Cucumbers diminish over years

[BobK]

I have trouble growing cucumbers in the same spot over years.

If I create a new spot for planting, say I turn over some lawn, I get bountiful cucumbers for 1 or 2 years, then the third year the plants just don't grow. In the fall I lightly add lime when turning over the garden, and in the spring I add and turn-in some composted cow manure.

I don't have much space for gardening so rotating around the available space isn't working - I've used almost every where.

Is there something I am doing wrong here, or something different I should be doing? Perhaps some additive?

Thanks!

[pepperhead212]

Maybe get a soil test? Or grow them in sub irrigated planters. I grow mine in those all the time now, as I have never had them produce as well when planted in the ground.

[applestar]

Where are you located? Are you in a relatively hot area?

I believe cucumbers are susceptible to soil-borne diseases like fusarium and pests like nematodes. As far as I know, these are not as serious issues where the ground freezes in the north.

You may need to treat your soil with bio-fungicides and/or beneficial/predatory nematodes, which are typically applied during the cooler months of the year. Or I suppose you can use conventional chemical fumigants, but I don’t know anything about them.

[PaulF]

Cucumbers like loose soil and plenty of food. pH needs to be close to 7.0 and compost well turned in should be good enough. Weeds and grass will compete for plant food so keep them back from the cucumber growing area. Sounds like you are doing the right things. Maybe increase the amount of compost, add some fertilizer and turn the soil deeper. Be sure to use fresh seed every year. We have also gone to container grown rather than in-ground and had success. Our containers are very large and deep. Cucumbers need lots of space.

[BobK]

Thanks for the advise

FYI I'm in Massachusetts - So we definitely have frozen ground several months a year.

[applestar]

Ok. Put that in your profile for future reference. It makes a big difference in diagnosing a problem.

[okie dodger]

Say hey, Bob K. from Mass. There are 3 words that I would highly recommend for your diminishing cukes: rotate, rotate, rotate. Yes, cucumbers are highly susceptible to various soil borne diseases, so planting in the same spot increases the chance these diseases are there from the previous years, and yields will suffer. And don't forget about the dreaded cucumber beetle. These little green bugs not only eat on the plants, but spread diseases as they enjoy their buffet. The healthier your plants are, the better chance of staving off these diseases. You seem to start out each new plot with great success, so that is what is working for you. Keep doing this, a new plot each year. Create a rotation plan for your veggies, and you will be planting in a new plot every year. A 4 year plan is recommended by most , but I have had success with a 3 year rotate. Tomatoes, squash and cukes seem to have more trouble with diseases here in Oklahoma, so I try to keep these on a 4-year plan. Have you ever grown cucumbers vertically? This the only way I plant cucumbers, and it has worked wonderfully. I use 52" x 6' cattle panels, but anything the plants can cling to will work. This keeps the plants off the ground, and the cukes will be straighter. If you wanted to plant in a container, you just set your trellis against the container. You train them to climb at first, but they will take over on their own. Your trellis should be high enough for the plants to grow at least 6' tall. Keep doing what you are doing, just do it in a different spot each year. Good luck!!!

[BobK]

Hi Okie D,

Yes, I always plant vertically. I built a 4-sided frame with a 4' x 1.5' footprint and 5' tall I have about 18 inches of wire netting run around the lowest level to keep Mr. Woodchuck out. I run levels of string about every 6"-10" around the sides to the top to give the cukes something to cling to. When it works its works but if the plants don't grow then nothing.

[applestar]

@Okie dodger, thanks for confirming my suspicions about soil-borne diseases. I’m limited to 3 year rotation here, but maybe I should try to push for 4 and see if I can obtain improved results.... I think one way to squeeze in another rotation might be to grow container/“bush” varieties and small-fruited parthenocarpic varieties.

@BobK, Let’s hear more details. First, are you growing same variety each time? Do you buy new seeds each year, or are they saved seed packets, or are they saved seeds from previous years harvest?

How do you describe “not growing” — do the seeds sprout well? Are you planting them the same way each year? How fast and big do the plants grow? What are their conditions when they stop/slow down growing? Do they reach maturity/blooming stage and start to set fruits?


...gardening to me is like a combination jigsaw puzzle and logic puzzle — and some of the pieces/clues are facing down. More pieces and clues you have facing up/available to examine, the better chances of fitting them all together.

[okie dodger]

Very well said, applestar!

[rainbowgardener]

Crop rotation was invented because in general anything grown in the same spot over and over is likely to do less well over time. It uses the same nutrients-- each plant has a slightly different profile of nutrients, some are nitrogen fixers, some are high nitrogen users, some need a lot of something else. So whatever the nutrients that plant uses tend to get depleted. And whatever the pests and diseases are that like that plant find it and accumulate.

You can work against this by keeping your soil and soil biome very well nourished with a complete spectrum of nutrients. I do this by continually adding compost, by keeping the soil mulched with a combination "green and brown" mulch (which is really just composting in place), and using compost tea. You can work against the pest and disease aspect by doing very diverse plantings. I plant in raised beds and each raised bed has a variety of things planted in it including garlic/onions/herbs and a succession of different plants through the seasons and companion plants. This makes it harder for the diseases and pests that like one plant to find it and accumulate.

All that said, it still helps to move things around to the extent that you can....For some of us with small-ish gardens that is somewhat limited.

[BobK]

I grow from plants I get at a local garden store (i.e. not from seeds.) I don't always get them from the same store. I get them when they're about 2 inches tall.

I grow the same 2 varieties each year; "Marketmore" and "Pickling" (I realize those might not be bonafide 'varieties', but that's what the tags say)

By 'not grow' I mean they grow to maybe 6 inches height over several weeks and then just stop. They don't die and rot but they look kind of withered.

[imafan26]

toI do have a small garden so I only can rotate plants a few feet. I do grow cucumbers in the same spot for years. I have more problems with pests finding them than soil issues. I do however add 3-4 inches of compost to each garden section with every planting. I do soil tests every 3 years. In my garden, I have only needed to add nitrogen for the last 8 years.

I think a soil test would be good to make sure your soil is balanced. I found a soil test very helpful in managing nutrients.

When I grow plants in pots, like tomatoes, that is another story. I don't test the soil in those pots and usually, I start with new potting soil and added fertilizer every time. I did try to reuse soil and I got poor growth and sometimes no yield at all.

I did try giving the reused soil a full dose of fertilizer. I had actually not realized how nutrient poor the old soil was and only after increasing the fertilizer by a significant amount, did my results get better.

Cucumbers don't need a lot of nitrogen but they need more phosphorus and potassium and they are fine in a pH range between 6.0-7.0. A fertilizer with a composition of 5-10-10 is good. Compost and manures contain slow nitrogen and good amounts of phosphorus. Potassium can be gotten with some greensand or a few bananas peels trench composted a few weeks before planting. If your yields were smaller over the years, I suspect you did not replace enough nutrients to match what was taken out. The hard thing about organic inputs is that the analysis will vary from batch to batch depending on the composition of the inputs. Most organic composts numbers are low to start with and you have to add significant amounts to correct for deficiencies.

[applestar]

@BobK, I’m going to have to wonder about cucumbers’ susceptibility to root disturbance if you are growing from started plants.

All cucurbits are touchy about their roots — minimum contact when handling seedlings, and NEVER let the roots of the little seedlings get dried out. If they are in too small containers and touch/push up against the sides/get root bound while in the seedling phase, they can get set back so that they will not grow. They are also sensitive to cold, and far too often, I see cold-sensitive plants starting to be displayed and sold way too early in the season, especially by the big-box stores.

I once asked at an independent garden center how they are selling cold sensitive seedlings so early in the season, and the woman gave a huge sigh, and told me they will be putting ALL the seedlings away in the greenhouse for the night, then have to wait until the morning temperature clears the threshold before bringing them out. They had a lot of plants out in the open. So be ware that you are not trying to plant them too early while the soil and air temp are still too cold.

Speaking of being out in the open — are you taking care to harden off plants that might not be quite ready to be out in the full sun/wind/rain? If the store had been keeping them in protected areas then they might need to be acclimated before setting out where they are to grow.

It’s possible to grow from well-tended plants — I’ve tried it myself to see just how difficult/easy it might be — but it really isn’t that difficult to grow cucumbers from seeds sown directly in the ground. So you may want to try both methods this year? We could talk about that if you would like more details — there is probably variation among the members in how we go about it.

[jal_ut]

" Perhaps some additive?"

Get some fertilizer from the seed store that says NPK on the label. Put it on according to the directions on the package. Do this at planting time. Here at this location June 1 is the time to plant cucumbers. I plant squash May 10, but the cukes don't like cool weather so they get planted later.

Rotate if you can. Add amendments like leaves and grass clippings. Good luck!