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rainbowgardener
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Re: Garden wishlists and ideas for next growing season?

Thanks for all the netting tips, applestar. I do have a viburnum planted right next to the blueberries, but it is young and hasn't fruited yet. Maybe next year. Also only about eight feet away is a beautyberry, which is currently covered in berries. But the birds don't seem to like those berries real well. The only thing I have ever seen eating them is mockingbird. And they are late season, so not around when blueberries are.

Re in and out. One thing I have done with plastic, when I had homemade mini greenhouse (shelving system covered in plastic for seed starting), was cut the front panel in half lengthwise and then put velcro strips down the halves. Worked real well for that. Not sure how it would work on netting, but maybe it could be jury rigged. Or maybe tent the bushes in clear plastic over a frame and just put lots of small holes in it for rain and to prevent heat build up.

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TomatoNut95 wrote:Speaking of berries, has anybody ever grown Garden Huckleberries? I was eyeing some from Baker Creek yesterday, but some peoples reviews were complaining about the taste. I was hunting for an easy to grow berry that I could just eat fresh as a healthy snack, or even make a sweet juice from. I was also looking at their Mango Melon(Vine Peach) and some people were fussing about it to.
I looked into the Garden Huckleberries a while back. As far as I could tell, these are previously “cultivated” (in an old fashioned sense rather than the modern ... more like “selected”) member of solanacea and cousin to deadly nightshade. The fruits must be fully ripe.black to be considered safe, and there are groups of people genetically disposed to be immune, while there are also groups of people pre-disposed to be more sensitive. Immune people do not taste the bitterness that others might detect.

At the time my children were small so that almost immediately put a flag on this, and I already have mild sensitivity to tomatoes, so that was another reason not to try growing it. I HAVE tried growing ground cherries (yellow fruits) and had no issues other than that they have a common pest with potatoes and eggplants that completely destroyed them one year.

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Gary350
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TomatoNut95 wrote:Lavender is one of the things I want to try next year...any tips on that? So I got on Park Seed website and requested a catalogue. Gonna see what awesome varieties they offer t that might be cheaper than Baker Creek but I may just get from Park what Baker doesn't have, like the Big Bertha- and I noticed they carry Celebrity tomato. Baker has free shipping on their stuff now, but I've noticed an increase in the packet prices to make up for it.
Wife planted 6 different types of Lavender along the patio it did not do well only 4 hours of sun all day. I read online Lavender needs full sun all day it is a desert plant. I will never plant Celebrity tomatoes again they have as much flavor as wet cardboard. I read online grocery store tomatoes are Celebrity they grow a perfect size & shape excellent for selling.

I would like to plant several types of berries but know nothing about berries. We want blueberries and others.

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Ha-ha, 'wet cardboard'! I like that! It definitely describes store-bought tomatoes! I have even tried home-grown ones that tasted like that, like Dwarf Snow Fairy. I bought it from BC many years ago with hopes of trying a dwarf for the first time. The fruits were just...blah, like you said, 'wet cardboard'. As of 2018, I ranked my Heinz Ketchup tomato to be the strongest tasting I've ever tried. But this year my 'mystery' variety outranked it with it's superb, intense flavor! Definitely a keeper if it comes true to type in 2020!

When your wife planted Lavender, did she do it from seed, or transplants? I have seeds, and I'm really not very good at growing herbs from seed except Basil.

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Gary350
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TomatoNut95 wrote:Ha-ha, 'wet cardboard'! I like that! It definitely describes store-bought tomatoes! I have even tried home-grown ones that tasted like that, like Dwarf Snow Fairy. I bought it from BC many years ago with hopes of trying a dwarf for the first time. The fruits were just...blah, like you said, 'wet cardboard'. As of 2018, I ranked my Heinz Ketchup tomato to be the strongest tasting I've ever tried. But this year my 'mystery' variety outranked it with it's superb, intense flavor! Definitely a keeper if it comes true to type in 2020!

When your wife planted Lavender, did she do it from seed, or transplants? I have seeds, and I'm really not very good at growing herbs from seed except Basil.
Wife bought Lavender plants at the Amish Garden Store. I have good luck with some herb seeds if I sprinkle 100 seeds in a small spot in the garden about 30% germinate and grow. Marjoram is an exception the whole package of seeds germinates but they never live longer than a few weeks. Plants all seem to get stem rot fall over and die. TN humidity is very high 100% according to TV weather until hot summer temperatures come. I planted Marjoram seeds many times an plants many times too. Marjoram plants don't live long either about 2 months. Oregano does good. Thyme has done good in the past but past 2 years it did not do good. 2 years in a row rosemary has not much flavor.

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I tried growing Rosemary from seed once. NONE of the seeds germinated, and that was the last time I tried Rosemary from seed. Cilantro is another difficult one, I gave up on it to. I've tried parsley, but I haven't done it in a while either, 'cause Parsley's not my favorite herb. I like Onion Chives, and I tried those from seed, but few germinated and the ones that did died of....something....So on herbs it's much easier for me to just buy an already up plant.

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It's intriguing how one gardener's can't-grow-it plant is another's weed-like survivor. Parsley and coriander (AKA cilantro) self-seed in my yard, to the point of becoming a nuisance. And we have decades-old lavender bushes that get way out of control, although Gary calls them a desert plant. On this raincoast that's quite funny. Then again beets are often referred to as one of the easiest vegetables to grow. Tell me about it, eh? They just don't 'work' for me.

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Vanisle_BC wrote:It's intriguing how one gardener's can't-grow-it plant is another's weed-like survivor. Parsley and coriander (AKA cilantro) self-seed in my yard, to the point of becoming a nuisance. And we have decades-old lavender bushes that get way out of control, although Gary calls them a desert plant. On this raincoast that's quite funny. Then again beets are often referred to as one of the easiest vegetables to grow. Tell me about it, eh? They just don't 'work' for me.
That is funny. I was reading about herbs and came across a list of herbs they claim are desert plants Lavender was on the list. I guess maybe that proves you can't believe everything your read or hear. It is good to know Lavender grows like a weed in Canada. It is good to know Parsley & Cilantro grow like weeds in Canada I have a hard time growing Cilantro in TN. This gives me an idea to plant Cilantro under a fish aquarium in winter.

When I was 27 years old an old woman told me she sprinkles beet seeds in the snow and when weather finally get nice beets have grown and she has a good crop of beets. First time I tried that I tossed beet seeds out in the snow about Feb then totally forgot I did that. Spring came it was time to plant the garden and there were beets growing every where. Next time I sprinkled beet seeds in a row in the snow then spring came and most of the beets were in the row. I have tried many time to plant beets in the garden like other seeds if they germinate they die. Only thing that works for me is plant beets seeds in the snow in Feb..

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I was reading in my 1001 Gardening Secrets book when I came across a 'secret' that said a type of sweet Basil called Nufar is supposed to be resistant to fusarium wilt. That disease is probably what wiped out many of my Sweet Basil early this year. Anybody heard of Nufar Basil, 'cause I never have.

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digitS'
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I have Nufar and Gecofure basil in my garden every year over the last several.

Before these fusarium resistance types came out, that disease problem was so bad I'd reached a level of basil desperation!

That desperation may have something to do with my willingness to try these varieties with such weird names. I mean, going from "sweet" to "gekofure?!"

Pepperhead has useful comments about basil on his garden thread.
pepperhead212 wrote: ..., and I tried several smaller genovese types, and Gecofure was the best of those, ...
There are now several more to choose from. I don't intend to be without resistant varieties in the future.

Steve

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Adding THIS to my next year’s project list :> :kidding: :clap:
Nicolas Abdelkader reimagines planes and ships as giant planters - CNN Style
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/nicol ... index.html

Image

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I just came across this old lady. The logo at top corner of video indicates she is 76 yrs old. In this video she said digging individual 1 ft deep holes with the post-hole digger is very labor intensive — last year, she dug them by herself and it took her the whole day just to dig the holes. In this video year, with her son’s help, the work only took 1-1/2 hours.

- Here, she is planting started corn seedlings extra early with protection while the outside temperature and weather is still not good for corn — video was in February — she said this is how she outwits corn earworms and harvests in May.

- Towards the end o the video, she said she’s going home to drill ventilation holes in the low tunnel cover plastic — she said her son helped her with this part also. I never realized you could make vent holes for the row cover plastic by DRILLING into the unopened rolls.

- Those flexible rods she is using to support the low tunnel is apparently ubiquitous in Japan. I started looking for them 3 years ago, and couldn’t find them in the USA unless ordered wholesale from specialty vendor or from Ali Baba. They had just started to be more available with different lengths and color choices via Amazon and starting to be within my budget ... then the pandemic hit with subsequent total disruption in global shipping (these things basically all were from China).

- I think they are like the kids bike flag rods — super flexible Fiberglas and thin but weatherproof and good shape/form memory. I wondered if deep snow road edge/driveway/fire hydrant markers — the kind that flexes and bends when driven over, then spring right back — would work — I was originally looking for 7 feet to 8 feet rods (medium high tunnels) which added to shipping/handling problems 6 feet+ requires freight shipping ...but here she is using only 6 feet rods. I’m going to start looking again, but might consider trying to acquire the 6 feet ones first.




...as usual, if you are curious and would like me to translate/explain parts of the video, let me know.

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I'm amazed at her flexibility at her age. I haven't been able to squat for a lot of years snow. She must do this all the time to be able to be so nimble.
I actually understood some of the words she used. She does not have a strong regional accent and she spoke slowly so I could hear the words distinctly. Of course, I did not get every word, just the common ones.

I have row covers but they are not useful in the tropics because they heat up too much. I don't plant in rows much either. I have used weed block and planted through them. I like the bulb planter that she is using to make the holes. I have to cut the weed block and dig out the soil with a shovel.

I actually have hoop supports that I got a long time ago when I bought the remay. I used those for many years for other things. I may still have a few of them lying around. I also used short pieces of rebar and pvc pipe over the rebar to support hoops. Those are easy to make and when the it is easy to take apart and store when it is not needed.

This year I am using commercial net bags. I used to make my own out of tulle. My own bags work but tulle is not uv or bird resistant so they don't last very long. I can make them any size I need them to be. The birds would tear them open or eat through the netting. So far the commercial bags are protecting the tomatoes, the birds are only getting the tomatoes I have not wrapped. I got long bags that are fine to cover one tomato or a cluster of them. It works on the cucumber and zucchini but once they fruit is longer than 10 inches the bags get pushed off. I also found the bag purse string closure is not very tight so I have to use tie wire to reinforce the closure. The bags are washable and reusable so I will see how long they will last.

Since the summers have been extra dry for a few years now, I have changed my potting mix from 50/50 to 60/40 peat lite. I am using the bags from the potting soil and compost and cutting them to fit my pots as a mulch. The white side is reflective and that helps deter some bugs and the plastic mulch helps keep the soil from drying out, keeps the weeds down, and reduces dirt splashing on plants like tomatoes.

I would like to build a cover for my main garden similar to the tent I had at my community garden. That may be a long term wish list project for me for some time in the future. It is something that I probably will need to have help to get done. The tent frame at my community garden provided side panels for trellising and crw went over the peaked roof so that I could plant squash in summer. With the tent bare, I could plant corn in the 10x10 space. I really miss that.

I still need to rebuild the rest of my orchid shade benches that were knocked down by the neighbor's vines and the wind. I have restored two frames and recovered one. I have one more bench to reframe. I don't need the cover on one bench now because I am using it as a nursery bench. My nursery bench has things that need to move to the ground. I just don't know where to put it all yet.

I did get new window box supports the wires that supported my almost 30 year old wire window box holders were rusted out. When I took them off to weed and repot the orchids a lot of the support hangers broke. I found 3 on amazon so I am hoping I can wire the old boxes to the new supports. I have not been able to find window boxes like the ones I had before. Most of the new ones are plastic and don't drain well enough and they are not designed to hang on a fence or concrete wall.

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Well, that was remarkable. Exhausting watching her even before her son showed up to help. After he leaves, there is still half the video remaining - high speed or normal.

Then, the plants arrive.

Very nearly every movement has purpose just as every square inch of garden space does. Can we even imagine how physically fit she is ??!

Steve

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I have yet to be particularly successful growing cabbages — I am slowly learning that insect mesh tunnel is probably more essential than previously believed, and there are good ways and inadequate ways to build a tunnel, and to pin down the edges of the cover.

In my area, it’s also impossible to expect cabbage to overwinter because it easily freezes down to below 20°F, but I was nevertheless intrigued and inspired by this video. They garden in Kagawa Prefecture which is on north (Inland Sea side) of Shikoku Island in Japan.

Note the dates indicated at top left corner — Japanese dates are easy to figure out — today is 9月23日 (9th Month 23rd Day) 月=Moon 日=Sun/Day

(Super Easy Endless Cabbage — encouraging cabbage side shoots after main head is harvested)

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I don't understand that type gardening. I know black plastic keeps soil warm and helps to warm the tent when sun is shinning. Why was black plastic covered with white plastic but white plastic was left in a wad down the middle of the row. After everything was covered with clear plastic it will get warm inside. How do plants get water they whole garden is plastic?

Yesterday I notice Dollar Tree has $1 rolls of clear plastic.

I love to watch oriental peoples gardens on Youtube I learn a lot from the young people that speak English. I learn why my TN Napa cabbage never makes heads temperature can never be warmer than 70°F. That is why I grew excellent 18 lb Napa cabbage heads in AZ it is 65° all winter.

I have tried mini green house in garden with windows & plastic. It is crazy with all the rain we get inside of green house is dry as desert and often nothing grows but weeds and its a full time job to keep weeds out soil must be full of 1000s of seeds.

I saw an oriental lady dig up her whole garden, hand sift all the soil to remove things she do not want then bake the soil on a wood fire to kill bug eggs & kill weed seeds.

I am not young enough anymore to do much physical garden work. I work 2 or 3 minutes then need to rest for 10 minutes gardening is very slow. I work all day and get 1 hour of work done.

I can't grow cabbage in TN either. Neighbor up the street grows good cabbage he said he never sprays for bugs. My cabbage is eaten up by bugs. I have not seen him in 2 months he is about 1/2 mile from me.

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The soil here is never really cold. Black plastic mulch is usually used for weed control and not for heating the soil. Black plastic absorbs heat so it will warm the soil. I don't understand the purpose of the clear plastic over it. Here clear plastic is used for soil solarization in summer. since the plastic also covers the space between the beds, I suspect it is also for weed and erosion control.

Low tunnels and insect netting does keep a lot of the pesky cabbage butterflies away. The light Remay insect netting is not supposed to block light, but it does heat up under it. I use special insect netting that does not cause the plants to heat up under the netting. The only downside with it is that I don't plant in long rows and the netting is designed for long rows.

I am getting a late start on my fall garden, but at the same time. I just finally roasted the peppers I picked. I still have to harvest the ginger and araimo. Tomatoes are still producing and there are cuttings that needed to be potted up already, so it is not like my garden is empty. I just want to be able to keep doing this and be healthy enough to keep on gardening even if it does take me longer to do things and I have to do things in smaller bites since I get tired so fast. I just can't work six hours a day in the garden anymore.

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I’ve been scrubbing the video back and forth trying to find where you saw black plastic and clear plastic used together … not seeing it.

These folks are using insect netting for which apparently the standard there is with the silver threads woven through — they are supposed to repel aphids and thrips or something — My old tattered (was expensive, has lasted long time) insect tunnels have those — not so shiny any more — was touted as also supposed to be useful to scare birds, etc.

I looked for them on Amazon but didn’t see them or they were extra expensive compared to ones without those threads.

Recently (earlier in Sept) watched another video by a community garden advisor who said put down black plastic mulch if harvesting in cold weather — like December or just after New Years, but White or Silver mulch is still good for fall harvest especially where temps are still hot and when planting cool temp growing crops like lettuce, spinach, cilantro, etc.

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I bought seed for a new-to-me cabbage this year - Tiara. It's a 1 - 2 pound cabbage so, a very little guy. This was the only variety in the 2021 garden. DW doesn't care much for keeping cabbage.

What was especially surprising this year was with the all-time record HOT temperatures at the end of June, I really didn't know how the brassicas might deal with that. For the most part, they did fine. The broccoli seemed to lose its resistance to the flea beetles or, at least, it was attacked in a major way. Stalling, they missed their early development of heads. I put down some fertilizer and hilled around the plants and they came back strongly with a late crop!

The Tiara cabbage didn't seem to miss a beat. They produced their little 2 pounders and immediately grew fresh leaves from the cut stems (like in the video). Back they came! We can say they had smaller-than-volleyball size heads first. The next ones were more the size of softballs but there were 2 or 3. OR, there were 3 or 4 and they were the size of baseballs. Some of the plants cut later are still producing. Okay, that's tiny but they are cabbage, taste just fine, and with a very long season of production.

Steve

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Ooh a real life endorsement for the “endless” or maybe “perpetual” cabbage! :D. Will look for Tiara. Good for me especially if smaller headed since I need the more compact varieties to FIT under tunnels.

In the video, they said don’t rush to thin the multiple shoots too soon, and wait until they start to head up — some will NOT head up and once they are obvious, those should be removed/culled to allow others to grow bigger.

@imafan — I chuckled about not planting in long rows. I have been using the ‘maximize the edge’ principle of curvy and mandala gardens for a long time, so it’s been a wrenching realization that straight geometrically regular-shaped beds are best when using/building protective covers….

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Gary350
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digitS' wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:32 pm
I bought seed for a new-to-me cabbage this year - Tiara. It's a 1 - 2 pound cabbage so, a very little guy. This was the only variety in the 2021 garden. DW doesn't care much for keeping cabbage.

What was especially surprising this year was with the all-time record HOT temperatures at the end of June, I really didn't know how the brassicas might deal with that. For the most part, they did fine. The broccoli seemed to lose its resistance to the flea beetles or, at least, it was attacked in a major way. Stalling, they missed their early development of heads. I put down some fertilizer and hilled around the plants and they came back strongly with a late crop!

The Tiara cabbage didn't seem to miss a beat. They produced their little 2 pounders and immediately grew fresh leaves from the cut stems (like in the video). Back they came! We can say they had smaller-than-volleyball size heads first. The next ones were more the size of softballs but there were 2 or 3. OR, there were 3 or 4 and they were the size of baseballs. Some of the plants cut later are still producing. Okay, that's tiny but they are cabbage, taste just fine, and with a very long season of production.

Steve
What are your all-time record[/I] HOT temperatures.? We have 98° to 100° temperatures in TN. What date did you plant Tiara cabbage? Did you plant seeds or plants? How many day corp it this? Does Tiara cabbage have bug problems?

If I can grow good cabbage in TN I will. In the past bugs eat the cabbage and nothing seems to stop the bugs. I don't know anything about plant nets no one sells them around here.

The man up the road from me had 20 heads of cabbage late June all were 7" diameter, no nets, no bug spray. His cabbage are not round they are flat on top. He said, bugs are never a problem. I need to talk to him again. My cabbage get eaten up like a Swiss cheese then become gray color rotten mush. I gave up 20 yrs ago.

When I moved to TN 43 years ago I knew a man that grew 20 BIG cabbage every spring, no bugs, no nets, he harvest them all in May. He died before I had an interest in cabbage.
Last edited by Gary350 on Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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I have to look into that Tiara cabbage, too! Sounds great for these areas that get hot early! I saw those temps out in the NW this summer, and it's a wonder that any brassicas survived!

I don't think a single one of my new tomatoes, large or small, turned out to be keepers. A few that may have been early on, but just didn't keep up, once the heat and humidity started up. And a couple that started out good, turned out super small later on.

Peppers I got 3 keepers - the Paper Lantern, a hot, but not overly hot (maybe 150k-200k), and incredible production, starting to ripen in later July. The superhot I grew this year - Death Spiral - is the largest growing, and most productive one I've grown, with over 50 ripe at a time on my plant, and my friend's huge plant as tall as I am - 6'6" - and loaded with peppers, as well! And the Numex Big Chili was my most productive mild variety, and disease resistant, compared to Giuzeppi Numex, and the Ancho Ranchero. And I got some new Chocolate hab seeds this year, but they weren't as good as the old ones - these are determinate, instead of indeterminate, and definitely milder, maybe up 300k, at most. The old are at least 400k, and constantly flowering, once they start, and loaded with peppers, until frost. I will have to sprout some of the old ones, and make sure to bag some blossoms, to save new seeds next season.

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Gary, it was 113°f at the nearest US Weather Station - about 5 miles away. Seeds went into the soil mix in the greenhouse in early March with transplants set out in May. Usually, we have overcast weather until late June with a few sunny, warm days. By early July, it's sunny and warm. Some summers (maybe 1/3rd) we don't have 100°. Keep in mind that these are low-humidity summers.

Tiara is supposed to be a 63-day cabbage. There were some aphids. For some reason, I didn't come across a single cabbage worm. It could have been because the yellow jackets were out in force. The broccoli variety was supposed be a 62-day crop. No way in 2021! Flea beetles were an early problem there and in the beans and some other things, not really the cabbage. Aphids have been a terrible cabbage problem some years. I'm willing to spray but it's difficult to hit the aphids under leaves with an organic, contact spray.

Steve

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It was the 2021/02/19 video around 41:03 she had laid the black plastic down and planted through it but the row next to it had clear plastic. She also used row covers without hoops but it was hard to tell if it was fabric or plastic.4

Applestar: M backyard is 54 feet wide and 15-30 ft deep. My main bed is 8x18 (free form Oval-ish). There is no room for long rows of anything. My pots are sort of lined up in rows, but not really. I have to move them apart if the leaves start to touch and there is actually no path between them. Luckily, I don't have to walk between the pots too much and the hose can reach them from the end of the row.

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Ah ha! That February video was a bit unique— she is planting corn almost a MONTH before normally done. She explains that this is how she beats the corn ear worms — by reaching harvest stage before the moths start to fly and lay eggs. But it requires planting started in pots indoors (because the ground is too cool to germinate) in black mulch-covered row for extra soil temperature. She was covering the plants with non-woven garden fleece to protect them from the cold — notice how she DOESN’T pin the fabric down and takes care she doesn’t stab the edges with the hoop support. then she bunched it up along the center of the row where the corn is not planted.. All the looseness is to allow the seedlings to grow and push the fabric up. She then covered the row with low hoop supported vented clear plastic because it gets too hot during the day without the ventilation. She said she will keep a Max/Min thermometer in the tunnel to monitor the temperatures closely.

She admitted this episode might be confusing and urged viewers to ask question in the comments so she could address them when she planted the next raised wide row of corn.

There are two wide 2x rows of onions next to the row she was working on, covered with black plastic mulch, and the glare makes it hard to tell but the PATH between the two raised wide rows is covered with weed block landscaping cloth.

She mentioned previously that because she pins the landscaping cloth over the long edge of the plastic mulch, she doesn’t have to worry about burying the mulch edges in the normal way.

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Using the u-pins, it’s possible to lay the row mulches over unique shapes. I’m also eyeing the mosquito netting designed to drape over patio umbrellas, and camp tent footprint for broad protection, the STARDOME design as support for circular beds, parachutes as covers, etc. I think you will see me devising new ways as the experiment continues.

This year, I wanted to “pin down” the basics (pun intended :wink: ) of conventional plastic mulch and row cover usage and techniques over row tunnels.

One of the real eye-openers—light bulb moment—was how controlling the covers from puffing and flapping around in the gusty winds MUST be accomplished by strapping them down — NOT by securing the edges or trying to secure to middle hoops (those all fly off when the wind picks up)

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apple I know where you're coming from, as far as securing those plastic and fabric row mulches down! Besides a couple thousand of those u-pins (just guessing for a total), I have a huge number of old bricks, and other large, broken up stones, pipes, and some of my favorites - those old cast iron window weights, I got when they replaced all the windows in my old house!

I usually use 4 of those u-pins on each of my SIPs, to secure the covers, one in the center of each side. And I've found that the non-galvanized ones stay in the ground better - they rust, and may not last as long (still several years), but the fact that they rust makes them stick in the ground, while the ganvanized ones slide out easier. And the other thing I use these fore, which is why I have so many, are the lines for the drip irrigation.

imafan26
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Thanks for the explanation. I can use insect netting, but not row covers. Even the light row covers still hold too much heat in. I use covers mainly for insect or bird protection, or shade. Insect netting has larger holes and lets air through so they don't do much flapping except in high winds. If the winds are high enough to do that, it will shake the shade cloth supports apart since they are not glued together. However, strapping them down with some extra rope is not a bad idea.

I used to use weed block in the garden, but the plastic was hard to get out at the end of the year or two. It was used for weeds since my soil is never that cold. If it is, I just have to wait for the right time to plant. The newspaper mulch does the same thing for about 3 months and that gives the plants a head start on the weeds, and it decomposes in place so I don't have shreds to deal with.

I am toying with making a round support since zucchini is nearly impossible to protect from fruit flies and they attract so many that even the cucumbers get attacked as well. Camping mosquito netting is a good idea. I would have to get a different container since the netting I looked at is intended to go over a cot not a bed. I don't actually have to protect the entire garden, the birds are the biggest pests but they have managed to get under bird netting, although now that I secure the fruit bags with ties, they have stopped trying to open them and leave the wrapped fruit alone. The birds still get into my shade bench and nothing stops snails and slugs.

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digitS'
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Here is the Tiara cabbage I was referring to on September 23rd. These came out of the garden yesterday.
031081F6-9421-4BA6-9C93-B6A49F2D6DD9.jpeg
Little guys but nearly as big as the first heads back in early summer. These are produced 3 and 4 on each plant.

Steve

imafan26
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How nice. I have given up on head cabbage. I have better luck with Asian cabbages.
I have tried to grow cabbages a few times but they do take up a lot of space and my cabbage never got more than 4 inches across and the center was devoured by something, so I did not even get to harvest it.

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digitS'
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These plants are very small compared to others that I have grown. They could have been more crowded than they were allowed this first year.

We can see some of the difference between climates, Imafan. Bok Choy and some other Asian greens do okay in my garden. Chinese cabbage, no. The only way that I have been successful is growing them in the hoop house and leaving it up until July, or nearly.

It isn’t daytime warmth that is needed by that time. I strongly suspect that they struggle with the chilly overnight temperatures.

Steve

imafan26
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It could be what you said. The Asian cabbages have a longer growing season for me than lettuce which will bolt faster once the temps hit 80 degrees. The won bok does need cooler, but the tatsoi, kai choy, semposai, and komatsuna can last until July especially in a cool year like this one. It was cooler for me because of La Nina. It only hit 90 degrees for a couple of weeks and the night temperatures at my elevation stayed in the 60-75 degree range. The kai choy I grow was developed in Hawaii to resist white rust so it is a better cultivar for my climate. Michili bok choy is the only one I have been successful with, but if it is too hot, it will not form a tight head. Unlike you, I never have to worry about it being too cold at night, unless I am trying to germinate some pepper or eggplant seeds. I have learned an expensive lesson on that and now know to wait until it is at least 80 degrees for those.

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applestar
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Is this taro root? She said in grocery stores, they are much longer — maybe twice as long, and this was first time she grew them. She said that, earlier in the season, she was asked if she wasn’t going to remove the children surrounding the main corm, and she didn’t know why she should, but she understands now that the main corm might have grown smoother and taller if the surrounding shoots were culled.


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Gary350
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applestar wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:05 pm
Is this taro root? She said in grocery stores, they are much longer — maybe twice as long, and this was first time she grew them. She said that, earlier in the season, she was asked if she wasn’t going to remove the children surrounding the main corm, and she didn’t know why she should, but she understands now that the main corm might have grown smoother and taller if the surrounding shoots were culled.

It is interesting we only know what we learn from our, parents, grand parents, people we know, books an now the internet. The world use to seem big but now it seems very small only 8000 miles diameter. How is that root eaten? What does it taste like? How is it cooked? What growing conditions does the plant like? I sometimes wish I had volcanic soil like Idaho but if I knew more about that soil I might be glad I don't have it. When I look at Ebay seeds for sale from all over the world there are 1000s of different seeds I have never seen and know nothing about. If I grew vegetables I never seen before I would not know how to cook it or how to eat it, I need to taste it first to know if I want to eat it. There are 2 ladies from Korea, 1 from Vietnam, 1 from China, at Farmers Market I love to talk to they have interesting vegetables I have never seen & don't know how to grow, cook or eat, they grow what sells good at the market. There use to be a Korean Grocery store & Oriental grocery store in town they both are closed now. I have trouble growing certain crops native to USA like cabbage, my neighbor makes it look easy with no net & no spray, I can't keep bugs from eating it up.

imafan26
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She mentioned things usually harvested at the end of the year like gobo and bamboo shoots. I think she also said dasheen. Dasheen is araimo, it is a kind of taro. I do grow dasheen in pots, the tops never get that big for me. It is harvested when the leaves start to yellow at about 7 months old. It is possible to get 2 harvests a year.

It is a kalo (taro). In the video I could see that the leaf attaches to the stem below the "V" in the leaf stem. If it was an ape, the leaves would be pointed upward and the attachment would be at the "V". Ape was famine food. It has more oxalic acid than kalo. The taro looks like araimo. Usually the mother corm is the largest and is surrounded by the keiki. She harvested before the leaves turned yellow. If she was late harvesting the mother corm would have made more keiki and would have started to rot. She is right though, that if you leave too many keiki it will decrease the size. Usually after harvest The hulis (the stem and about 1/2 of the top of the taro is replanted. If it is left in the ground you will get a lot of small potatoes (ko imo).

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applestar
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Thanks @imafan. As point to related interest here’s another video of the old lady harvesting a 2nd kind — she calls this one Akame (red eye) Imo and looking it up, it is also called Celebes — native to Celebes Island (now called Sulawesi Island) to the south of Philippines.

In this video, Hiro-chan is lamenting that she was going to stop growing these because she really liked and was impressed by the Takenoko Imo variety that was in the previous video (It’s called Taknoko — Bamboo Shoot — because it sort of looks like freshly dug up bamboo shoot), but thes performed so well — “nice fat and smooth” that she is tempted to grow them again next year, and she can’t decide what to do….. LOL

…huh… my iphone is acting up, not letting me cut and paste the video link… will edit and add later :|

imafan26
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Usually you just plant the huli ( the tops). Taro usually has larger leaves, hers were taller. It may be variety related. Taro likes a long warm growing season and takes about 7-9 months to mature. The leaves start to yellow when it matures and is ready to harvest. If you wait too long, there will be more keiki surrounding the mother corm and if you wait way too long, the mother corm will be spent and start to rot and you will be left only with keiki that you could eat small or replant. It is usually a waste to plant corms when all you need is the top. Taro comes in dry land and wet land types. Wet land taro is grown in loi (fresh water ponds). While dry land taro does not need to be grown submerged in water. It likes a lot of water. Dry land taro usually gets bigger if grown in water.

These videos are about taro and growing taro. Both wetland and dryland. You may have a hard time understanding pidgin and the Hawaiian terms. Kalo = taro, Malama the aina = love the land, kai = ocean, piko = belly button, in kalo it is how the kalo is attached to the stem. There are probably over 200 varieties of taro. I cannot tell them apart. Some are all purpose like bun long which you can eat the corm, stems, and leaves. Araimo (dasheen), is what I grow for nishime. Others that grow very tall with pink stems ( I don't know the name of that one. It is grown for the stems), Luau type taro are grown primarily for the leaves ( If you harvest for leaves, it will not make a large corm.) Some taro are specific for making poi ( ele ele, lehua), or others are called table taro that are moister and sweeter, less starchy (red moi is my favorite.) Technically you can eat leaves of any taro or ape, but some varieties are better since they will have less oxalic acid. Taro needs to be cooked to death and then some to make sure you cook out the oxalic acid. Taro is grown all over the Pacific in the tropics. Hawaii even produce enough taro to make poi because of apple snails and disease, so it imports some taro from Samoa. During taro shortages, people will mix ulu ( breadfuit) puree with the poi to extend it. I just bought a big bag of poi two days ago. It was $16.99 for a 5 lb bag. I will be eating poi for a few days now. It will become sourer every day. Traditional Hawaiians don't like to eat poi fresh, they like their sour poi up to a month old. That is too sour for me. I can only eat fresh poi without sugar. After that, I add sugar. I like to eat poi with something salty like kalua pork. Salt makes the poi taste sweeter. I don't like two finger poi, so I add more water and heat it in the microwave because I like poi warm and soupy. Really, not a traditional way to eat it.

Taro needs a lot of water, phosphorus and potassium. If it gets too much nitrogen it will make leaves at the expense of the corm. That is what happened when I grew a Samoan taro. The leaves were huge and there was hardly any root. However, I was told I could eat the leaves too.

Bun Long was easier to grow in a container. It is smaller and all parts can be eaten. I had a hard time killing the Samoan taro in the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE7K3NXFU1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj7orqhfhWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_0UMgA1BGQ&t=435s
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/site/tarod ... aspx?id=81

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Gary350
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I want a right hand long arm grass sickle with a full length 5 foot long handle same length as a shovel handle or garden hoe handle. Old ones are impossible to find but lots of short hand grass sickles for sale. These days new ones are called, grass hooks with a 3 ft handle & tiny blade. Sling blades were only good for short plants, longer plants get tangled in the U shape blade holder. Swing blade worked but the corrugate blade makes it impossible to sharpen. I don't want a large wheat or hay sickle.
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Vanisle_BC
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@gary
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I have one of these; not cheap but it'll last forever. I found the lower handle a bit short but I force- fitted a length of 1" copper tubing over it. I call this a scythe - maybe not what you want.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=lee+valley+scyrhe&ia=web

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applestar
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I have that scythe from Lee Valley, too. It’s fun to use — always a bit of a thrill handling the dangerous-looking very sharp blade, especially when slowly sharpening its full length…. :>


— I also have this tool for when I don’t need finesse to whack weeds Basic loose one handed golf swings are all that’s needed :twisted:

Truper Weed 26 in. Steel Tempered Weed Cutter - Ace Hardware
https://www.acehardware.com/departments ... ls/7300064


Image


— but maybe THIS the sort of tool you are looking for? It doesn’t have the hooked blade in your photo and handle length is shorter even at fully extended….

Weeding Sickle Long Handle Adjustable (28-3/4" to 45") Japanese Stainless Steel, Made in Japan, Telescoping Weeding Tool for Garden, Stand Up Weeder Sickle Lightweight Hand Tool (Pull & Swing Blade)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZLQ3QMV/re ... 6VAQ8WFGT3

Image

(…ugh! “Tech Gremlins” are sabotaging me today — can’t get the image to display— sorry)



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