Indoor Garden 2018-2019 Revisited

[SQWIB]

February 11th-12th, 2019


Getting a bit of leaf curl, not sure if this is a problem or not, it may be related to the BER issue. The plants seem very healthy otherwise.



I am getting a lot of fruit set but still have some signs of BER





Peppers and Eggplants are growing slowly.



Topped Jetstar plants after three days.

[SQWIB]

February 14th-17th, 2019


Took all of the tomato plants out of the tent, fertilized with Jobes Organics Vegetable and Tomato 2 - 7 - 4, added some lime slurry, topped with potting soil, trimmed, placed back in the tent and watered real well.





The tomato plants are all loaded with fruit and the plants look very healthy.








I inspected the plants and BER is still a problem, I am leaving the fruit on the plants to see what happens. A lot of the newer fruit doesn't have what I would call typical BER but there is something going on, there looks like little tiny bruises forming on the fruit. Everything seems to be pointing to a calcium deficiency, curling leaves, BER.





My first thought would be stink bugs or some pest, but I don't see any insects, even the Aphids have seem to have dissipated.





Some of the earlier fruits I'm leaving on the plant.





Leaf curl on some of the larger leaves





The topped Jet Star tomato plants have really come back.



The tomato plants have to be watered heavily every single day or they will dry out.


Cleaned up my Parsley and chives





My Indoor Salad garden is doing real well.







Planted some Waltham Broccoli, Sun King Broccoli and Baby Bok Choy. This is my last attempt at growing Broccoli, this is actually the start of my 2019 gardening year.






I just keep thinking to myself, MAN! I have to put all this stuff away!

[applestar]

Ha! You really ARE growing tomatoes in the middle of winter. Hats off to you.

I think between the BER and leaf curl symptoms, and what you said

The tomato plants have to be watered heavily every single day or they will dry out.

It’s the inconsistent moisture levels that is causing the calcium uptake interruption.


...how about this — I’ve often thought about doing this but it’s a bit high on the difficulty scale for me and I have not tried it yet, but I think you are already doing most of the similar tinkering, so it will be easy for you:

— Set the tomatoes in a large shallow tub type of container, and arrange an ebb and drain watering system — pump/drain water in, let sit for up to 20-30 minutes, then drain/pump out remaining water in the tray. Pump/drain depends on where you position the reservoir — above or below.
— Set it up to do cycle twice or three times a day. This is a sort of system that carnivorous/bog plants enthusiasts sometimes set up. You can control the amount of moisture by how frequently it cycles.

At some point, though they will have to be Uppotted. But I know the difficulty with that is limitation in available space.


I think you will also find it’s somewhat easier to keep multiple large containers from drying out/watered when they are bottom watered together in a large tray...check out flood/drain pan for washers or for hot water heater...

To minimize chance of anaerobic root and biome asphyxiation in deeper containers, make vent holes or slits up the side of the container.

...I guess alternatively, you can set up automated drip irrigation — thats Another thing I haven’t tried, so I didn’t think of that as first choice.

[Gary350]

WOW that looks great. I have always wanted to grow tomatoes in winter. About 30 years ago I know a man that grew tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets. He drilled a circle of holes around the bucket near the bottom, bottom of bucket held water and wicked moisture to the soil on top. He only needed to water plants every 3 days with plants outside. Reservoir of water in bottom keeps soil on top from drying out and supplies water to plants when roots grow down that deep. I tried it one summer we often were gone 3 days camping over the weekends tomatoes did good setting in full sun at the edge of the garden. Only way I knew to give plants the good nutrients was to mix 1 shovel of garden soil with 5 gallons of water add pellet lime for BER stir well then use dirty water to water my 3 plants. Plants did good and grew good tomatoes outside in full sun. When temperature got 100 degrees I moved buckets under a shade tree they did good. Here is photo of bucket with black spots marking location of drill holes maybe you can use this idea to grow your plants.

[SQWIB]

Thanks Guys.
I am going to be a little proactive and work on it this week

I have kept the soil fairly moist the last few weeks, or at least I think I have lol. I am not convinced that watering is the problem but will start working on something this week. I haven't had any plants droop due to inadequate watering.
My current setup is the grow bags sitting in 5 gallon bucket bottoms (1.5” high). The problem is that the tomato plants are in 3 gallon grow bags and fit pretty snug in the 5 gallon drip trays so I can't really bottom water or even see if water has made it to the drip pan, theres no room.

When I water the plants sometimes the water comes out of the sides and lands in the drip tray, so even if I could see water in there, it really wouldn't be a true indicator of the plants being watered thoroughly. I have been going by the weight of the grow bag and using a finger testing for moisture.

Also the fact that I am using grow bags, increases evaporation. I could mulch the top with cardboard or something but watering is already a PITA.
If I go any bigger with drip trays, the plants don't fit, using a 5 gallon size gives me 4 plants in either direction.

I have a few options I may try tonight, Apple, I looked for trays and did find one that is 21.65 a 47.24 but what I have read that the dimensions are actually larger than in the description (50") so may not fit in the tent.
However, If my memory serves me right I think I have an old Rabbit Hutch tray that would be great. If I can find it!, I think it had a 24” x 48” tray, that would be perfect, if not I was going to cut a few more 5 gallon buckets about 6” high and see if that helps, if either don't pan out, I'll look into purchasing a few garden trays to sit the plants in.

I have thought of Global Buckets, earth buckets, wicking buckets, self watering setups and the like. I really want to try and Avoid using 5 gallons worth of media for a plant. I probably could come up with a wicking system using a 5 gallon bucket and the three gallon grow bag but overflow would be an issue without getting into an elaborate setup.
I really want to keep it simple, but if it don't work out using drip trays I'll try using 5 gallon buckets tied in together with a control bucket, this way I'll only have to water one bucket.
I can also do a tray with a Kerick float valve hooked into a control bucket, but don't think that will be needed.

Ebb and flow is out,
Also looked into one of those oasis automatic watering systems but there really is no kind of control.

[SQWIB]

February 19th, 2019


.... Later that day. Got home and found the tray, wooohooo!


Moved out the plants and wiped up the tent tub floor.






I took some photos when I had the plants out.



I haven't really been hand pollinating these much lately but they seem to have no problem pollinating on their own.



First set of tomatoes with BER and a few new tomatoes (fingers crossed).





I have had almost no flower drop and most of the flowers are pollinating with or without intervention.



Bottoms of the above picture, the fruit on the left has potting mix on it from my hands, so far no signs of BER or any thing else wrong with the fruit but it may be too soon to tell (rubbing my rabbit foot).



Soil on the tomato.

[applestar]

You weren’t kidding — it really is turning into a jungle! They look amazing. Well-fertilized.

...and you were right — that blue tray is a perfect fit.

Now, in case you ever put too much water in the tray and feel like some needs to be removed, my two best tools have been Turkey baster and one of those cheap kerosene oil/gas transfer hand pumps — I can picture it in my head but can’t remember what they are called — it looks like a giant turkey baster with 2 legs, has a red plastic accordion bulb with one way valve flaps so it sucks up with one tube and drains out by the other tube with each squeeze.

[Gary350]

You probably don't need to worry about too much water on your tomato plants. My tomato plants are often under water for 2 whole weeks and it never hurts them. Sometimes it is too wet to till so I plant them in mud it still never hurts the plants. I have never lost a tomato plant because of too much water. Maybe because plants have already been hardened off. You need pellet lime for BER.

[SQWIB]

February 20th, 2019


Yay, my first Indoor Red Tomato!!! or is it?


Its one of the earlier BER maters, I was taking a picture and it fell off the plant.




Well anyhow, the parsley is regrowing after the hack job.

[SQWIB]

I got tired of knocking over and spilling the humidifier so I removed it from the tent and will check the humidity in a few days.


February 22nd - 23rd, 2019

Finished up the salad greens to make room for my outdoor plants.








Some tomatoes that I am hoping don't get BER.





Checked the tent humidity without the humidifier and the readings seem about the same as when the humidifier was in the tent, I was a bit surprised but pleased.

[SQWIB]

Checked the tent humidity without the humidifier and the readings seem about the same as when the humidifier was in the tent, I was a bit surprised but pleased.



March 2nd - 3rd, 2019






March 5th, 2019

The plants are growing like crazy, with the exception of my Jimmy Nardello peppers, the JD's are very sickly looking and they will be trashed when this trial is over. The tomato plants have exploded and I have close to a hundred tomatoes and not one is without BER, not one!

I'm just about ready to call this a $1,200.00 fail as far as growing tomatoes and peppers indoors (definitely a fail for peppers). there's about 6 weeks left for the tent grow, so we will see if a miracle happens.
I will be trying this again next year, with a few changes, worst case scenario I can use the setup to get a jump start on the season.
One good thing is I have a few matured plants to go in the ground come planting time, well, I don't want to count my chickens yet but we'll see how they do outside.

Another bonus is that I can start a few plants and clone them for spring planting.



At the end of this trial I'll post my changes for next years indoor grow.



The parsley finally came back.

[applestar]

Wow, that is a big bummer about the tomatoes. BER is a tricky problem to solve when it’s happening to maturing fruits because it’s a calcium *uptake* issue at time of fruit development. So the ones that already have symptoms are lost — plant has already basically aborted those fruits due to insufficient calcium in the plant.

Your only hope is to remediate the suspect sources of calcium uptake blockage — lack of calcium in soil, low pH, uneven watering. Also, in containers, flushing the potting mix in case of excessive fertilization (too much foliage growth) and mineral build-up (that sounds opposite of what you need to do, I know — but some combinations tie-up calcium, so in the small/limited biome of containers, your only course of action might be to try to bring everything back to balance from scratch.) ...and hope that there is enough time left in the season for the current and future floral trusses to set fruits and develop to unblemished maturity.

I have heard that some form of calcium nitrate (I think?) does provide a band-aid solution — I think earthbox users add this to the reservoir, and I might have heard that micro-fine spray (for foliar feed — so spray underside of leaf) can help.

It’s also a problem that, when growing in outside beds, the susceptible ones are obvious since all the plants are growing in same conditions. I’m not familiar with the varieties you grew so I don’t know if any of them are particularly susceptible. I’ve mostly systematically removed a handful of varieties that have suffered BER (among all of the dozens of others that don’t) from my grow list.

HOWEVER, this year, I will be challenging myself to try to grow one or two sausage-shaped, large fruited paste varieties (which are almost always BER susceptible) in specialty prepared environment — probably a SI for anti-drought moisture control, though it might be a single small bed since I’m not as experienced with growing in SIP’s and other factors might creep in — along with Blush which also has been susceptible.

I will be growing Totem F1 this season since my SIL gifted me with a packet of seeds, so maybe I should take extra pre-caution in preparing the containers for that one as well.....

[SQWIB]

My totem F1 plants are doing great but eventually show signs of BER.


I have tried a watering regiment bottom watering every day to keep soil moist.

All the research I have done says that a Foliar spray does nothing for calcium uptake. (However I don't believe everything I read on the internet, even if it comes from a credible source)
Some nutrients do not move easily once inside the leaves so they don’t get to where they are needed eg iron, manganese and calcium. When calcium entering a leaf it will not be transported to developing fruits so it won’t prevent blossom end rot (BER) in tomatoes. Calcium entering roots can prevent BER..



by Dr. Curtis E. Swift, Colorado State Area Extension Agent

The use of a foliar spray is a common recommendation for the prevention of blossom end rot. A one percent (1%) calcium chloride (8 lbs. of calcium chloride per 100 gallons of water) has been thought to be beneficial. However, Drs. Hodges and Steinegger, Extension Specialists with the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, report calcium does not move from leaves to the fruits.
Thus, foliar sprays of calcium won't correct blossom end rot. Tomato fruits do not have openings in the epidermis (skin) through which calcium can be absorbed. Contrary to past belief the direct application of calcium as a spray, based on information from Hodges and Steinegger, is ineffective.

The addition of limestone, gypsum or crushed eggshells to the soil well before transplanting is recommended in some states to overcome the soil calcium deficiency. The use of calcium sulfate (gypsum) at the rate of two pounds per 100 square feet of soil area is recommended in some areas.

Research by Taylor, Locascio and Alligood found the form of calcium applied to the soil does make a difference on Ca uptake.

The addition of calcium sulfate (CaSO4) resulted in higher soil Ca concentrations than when calcium nitrate [Ca(NO3)2], calcium chloride (CaCl2), or calcium thiosulfate were applied to the soil (listed in descending order of benefit). They also found the addition of potassium (K) reduced the uptake of calcium resulting in more problems with blossom-end rot.

In high K soils as are found in much of Colorado, using a complete fertilizer containing K will contribute to problems with BER.
Liming is recommended in areas with low pH (acid) soils. The application of up to two cups of lime per plant is recommended in North Carolina. When used lime needs to be worked into the soil 12-inches deep. The addition of lime or gypsum is not, however, recommended in Western Colorado. For a more in-depth discussion on Western Colorado soils, refer to the Web Pages on this topic.

Maintaining the proper balance of potassium, phosphorus and other soil nutrients and avoiding excessive growth due to over-fertilization with nitrogen is recommended.

Excess levels of ammonium (NH4--N), magnesium, potassium and sodium have been reported to reduce the availability of calcium. English et al., report the use of nitrate nitrogen (NO3- - N) stimulates Ca uptake while ammonium nitrate (NH4- - N) reduces the uptake of CA. A soil test should be conducted to help determine what needs to be added and what should not be added to your garden soil.


My last ditch effort is Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate. I was going to try Calcium Chloride but was worried about salt.

I may pull all the plants, strip the ( noticeable BER) fruits, flush the pots and start watering with the Calcium Sulfate.

[applestar]

Ah ha. Your research is more thorough than mine — as mentioned, I’ve simply stopped growing varieties that disappointed me with BER since all the varieties around the affected plants were doing fine.

As for foliar spray, I’ve always suspected that spraying anything thoroughly until dripping would inevitably create a ring of solution on the soil in the drip line of the plant ...where the most actively feeding roots are. So maybe THATS how the anecdotally beneficial calcium uptake is occurring?

[SQWIB]

March 6th, 2019

The Jimmy Nardello peppers were evicted yesterday, I just got sick to my stomach looking at these things... absolutely disgusting. I was afraid if these were left in the tent any longer that they would infest the other plants.



This is a comparison of one that was in the tent (left) and one that was under my Fluorescent shop lights (Right) and the one on the right was the runt. Just gets me sick.
I was going to wash the plant, remove from the pot and wash off the soil and repot with potting mix but these guys were too far gone.



The one on the right has even put on fruit.



They were put out in the 16°F cold to seal their fate.
The plant and potting mix will be dumped in the fire-pit when making bio-char.



Trying to clone some Cilantro, Some say it can't be cloned and others say it can, we will see.



The fruit production on the Gardeners delight is quite impressive, just a shame it has for nothing thus far!

[applestar]

How tall is your Totem F1 at full maturity, and what size container do you have it in? I’m trying to figure out if it fits in the micro dwarf category. ...while we’re at it, diameter of typical fruit and possibly weight, too? THANKS

[SQWIB]

About 12"

One I just gave away was in a one gallon pot.
Not sure if the one gallon pot is a "nursery trade gallon" pot. (.75 gallon).
I have another in a three gallon grow bag that I am pretty sure is a true three gallon size.
The one gallon size is adequate and the plant in that pot done better than the other, coincidence, I don't know, but save yourself some space and potting mix and go with no more than a two gallon pot.

[applestar]

Thanks @SQWIB I really think that puts it in micro dwarf territory, but with added bonus of somewhat larger fruits than cherries according to some previous growers.

Now to find out if I like the flavor.... (I might try and see if I can make some crosses with it, too, though I have not been successful with the teeny tiny micro dwarf blossoms so far ...hmm... I need to look up if there are any restrictions on that — typically not, but they might have incorporated a male-sterile gene in the hybrid)

[SQWIB]

Correction on plant size.

Posting from phone sorry if the images are not oriented correctly.
The one I gaveve away was definitely taller but no taller than 12"
Hope this helps.

[SQWIB]

March 7th, 2019




March 8th, 2019

Diluted a 1/4 cup of calcium sulfate dihydrate in a few gallons of water. I'll probably repeat the calcium feeding next week in the same amount.




March 9th, 2019

Sad day in the grow tent, I removed all of the plants, removed all of the tomatoes with BER, staked and tied up the plants, trimmed a bit and placed back in the tent.












To make some room in the grow tent, I gave my brother the chives, one of the Totem F1 plants and put the other Totem F1 and parsley in the basement bathroom.

[SQWIB]

March 14th, 2019


The tomato plants are growing nicely, tons of flowers and no noticeable leaf curl. I will have to cut them back soon because I'm almost out of adjusting room for the lights. I also neglected and almost lost my Cilantro plant.

[SQWIB]

March 18th, 2019

The tomato plants are growing nicely and have been setting fruit throughout the week. I got a few flowers on the eggplants, I'm not really expecting fruiting or maturing fruit on the eggplants in the tent, I'm just trying to nurse them through until I can transplant outside.

The Tomato plants are getting about three gallons of water every 24 hours and I will probably increase to 3.5 gallons per day later this week. The tub is working out great and I never realized how much plants transpire when the lights are on until this last week, the entire garage is like a sauna. I guess given the fact that only 5% of the water taken up by roots remains in the plant and the rest is loss due to transpiration.
There is definitely no need for a humidifier.

I trimmed the plants a tad then diluted in water and fed some "Jobes Organics Vegetable and Tomato 2 - 7 - 4" @ 1/4 cup and some "Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate" @ 1/4 cup.

Raised the lights a bit, they're almost maxed out.




What does a $1,200.00 tomato look like?

[SQWIB]

March 21st, 2019

The aphids have spread to the pepper seedlings so everything has been getting treated with a Hydrogen Peroxide spray.
I have one tomato with signs of BER, I was getting pretty excited about the grow until this discovery. The Totem F1 tomatoes seem unaffected on this last batch.






March 22nd, 2019

I have been checking the tomatoes every day, praying that the BER is almost gone. I do have a glimmer of hope with these Totem F1 tomato plants. At the least I know next year I can grow a dozen of these in the tent on shelves and get a decent tomato crop.




The plants are growing like crazy, this picture is 4 days after the picture with me standing inside the tent (March 18th), you can see there is no room to stand in there now.




Plenty of tomatoes considering I have been a bit laxed with the the robotic bee so the fruit set could be better.




So far only one tomato has obvious BER, I get so anxious every day I check the tomatoes for BER. The tomato on the left is the one with the BER, you can see it barely at 7-8 o' clock

[SQWIB]

March 22nd-24th, 2019

I fed the plants with this evenings watering, 4 scoops of "Jobes Organics Vegetable and Tomato 2 - 7 - 4" and 1 scoop of "Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate". I'm not sure what size the scoop is but I'm guessing about 3 tablespoons.

I had to trim everything back again Saturday. Some of the tomatoes are near Golf ball size.




Got a tomato off of the Totem that was actually pretty good, what's crazy is that this was the only mater on the plant that showed signs of BER, I just cut that off and it was fine. Now I'm down to $600.00 per/tomato.

[SQWIB]

March 25th, 2019

I was checking the plants real good today and noticed a few red tomatoes, I need to be more on top of these plants, I had about three that were past rip and tossed.
These are the Gardeners delight and no BER. You can see a few to the right that were also no good.





Top 2 out of this batch were past ripe, they were fed to the rehab turtles.





Keepers





When I was grabbing for the over ripe tomato it appeared that half was green and half was over ripe so I yanked this guy off by mistake thinking it was a BER tomato... Ooops!
At first I was a bit upset and thought to myself, "Wow, this may not be a FAIL after all"! (Looking at the bigger picture of course).





The over ripe tomato was here. The one I pulled above and the one below are about the same size.




The gardeners delight was really good, much better than the totem, but to be fair, the totem may not have been at its ripest.
Although this is supposed to be a cherry type tomato, it's a bit more acidic and not as sweet as say a sweet 100 but it does have a great tomato flavor like your slicing tomatoes.

I can honestly say that this is the first time in March I had a great tasting tomato!

[SQWIB]

March 26th, 2019

The tomato plants are a bit out of control, they're leaning to one side, I'll do my best to keep them in check. I got to try a few more tomatoes today and the Totems are sweeter and not as acidic but not as flavorful as the Gardeners delight. I prefer the Gardeners delight for snacking.






I had to raise the eggplants up onto milk crates as the tomato plants absorbed the eggplants. I was pretty happy to see this little guy. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[prplchkj]

Wow SQWIB, impressive. For a minute I was contemplating putting some tomato plants in my garage (the squirrels made my tomato test a few years ago far too depressing) then I saw that you were using humidifiers and a ton of other equipment. I got intimidated.

I am mildly curious...would daylight bulbs in the 5000K range work with an indoor vegetable garden?

Edit: when I hit reply I, for some reason, suddenly saw the tomato update. Wow.

[SQWIB]

I really haven't updated this page much. I had issues with my website and stopped posting.
I think your 5000 k bulbs would work, the only problem I see is getting light to the entire plant. Maybe if you used several around the plant.
I have actually seen some folks use side lights.
Humidifier is not needed, the plants transpire so much, my garage is like a sauna.
Vent and vent fan is not needed unless you were growing in an enclosed place.
I would suggest using an oscillating fan.

[SQWIB]

Last post for the indoor garden, I didn't want to leave this thread hanging.


March 27th - April 2nd, 2019

I noticed that the water pan was still significantly wet after 24 hours so I cut back on the watering to 2 gallons every 24 hours. I did not fertilize the plants this past week but will give them something later this week.





The Gardener's delight has been a steady producer the last few weeks. So far I still only have one eggplant.













Some Gardener's Delights to snack on at work.






April 19th, 2019









April 23rd - May 5th, 2019

I have been neglecting my indoor garden the last few weeks but I did get a decent haul on the 24th of April and the 5th of may, I decide to feed them one last time before I pull the plug. They haven't been fed for at least three weeks.













I called it quits on the indoor garden as I was getting ripe tomatoes on a few of the outdoor plants already. I couldn't bear to terminate these plants so I tossed them on the deck, I can't see them doing too well and they will probably succumb to a fungus or early blight due to the density of the foliage, but I'm not going to worry about it.




May 18th, 2019
Everything is boxed up and put away for the next indoor grow. I'll probably compost the plants this weekend

[dobro13]

Great thread.

[thisgardener1]

Great thread. And SQWIB, that's a bountiful yield! To think that you've been neglecting 'em tomatoes and they still did well!!! Great job man!