in my case this year, early heat stress - a very hot May into June - must take most of the blame; with genetics likely deciding which varieties 'succumb' to green shoulderism, and which don't.

I don't see a linkage of good flavor with either heirloom status or green shoulders, but of course flavor is a subjective issue as well as possibly affected by local soil/weather conditions. In our case we're deciding not to grow Cherokee Purple next year because it's turned out bland (to our palate) as well as being green shouldered and - for our preference - a bit too big & kind of ugly. We prefer the round, un-pleated smaller shapes. (Sorry, all you CP enthusiasts!)

Our all-round winner for 2019 is probably Camp Joy - round & red, moderately sweet and slightly tangy. Although supposed to be a 1-inch cherry (?), over the years in our garden it has become almost double that size. I wonder if it has crossed with one of its neighbors but that seems unlikely because so far the size increase is consistent from plant to plant, rather than random.

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TomatoNut95
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I grew Cherokee Purple this year, it was great! Beautiful color and sweet taste. My main trouble this year was blossom drop and fruit split. I'm trying to give away some tomato seeds in the seed giveaway section. Have a browse and if you see any you want to try next year, let me know!

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Gary350
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TomatoNut95 wrote:I grew Cherokee Purple this year, it was great! Beautiful color and sweet taste. My main trouble this year was blossom drop and fruit split. I'm trying to give away some tomato seeds in the seed giveaway section. Have a browse and if you see any you want to try next year, let me know!
I read online best way to make flower plants produce more flowers is feed them lots of potassium. That made me curious so I did a search for how to make vegetable plants produce more flowers = blossoms and more fruit. It said, feed plants lots of potassium to produce more blossoms and more fruit. Then I found information that says, if a plant produces more blossoms than food supply can support the plant will drop blossoms. I burn lots of wood, tree limbs, boards, logs, anything wood to get lots of wood ash which is potash = potassium this is about 20% to 30% calcium. I dig a hole 8" deep to plant tomatoes pour in about 1 cup of wood ash stir into the soil then cover with 1" of soil then plant the tomato plants or seeds. I also side dress plants with lots of potassium wood ash. All my tomato plants load up with blossoms then tomatoes. Calcium prevents BER. I never have tomato plants that drop blossoms. I have seen apple trees drop 50% to 70% of the blossoms but feed them potassium they don't drop blossoms. This year I put lots of wood ash on pepper plants and my plants are loaded with blossoms and peppers. Even now I side dress plants with potassium = mix wood ash with water then pour it around plants once a week. My pepper plants usually have no peppers all summer then blossoms and peppers in Oct but this year plants have been loaded with blossoms and peppers for 3 months already 2 more months to go. Try feeding your tomato plants with potassium see if that stops plants from dropping blossoms. When my tomatoes split is it always after a hard rain too much water causes tomatoes to split. The hard green thing in tomato center seems to be the variety, some have it and some don't.

dveg
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The idea that potassium promotes flowering and fruiting is understood, but there are some caveats. For cucurbits, at least, flowers ONLY form on new foliage. So if you don't have new foliage, you don't have flowers. Nitrogen nutrients drive foliage production. So nitrogen deficiency will prevent flowering. In fact, low (or even high) nitrification is a recognized cause of tomato blossom drop. Also, be aware that wood ash is only recommended as an amendation if you have acidic soil. If you have alkaline soil, it'll make it worse. My soil is alkaline and, to me, wood ash is toxic waste.

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TomatoNut95
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Yeah, @applestar reminded me that excess nitrogen causes excess foliage. I bought some bloom booster fertilize to give tomatoes.

Another thing to contribute to blossom drop is high humidity or temperatures. If it's too humid or hot, pollination fails; the blossom won't set, and therefore falls off.

imafan26
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I agree, green shoulders is often a genetic trait, but the fruit is still fine to eat. Larger tomatoes will produce less fruit. Smaller tomatoes will produce more. Blossoms will fail to pollinate or drop when the plants are in heat and drought stress. Most tomatoes are not heat resistant. The heat resistant tomatoes can usually go up to 90 degrees and a few can go a little higher like Florida 91, solar flare, heatmaster, and sunchaser. Even those will not tolerate a prolonged heatwave.

I grew Charger this year for the first time. It is not heat tolerant and it had some blossom drop and blossom end rot on a few fruit. The leaves also had some physiological leaf curl. Now, that the temperatures have come back under 90 again, they are able to hold on to their fruit and the blossoms that survived have set.

I did clean up my garden in August so I removed some of the plants that were blocking the sun from the tomatoes so it probably put the tomatoes in more sun than they liked. My tomatoes are usually in full sun, but the plants in the main garden blocks the tomatoes from the afternoon sun.

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TomatoNut95
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I tried Oxheart. Didn't produce whatsoever. Blossoms all fell off. Stupid plant. However, Bradley and Beefsteak were my best producers. Not so much off my Parks Whopper or Beefwhatever. Black Cherry didn't do so hot; fruits split. White Cherry did fair, but I really didn't like the flavor of the fruits, so ended up letting the plant go. 'Mystery' tomato did semi-fair production wise, and loved that flavor; best so far I've tasted! However, bad splitting came with it, both in the plant stems and fruit.



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