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Gary350
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How & When do YOU plant Corn & Beans?

WHY can't I plant corn & beans like farmers do in 200 acre fields and have all the seeds germinate?

I have noticed if corn & bean seeds are planted 1.5" deep they are slightly above the wet area they are pretty much dependent on rain to germinate but some seeds will germinate like this.

If seeds are planted 2" deep they are in a soil wet area an germinate quicker and higher percentage.

If seeds are planted day before rain soil dries out several days later & becomes hard, plants struggle for a week or more trying to escape to the surface.

If seeds are planted between rains they seem to be a long time germinating & germination is spotty.

If day temperature is 85 to 90 degrees soil is very warm from the sun but rain cools soil to about 70 degrees then we have 2 or 3 days of 60 to 70 degree cloudy over cast weather beans don't germinates in 60 degree wet soil.

I always seem to have spotty germination for corn & beans sometimes 30% to 60% then I plant again to fill in the gaps. This is actually not a bad thing it means I don't need to harvest the whole corn & bean crop on the same day I get 2 harvests about 8 to 10 days apart.

If I wait later in the month of May to plant corn & beans I run the risk of our rain suddenly stopping and no more rain for 3 weeks then seeds do not germinate in hot sun & dry soil with no water.

Best success so far is wait until weather is 90 degrees hot and sunny all day every day 75 at night with no rain in the forecast then water each seed row with the garden hose several times a day to keep the seeds wet & soft. Soil heats up very warm in hot sun germination is very fast 100% germination in a few days. Once plants are growing I never need to water them again. Farmers don't water fields so why should I water my garden.

Farmer up the road always has 100% germination I don't understand why I can't get 100% too on the first try? Is there a big difference between field corn & sweet corn. Is there a big difference between soy beans & green beans?

How do you decide when & how to plant your corn & beans to get "Good Seed Germination?"
Last edited by Gary350 on Thu May 09, 2019 9:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

imafan26
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I rarely plant anything very deep, but besides all the compost and peat moss I have added, the base soil is a red dirt (oxisoil). It is heavy.

I do soil tests every three years or so. I only need nitrogen and nothing else. My soil pH was 6.0 in 2018 so I did add lime to it last year. Otherwise I only add 4 inches of compost as a preplant and I wait until the seedlings have true leaves before I give it the sulfate of ammonia. (1/2 cup per 100 square feet). A second dose of ammonia will be given when the plants are about 6 weeks old for plants that take 60 days or more to mature. Too much nitrogen in the soil at the beginning can cause germination to fail. Corn is a heavy nitrogen feeder so it does best with 2 installments of nitrogen.

Beans on the other hand, don't need much nitrogen and it can scavenge so I usually have beans be a rotation crop for the corn.

Beans are more productive, but I don't like it as much as I like corn, so I don't grow a lot of beans. I will try to grow 3 successions of corn in a year. I can grow the temperate corn only up to July. If I try a third crop, I need to grow tropical corn since it does not require a 14-16 hour day. Tropical corn can set with 11or12 hours of sun. My longest day is just around 13.5 hours and the shortest is just shy of 11 hours.

I plant corn and beans about 1/2 inch deep. (Rule of thumb is 1.5-2.0 times the diameter of the seed.) A push till the first knuckle of my finger usually works for large seed. Small seed is scattered and not covered at all. (Although, this can be a gamble since the birds will eat the seeds). Corn needs to be planted in blocks at least 4 rows. I plant my corn about 8 inches apart. if planted too close the tassels don't pollinate the ears well. If the plants are in a straight row and not in a block, pollination is very poor unless you bag the tassels and hand pollinate the ears. If I have less than 30 plants, the ears are few and not full, unless I hand pollinate. I get a decent harvest with 47 plants (I will get about 67 ears). I don't bother to remove the tillers. Tropical corn UH no. 9 and UH no. 10 were especially bred for Hawaii and that is why it can be grown almost year round. It and a few temperate varieties like silver queen are also resistant to maize mosaic virus and some of the fungal diseases. You may look to your local extension office for what varieties grow best in your area.


Planting dates depends on your zone. You can look up your planting dates in the farmer's almanac. My planting date for all warm season crops is March 1. I prefer to use temperature rather than planting dates. It is more reliable. Tomatoes can grow in temperatures as low as 50 degrees, but they don't do well in the rainy season. Warm season crops grow faster with longer days. For truly warm loving crops like pepper need to be at least a consistent 68 degrees. For the super hot varieties like ghost, they like to be closer to 80.

I also have better luck paying attention to the moon phases as well. I have the best luck planting the second and third weeks of the month. Things grow slowly planted in the first week and sometimes nothing comes up at all planted the fourth week.

https://www.gardeningbythemoon.com/moon ... gardening/
https://www.almanac.com/gardening/plant ... AZ/Phoenix

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Gary350
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imafan26 wrote:I rarely plant anything very deep, but besides all the compost and peat moss I have added, the base soil is a red dirt (oxisoil). It is heavy.

I plant corn and beans about 1/2 inch deep. (Rule of thumb is 1.5-2.0 times the diameter of the seed.) A push till the first knuckle of my finger usually works for large seed. Small seed is scattered and not covered at all. (Although, this can be a gamble since the birds will eat the seeds). Corn needs to be planted in blocks at least 4 rows. I plant my corn about 8 inches apart. if planted too close the tassels don't pollinate the ears well. If the plants are in a straight row and not in a block, pollination is very poor unless you bag the tassels and hand pollinate the ears. If I have less than 30 plants, the ears are few and not full, unless I hand pollinate. I get a decent harvest with 47 plants (I will get about 67 ears). I don't bother to remove the tillers. Tropical corn UH no. 9 and UH no. 10 were especially bred for Hawaii and that is why it can be grown almost year round. It and a few temperate varieties like silver queen are also resistant to maize mosaic virus and some of the fungal diseases. You may look to your local extension office for what varieties grow best in your area.

Planting dates depends on your zone. You can look up your planting dates in the farmer's almanac. My planting date for all warm season crops is March 1. I prefer to use temperature rather than planting dates. It is more reliable. Tomatoes can grow in temperatures as low as 50 degrees, but they don't do well in the rainy season. Warm season crops grow faster with longer days. For truly warm loving crops like pepper need to be at least a consistent 68 degrees. For the super hot varieties like ghost, they like to be closer to 80.

I also have better luck paying attention to the moon phases as well. I have the best luck planting the second and third weeks of the month. Things grow slowly planted in the first week and sometimes nothing comes up at all planted the fourth week.

https://www.gardeningbythemoon.com/moon ... gardening/
https://www.almanac.com/gardening/plant ... AZ/Phoenix
My parents & grandparents planted by moon phases I never did learn how to do that. NOVA TV Show did scientific research on planting by moon phases they proved it works but all I remember is how light of the full moon can stunt plant growth if seeds are planted at the wrong time. I don't remember Nova saying anything about sun & moon gravity increase soil moisture to give better seed germination. I have no clue what phase moon is now I have only seen the moon about 5 times since Nov we had 6 months of rain & overcast sky, I will check moon phase today. When we have 90/70 day/night temperature weather seems perfect to plant seeds but when it rains we starting having 70/50 weather over cast for several days that is not good for seed germination. I don't seem to be able to recognize perfect Mother Nature conditions to plant corn & beans at the correct time to get good 100% seed germination. Corn should be planted first then beans about 3 weeks later. Rain in the forecast today then another week of 70/50 degree weather. Our TN spring is very short once 70/50 deg weather is gone rain stops it will be 95 to 98 every day until mid Sept.

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applestar
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IF you don’t mind having to handle the seeds carefully, and I think this part may become a problem when sowing a lot of seeds, then you might try soaking and pre-germinating them first.

Points to keep in mind —
(1) large seeds like corn and beans — rinse and soak for 8-12 hrs, then they need frequent rinsing 3 times a day minimum in summer heat until they germinate, but it only takes 2-3 days at most
(2) you could sow the soaked seeds without waiting for them to germinate, but then it may take longer depending on soil temperature
(3) once soaked, the seeds are soft and can be easily squished... pre-germinated seeds must be handled delicately not to break off the tiny brittle root.
— Soaked bean seeds in particular tend to split apart with little pressure, losing one of the seedleaves — they will still grow, but the seedleaves supply energy so one-leaf seedlings grow slower than 2-seedleaf seedlings.
(4) once soaked (and pre-germinated) they cannot be allowed to dry out, but even barely moist soil is sufficient to keep them alive
(5) once the seeds have pre-germinated, you HAVE to sow them before the roots get too long, and before the seedleaves start to sprout, no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs

— I prefer to sow/plant them in rain-soaked garden, between rains, or sufficiently moistened garden beds when expecting rain within the next 24 hours. If forecast fails and it doesn’t rain, you will have to water the garden.

PaulF
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Whoa! Way too much overthinking for me. Corn goes in when the farmers are planting corn and beans get planted when my wife gets around to it. When it is warm enough to put tomatoes in, she plants beans. Or maybe waits a while and plants beans and cucumbers at the same time. But then we plant just enough to supply ourselves with a little bit so if we have a crop failure we go to the farmer's market or the roadside pickup selling stuff.

You guys have a lot of very good information but it makes my head hurt. Tongue poking the side of my cheek.

Taiji
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I have done 2 things differently in recent years.

1. Instead of just planting one corn seed every 8 inches or a foot away, I plant 2 or 3 seeds near each other then 2 or 3 more the 8 inches or a foot away. If more than one germinates, I simply snip off the extra(s). I started doing this mostly because I use seed sometimes that may be 2 or 3 yrs. old and may not germinate as well as new seed.

2. Also, as someone recommended, (applestar I think :)) I will also plant some extra corn seed in flats or grow cells where they germinate in a better controlled environment. I usually start these about the same time as the ones outside. Then, if I need to fill in gaps outside, I just transplant these. It's better than planting new seed from scratch and having to wait wondering if they'll germinate.

Nyan
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As I don't have a lot of time in the spring to get a bed ready for the corn, I plant where I remove the compost from the compost pile.

I try to make the pile cover a rectangle about 10 X 25 feet if (I can get enough plant matter) and I leave enough to make about 3 inches of mostly finished rough compost on the ground, mixed with whatever chicken poo I have.

I then push the seeds into the ground about an inch and a half at about 9 inches apart, and cover the bed with another couple of inches of old leaves/grass trimmings from the mower bag once they come up.

The composted material keeps the seeds good and moist, and the clippings on top dry out enough to discourage the weeds. If weeds do come up, it is a trivial matter to just give the trimmings a brush back and forth to uproot them.

I usually have to replant 5 - 10 seeds on average, which I can live with.

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Gary350
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Several people have said they have trouble with corn seed germination, they have to fill in spots where no corn grew or plant 3 seeds in each location to make sure there is a plant growing every 6 or 8 inches apart. It has not occurred to me until now that new seeds may be bad. So far I have 47 corn plants our of 400 corn seeds planted that is about 11% seed germination. I dug into the soil yesterday and found pink color corn seeds setting there doing nothing. I also notice bean seeds that I bought from the same place Farmers Co-op are not doing nothing too. But beans seeds I saved from my own garden last summer have all germinated and all came up. Last year I saved my own corn seeds but a mouse ate them during the winter in the garage there are about 500 corn seeds per ear. This year I will save my own corn seeds again and make sure they don't get eaten.

Yesterday I planted 45 corn seeds in pots just to see how many seeds actually germinate.

2 weeks ago we had a week of 89 & 90 degree day temperatures with 70 degree night temperatures. Now we are having rain every day again, over cast every day again, 70 during the day & 50s & 40s at night. Forecast for the following week, rain, over cast, 70 during the day, 50s at night. Until we start getting warm weather again I am not planting more seeds.

After living in TN 42 years I expect rain to suddenly stop, temperatures will be in the 90s, no rain for several weeks, soil will dry up in the hot sun, seeds will not grow unless I water them 6 times every day to get them started. I need to stop depending on mother nature when I plant corn & beans, some years I get it right, this year I didn't. I should have planted corn very first day we had 89 degree weather 3 weeks ago it was near 90 for a week. Weather forecast for next week in the 40s Wednesday, WTF. I might not get to plant corn again until June. I remember about 8 years ago I did not get to plant corn until 3rd week of June rain suddenly stopped it was near 100 degrees until Sept.
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Taiji
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I was thinking too, you could maybe ask the local farmer why he gets 100% germ. Chances are he or she has a home garden as well. Or, ask other gardeners in the area what they do. Nothing better than knowing what the local gardeners do on a regular basis. :) If you save your corn seed and plant it, I don't know if it will come true unless it's a non hybrid right?

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Gary350
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Taiji wrote:I was thinking too, you could maybe ask the local farmer why he gets 100% germ. Chances are he or she has a home garden as well. Or, ask other gardeners in the area what they do. Nothing better than knowing what the local gardeners do on a regular basis. :) If you save your corn seed and plant it, I don't know if it will come true unless it's a non hybrid right?
I will ask the corn growers at farmers market how & when they plant corn. First day of farmers market was yesterday but not many people there no one harvesting anything yet but greens.

When I worked for Dekalb Corn 50 years ago we grew hybrid corn. If you plant yellow & white corn together the corn you get this year will be yellow kernals of corn on the yellow corn plant & white kernals of corn on the white corn plant but saved seeds will make white/yellow kernels like Peaches & Cream corn next year. If you save seeds from Peaches & Cream corn seeds it will convert back to the mother plant if mother plant was yellow corn then it will make yellow seeds.

I saved my own Silver Queen corn seeds & planted them many times year after year they were always white corn seeds and tasted exactly like Silver Queen year after year. Silver Queen is a 90 day crop I have changed to a 65 day crop it works better in TN climate corn does not do well when temperature is above 85 degrees. If I don't get a good crop of corn planted in the next few days it will mature in 98 degrees July blistering hot sun with no rain which is not good for corn.

When I lived in Illinois you could almost set your clock by the afternoon thunder storm every day about 4 pm to 4:30 pm it would come a flash flood thunder storm for 15 minutes exactly what corn needed water every day. High temperature up in that part of the world was 85 degrees in summer perfect for corn. TN is too hot for corn plus we only get summer rain about every 3 weeks.

Online does not say much about growing sweet corn but good information on field corn. Corn only needs nitrogen fertilizer 2 times, once when corn is 2 ft tall, again when corn silks appear on the ears. Plenty of rain when kernels are growing. I will do this to my sweet corn this year to see how it works.

I just received a tip, when to plant corn. Plant corn when oak tree leaves are the size of squirrel ears, about the last part of April. LOL

Nyan
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I live in northern Alabama (A bit south of you) and I try to get the corn planted by the 10th of April. But not this year with all the cold snaps we had!
It's still up about 15-18 inches tall in the little 15 X 8ft patch, so I'm happy. Only had to replant 3 seeds too, which is great.

I agree with the earlier the better on corn planting, both for heat issues and corn earworm pressure, which causes a lot of problems in our area if you wait and plant very late in May.

Heh, I also lived in Illinois about 50 years ago and worked for both Pioneer and Burrus seed, detassling corn and cutting weeds out of seed bean fields. That area was somewhat south of the Dekalb home ground so a little hotter in the summer, but still a great corn area.

Most of the bags of seed we bought was listed at 92% germination, so close to 100%, but I wonder if some of problem might be from not packing the soil firmly enough in the row as I remember how firmly our old four row planter pack wheel pushed down the soil.

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Gary350
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Nyan wrote:I live in northern Alabama (A bit south of you) and I try to get the corn planted by the 10th of April. But not this year with all the cold snaps we had!
It's still up about 15-18 inches tall in the little 15 X 8ft patch, so I'm happy. Only had to replant 3 seeds too, which is great.

I agree with the earlier the better on corn planting, both for heat issues and corn earworm pressure, which causes a lot of problems in our area if you wait and plant very late in May.

Heh, I also lived in Illinois about 50 years ago and worked for both Pioneer and Burrus seed, detassling corn and cutting weeds out of seed bean fields. That area was somewhat south of the Dekalb home ground so a little hotter in the summer, but still a great corn area.

Most of the bags of seed we bought was listed at 92% germination, so close to 100%, but I wonder if some of problem might be from not packing the soil firmly enough in the row as I remember how firmly our old four row planter pack wheel pushed down the soil.
My grandfathers corn planter had a steel blade that sliced through the soil like a knife & seed planter dropped seeds in 1 1/2" deep 6" apart then the bevel shape steel wheel ran over it compacted the soil very tight. My grandfather use to listen to weather reports & study the weather he use to say, we need 7 days of warm weather with full sun after seeds are planted to have a good crop. When weather report said, rain tomorrow & temperature he wanted & full sun for a week he planted corn. I would hate to be a full time farmer like he was and have my yearly income depend on how well crops do every year. Weather in TN is less stable than weather in IL it is harder to find the correct time to plant when weather can suddenly change. The mistake I made this year was not planting corn 3 weeks ago when we had 5 days of 89 degrees and full sun weather. I hesitated because weather man said 5 days of sun, not 7 days of sun. My next problem was we had 1 day of 90 degree weather then weather report was, rain tomorrow and 89 degrees & sunny for a week. I planted corn and the next day it rained weather man was wrong temperature dropped to 70 during the day 50 at night for a week. I just don't know how farmers get it right maybe field corn is easier to grow than sweet corn. Weather this year is a roller coaster ride not dependable at all for more than 3 days. Every since I planted corn it has rained every day, no sun, over cast every day for 2 weeks now weather man claims 50 degree all next week and 46 Mon at night. Weather man is never right and he is better at it than me. LOL.
Last edited by Gary350 on Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nyan
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We used the same type planter (4 row) for corn and beans, until nearly everyone in our area went to no-till in the early 80's. Pain in the butt, and the area where the plates dropped the seed was always getting clogged with dirt clods, so the seed would build up and then drop about 50 seeds in the space of a couple of feet...

We always say that if the weatherman says 40% chance of rain, you will have sun all day, and if he says 30% get ready to drown...

The field corn is tougher than sweet, maybe the kernel size or the targeted breeding that sweet corn doesn't get as much of.

Maybe the residual heat from the compost pile is what is helping me out, or the extreme blackness of the compost (heating from the sun) along with the friability of compost allowing the rain to flow away more quickly. More likely just that little bit warmer weather we've had has made the difference.
sorry it's so dark - pic taken last night.
sorry it's so dark - pic taken last night.

Nyan
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Well, either the hills are really steep in Alabama, or I had the phone turned the wrong way...

( I swear the pic showed up in proper orientation when I downloaded it to the computer!)

imafan26
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Corn does not have 100% germination rate. So planting a couple of seeds in a hole is insurance. Most of the time when I had problems it was because of seed robbers. Namely birds and mice digging up the seeds and eating them. I planted seeds once when I did not have a cat, and replanted the seeds 3 times before I actually saw the mouse digging up each seed I planted and eating it. I had a hard time catching it too. I never used a trap before and I got a rat trap and it did not even spring! I had to get a smaller trap and bait it with corn t catch the mouse.

Corn seeds do have to be fresh. They don't have a long viability. I either use fresh seed every year, storing seeds in the freezer does extend their life a little. If I use the seeds a year later, I do double up and plant two seeds in a hole. The germination rate drops below 80% the third year, so I usually throw those seeds away, or use it to bait more mouse traps.

I do have more germination problems when I plant at the wrong phase of the moon. Either the seeds take a long time to germinate, or germination is poor.

Temperature is less of an issue than day length. Tropical corn can be planted as late as October, and still yield but as the days grow shorter, so does the corn. When I planted corn in January, The corn germinated fine, but it grew very slowly. It did not start growing more vigorously until March. Tropical corn only needs 11-12 hours of daylight to set. Temperate corn that most of you grow need a 14-16 hour day and you cannot run as many consecutive plantings between the day length and the temperature. There are a few conditions that need to be just right for success
1. Right variety of corn for your area
2. Temperature
3. Day length 11-14 hours for tropical corn and 14-16 hours for temperate corn
4. Planting during the right phases of the moon (at least it works for me)
5. Fresh seeds
6 It does not hurt to plant 2 seeds in a hole or plant a plug tray of extras to fill in the gaps.

Nyan
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Come to think of it I've gotten better germination since moving the corn to the front of the place away from the back area with much more wildlife pressure.
In the back we have lots of field mice, rabbits and possums (that shredded every ear off my corn patch one year!) and just last week I had to run off a Hoover Hog that a dog had chased into the garden.

The front has 4 very fast dogs living around it, including one that caught ten rabbits last year, and brought each one of them through the doggie door to give to Momma! (She was pretty screamy about that...)

BTW, if you have a local Mexican Mercado that sells the whole tortilla corn kernels, grab some and plant it after you pull your taters. I've had that stuff get 16 feet tall by fall, which makes people coming up the street rubber neck all the way past the the place. Not much corn off it, but a heck of a lot of green matter for the compost pile.

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Gary350
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Corn seed test in flower pots that are inside the warm sunny fish aquarium shows 90% corn seed germination. My poor corn germination 2 weeks ago in the garden must have been from sudden weather change 90 degrees in the day then 70 the next day & 50 degrees at night with 2 weeks of cold rain every day. I am very surprised, beans, okra, cucumbers did better than corn. It is also possible squirrels dug corn seeds up we had 12 squirrels but now we have 10 cats & dog ate 2..
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