Why does a low spot that holds 2" of water not grow plants?

[Gary350]

Farmers field across the road has a low spot it holds water in spring for about 2 or 3 months it looks like a 2" deep pond about 50 foot diameter. When water dries up and farmer plants his crop seeds all grow but the plants in the use to be wet spot are very short like they need fertilizer.

My grandfathers farm had a low spot about 100 ft diameter with water about 2 or 3 inches deep. Water dried up and soil was ready to plant along with the rest of the field about May 20 every summer. Seeds all grew corn in the whole 40 acre field was 7 ft tall but the use to be wet spot corn was always 2 ft tall.

My garden has a wet spot south east corner. Soil is always dry enough to till and plant by first or second week of May but plants do not grow well there. Spring this year I threw a lot of nitrogen fertilizer & 15-15-15 fertilizer & calcium in the low spot corn in that spot was short about 30" tall, the other corn was 6 ft tall. Fertilizer did not seem to help corn grow.

Grass and weeds don't even like to grow in that low spot even though that spot is dry and soil looks the same as all the other soil in the field.

Why does a low spot that holds water for about 2 or 3 months not grow plants?

[SQWIB]

Compaction, less microbial activity, less oxygen?
Just spitballing.

[rainbowgardener]

Lots of water takes nutrients with it when it drains, just like water flushes the nutrients out of containers. But I agree, when it stays flooded for so long, lots of the life of the soil probably drowns, microbial, but maybe also earth worms, roly polys and other detritovores,

[imafan26]

Phytophthora thrives in poorly drained soils. I holds water for months and that means it does not drain well. It is not a fertilizer issue, the roots need air space to survive or they will rot. Phytophthora are water molds that live in poorly drained soils. Interestingly they kill the most plants in summer. I have this issue in the herb garden and it is why I can only grow mostly shallow perennials or annuals in some places of the garden. The soil, once contaminated, will have phytophthora for years. Usually plants do o.k. until the roots go below 10 inches deep, then the whole plant will wilt and die within a week as the roots rot. lemon grass grown in phytophthora infested soil will grow for a while and as it grows larger and the roots go deeper, it will start to bloom. Normally, lemon grass rarely blooms. The base of the plant will soon show signs of rot. None of the roots can be saved since once the roots are infected, they continue to rot even if they are transplanted.

https://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74133.html

[Gary350]

Online information about compaction says, not to till soil when it is too wet. It also says soil needs to be tilled many times when it is dry to put oxygen in the soil. It says to till in lots of, organic material, calcium, gypson.

Online info about Phytophthora talks a lot about trees. Soil needs to be drained so water does not stand and I should hill the soil up 8 to 10 inches when planting a garden.

2 things that I forgot to mention are, when we moved here 2.5 years ago there had been a very large tree in the problem area of the garden. The tree stump & roots were rotted and mostly very soft rotten wood so I tilled it into the soil. Wood basically broke into saw dust size pieces and vanished into the soil. The other problem is a row of 50 foot tall pine trees on 3 sides of the garden, east, south, west, 40 trees that shade the garden until sun is high up in the sky, shade until about mid May.

Online information says, wood ash will break up clay & hard compact soil, organic material & sand is good for drainage.

Construction zone behind the house has dug out the soil 2 ft below my yard that may help with garden soil drainage.

The garden swamp photo was spring 18 months ago, tomatoes under water for 8 days is never a problem, tomato plants do very well in mud & completely under water for many many days.

[jal_ut]

"Farmers field across the road"

Well guess that is his problem. Best if you don't worry about it?

[SQWIB]

Jal_ut

I don't think he's worried about the farmer, he's concerned about his garden, he just gave three similar instances, one of which is his.

[imafan26]

Phytophthora can affect any plant that puts down deeper roots. Mostly it is trees, but it has also been shrubs as well. Chili peppers (Hawaiian chilies can grow up to 8 ft tall), and lemon grass have been the ones that have been most affected. Shallow rooted plants and plants that tolerate wet soils do better. Phytophthora can survive in soils upwards of 20 years. Removing the contaminated soil and improving drainage or raised beds help.

The herb garden sits in a low spot of the garden. It does not rain often, but when it does, it can flood the garden for a couple of weeks at a time. Culantro, ginger, horseradish are the most tolerant. Most of the plants that don't tolerate it like lavender are in pots instead.

https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/ ... hrubs.aspx

[Gary350]

Phytophthora can affect any plant that puts down deeper roots. Mostly it is trees, but it has also been shrubs as well. Chili peppers (Hawaiian chilies can grow up to 8 ft tall), and lemon grass have been the ones that have been most affected. Shallow rooted plants and plants that tolerate wet soils do better. Phytophthora can survive in soils upwards of 20 years. Removing the contaminated soil and improving drainage or raised beds help.

The herb garden sits in a low spot of the garden. It does not rain often, but when it does, it can flood the garden for a couple of weeks at a time. Culantro, ginger, horseradish are the most tolerant. Most of the plants that don't tolerate it like lavender are in pots instead.

https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/ ... hrubs.aspx

Roots can not go deep in my yard soil is only 2 feet deep then it is solid rock. Construction site behind the house soil was 4" to 6" deep in most places, they bull dozed all the soil away right up to my property line, that proves my soil is 2 ft deep. They dynamites sewer line ditches all summer 20 feet deep in solid rock for 3 ft diameter cement sewer pipes. I guess that is why wind blew 1 of the pine trees over last winter roots are not deep. Where houses are built was once farm land, soil seems to be very good soil for TN. Top soil is about 5" deep & below that soil is a different color and harder soil.

[digitS']

My soil certainly drains well - it is from glaciers that were in the nearby mountains, thousands of years ago.

One garden season, the neighbor had a leaky 4" irrigation pipe valve. Several times a week, a puddle would form near my garden and I asked him if I could run a pvc pipe slightly below ground level to move that water into my garden.

I dug out one part of a bed to about 6" and planted watercress. The little pond would empty of water for a day or two each week but the soil would stay moist. The watercress grew wonderfully! Gary, I wonder if you could use your low spot for watercress or something like that.

Unfortunately (for my purposes ), the neighbor replaced his leaky valve after that year ... and, I had to fill in my little pond and grow something more conventional in the location.

Steve

[imafan26]

Having hardpan or solid rock 2 ft down may be compounding the issue. If it rains enough to puddle, the hard rock will impede drainage and promote root rot.

[jal_ut]

quote: " The other problem is a row of 50 foot tall pine trees on 3 sides of the garden, east, south, west, 40 trees that shade the garden until sun is high up in the sky,"

Oh yes, the trees have roots out under your garden area and they suck up the water and nutrients so the plants don't do well. I had the same problem when I first came to this two acre lot, I planted a row of trees all around the place spaced about every 20 feet. Oh it was nice, but when the trees got some size to them, they sucked up the water and nutrients from the garden plot and my garden would not do well. So out came the chain saw. All the trees out by the garden got sawed down. I left the ones out front away from the garden. Now my garden will grow. Have fun!

[jal_ut]

PS, you need to decide, do I want trees or do I want a garden?

[applestar]

@Gary350, I think it might be worth deep mulching. Not the entire low area, but the mounded wide rows you have been making. By mulching, you promote microbial activity in the boundary between soil surface and the mulch, and this also encourages compost earthworms to proliferate. This way, you could continue to till the paths, if you prefer, and excess moisture in the paths can evaporate without hindersnce. After the ground dries, you *could* mulch the paths, but if you get as much rain as you say, it might be best to leave the paths uncovered....

You would not want to till in the mulch since that may result in nutrient time-up, so I think the timing to spread the mulch on the mounded rows for you would be when you have deemed the row sufficiently tilled and dug around to be weed free and allowed to grow. If you get some good composted manure or compost with resident earthworms, that would also help to “seed” the soil, or your can start a compost pile and that should attract them. Or considering the time of the year, you could get free horse or chicken manure right now to pile in the garden to weather and age for the winter months.

You can also sow seeds or plant transplants in mulched rows by pushing the mulch aside to bare soil. Pull the mulch back around -but not touching- your plants after they grow above the mulch.

[Gary350]

I'm not sure you can see this in the pictures but pine tree needles are much thicker in the garden close to the trees and in the wet corner. Closer to the garage there are less pine needles on the ground. Pine needles are high acid at first I was thinking this could be part of the reason plants grow so short in the wet corner of the garden. But now I realize pine needles in the rest of the garden are no problem at all. I tilled a lot of rotten tree roots into the soil in the bad area near the wet corner. I am going to put a whole bag of calcium on the garden soon as pine needles stop falling.